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DOT Rejects Spirit Colombia App. Sides With AA  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25365 posts, RR: 49
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 3627 times:

As follow up to previously closed threads, DOT has rejected Spirits request for 14 weekly Columbia frequencies to be used between FLL-Barranquilla and Bogota.

As part of the pleadings the DOT sided with American Airlines whom prior to Spirits application held 14 unused US-Colombia frequencies. Subsequent to Spirits application to strip AA of those dormant frequencies, AA presented plans and began selling new Colombia services effective December 13th making use of the 14 frequencies.

The DOT did however place AA on notice that if it fails to make full use of its allocated frequencies in the future they would revert back to the department.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474879_web.pdf


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3501 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
The DOT did however place AA on notice that if it fails to make full use of its allocated frequencies in the future they would revert back to the department.

Good to hear. This will force AA to fly them year-round. AA has a history of hoarding frequencies to limit capacity and then make up stupid excused like "there is no demand" when the reality is that the demand is more than there. Though I would not be surprised to see AA look at doing something else with the seven frequencies that are going to more mIA-BOG/MDE service.



a.
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25365 posts, RR: 49
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3243 times:

Yes the DOT decision was fair while putting AA on notice. It shows the departments strong desire in seeing US air service rights used to their full potential and willingness to reallocate them while clearly also going against AA's opinion that its Colombia frequencies were grand fathered and not subject to reallocation.

In the same light, the DOT decision bodes well for AA in its own route case trying to strip United of 7 unused US-Argentina frequencies to commence ORD-EZE service this coming fall.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 2):

In the same light, the DOT decision bodes well for AA in its own route case trying to strip United of 7 unused US-Argentina frequencies to commence ORD-EZE service this coming fall.

They don't need to strip them from UA, though. There are now 21 unused frequencies thanks to an expanded USA-Argentina agreement. Though if they don't get them from UA, that means they can't do ORD-EZE and expand MIA-EZE (to 18x weekly) and add MIA-COR (3x weekly).



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3151 times:

somehow I'd be very surprised if AA added all that much capacity at one time. No other US airline right now seems to be jumping on the new frequencies to Argentina - and we are talking about AA which is in a "status quo" mode w/ regards to their network size.

User currently offlineA300AA From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 394 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3075 times:

Its not going to be easy to fill a 737 to MDE 3 times a week, specially during low season.

Also ex AA BAQ employees filed a new law suit against American to be rehired and to get paid for the period AA ceased operations there until now. Its not going to be easy for AA to go back.

Also rumors that BOG will open positions for Flight Attendants to cover these new frequencies.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3054 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 4):
somehow I'd be very surprised if AA added all that much capacity at one time.

I wouldn't. The additional MIA-EZE flights, if they happen, will operate during daylight on a seasonal basis (December- April and June-August), using planes that would otherwise be sitting on the ground doing nothing. Cordoba is a market they've been eyeying for a while and can finally enter. Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, though, with a 757. The thing that may speed plans for Cordoba up, or slow them down, is how Copa does in the market.

Quoting A300AA (Reply 5):

Also ex AA BAQ employees filed a new law suit against American to be rehired and to get paid for the period AA ceased operations there until now. Its not going to be easy for AA to go back.

It is going to be very easy for AA to go back to BAQ. They can easily afford to settle any law suits, and won't let it get in the way. The backpay on those employees is pocket change for AA.

[Edited 2007-07-03 04:28:30]


a.
User currently offlineSOUTHAMERICA From Colombia, joined Dec 2003, 2497 posts, RR: 10
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2952 times:

Quoting A300AA (Reply 5):
Its not going to be easy to fill a 737 to MDE 3 times a week, specially during low season.

MDE-MIA sees a year-round load-factor of 71%. On high-season it reaches the higher 80s.

Based on how yields and loads behave for most of the US-LatAm routes, I believe it is safe to expect a positive result with these three additional frequencies.

Wether or not these frequencies have more potential on other routes to Colombia is another story.


SA.


User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2722 times:

Well, competition wise, it´s not the best decision. But the DOT probably just wanted to establish new, long-lasting service to Colombia (Spirit could have flown the routes for 5 months and then quit if they didn´t do well), so better be safe than sorry. What i do think was good was the little warning made to AA. They were really long-due to start new service.

I actually see the new BOG and MDE frequencies staying. The other markets are just too small for the time being, except for a combined PEI-CTG flight, which wouldn´t support anything more than 2x weekly (AV will be flying it daily soon, lots of competition).



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 2694 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 8):
. The other markets are just too small for the time being, except for a combined PEI-CTG flight, which wouldn´t support anything more than 2x weekly

AA believe MIA-PEI could support 3x weekly non-stop, and they are eyeing it for summer 2008.



a.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2506 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 9):
AA believe MIA-PEI could support 3x weekly non-stop, and they are eyeing it for summer 2008.

I believe that study was conducted before AV asked for daily frequiencies to Aerocivil, it´s different now (read the rest of the post pls).

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Columbia

It´s ColOmbia.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5910 posts, RR: 6
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2488 times:
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IMHO, I think if those Colombian frequencies aren't used...they should go to a Colombian carrier.

User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2467 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 10):
I believe that study was conducted before AV asked for daily frequiencies to Aerocivil, it´s different now (read the rest of the post pls).

No, it wasn't. AA is currently studying an MIA-PEI service. The idea was brought back up again just in the past few weeks.



a.
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2364 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 6):
I wouldn't. The additional MIA-EZE flights, if they happen, will operate during daylight on a seasonal basis (December- April and June-August), using planes that would otherwise be sitting on the ground doing nothing. Cordoba is a market they've been eyeying for a while and can finally enter. Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, though, with a 757.

not to be argumentative but if they add Cordoba until 2007 and they add MIA-EZE flights on a seasonal basis (perhaps as early as this winter), they won't be adding all the capacity at the same time. Even if they don't add more frequency to MIA-EZE this winter (which they may not since they are also adding ORD), they are not likely to add capacity to MIA next summer... and even if they did, they wouldn't start Cordoba as a new route during S. American winter.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2359 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 13):
not to be argumentative but if they add Cordoba until 2007 and they add MIA-EZE flights on a seasonal basis (perhaps as early as this winter), they won't be adding all the capacity at the same time. Even if they don't add more frequency to MIA-EZE this winter (which they may not since they are also adding ORD), they are not likely to add capacity to MIA next summer... and even if they did, they wouldn't start Cordoba as a new route during S. American winter.

Like I said, Cordoba probably won't happen until 2009, and there is nothing stopping them from adding it in the summer, which is a busy travel period for Miami-Argentina, though adding it during absolute peak - the winter - is smarter.

The added MIA-EZE flights could very well be added during the summer. Demand between Miami and Argentina peaks during December/January and again in July/August (i.e. before it went year-round, MIA-MVD was opearting Nov-Mar, Jul-Aug). July-August is a busy time for Miami-Argentina travel, but not for general USA-Argentina travel.

I agree that they probably won't add more MIA-EZE capacity this winter, because they want to concentrate on getting ORD-EZE off the ground. Though the extra MIA-EZE capacity is something that can be added very quickly, since it will use planes that otherwise sit on the ground.

[Edited 2007-07-05 02:16:31]


a.
User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 733 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2304 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 14):
I agree that they probably won't add more MIA-EZE capacity this winter, because they want to concentrate on getting ORD-EZE off the ground. Though the extra MIA-EZE capacity is something that can be added very quickly, since it will use planes that otherwise sit on the ground.

Then why don't they use the plane that is sitting on the ground for something... anything...

MIA-SFO could sure use the extra lift. Even with 1 x 767 and 2 x 757 those flights are usually jammed and we end up sending people via LAX, DFW and STL.

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2288 times:

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 15):

Then why don't they use the plane that is sitting on the ground for something... anything...

They pretty much do. You have a 772 each to DFW, ORD, and LAX; a 763 each to SFO, BOG, POS, and DFW, and two 763s to LAX. When they add a daylight MIA-EZE flight, one of those flights will have to be downgauged.



a.
User currently offlineRCS763AV From Colombia, joined Jun 2004, 4395 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2203 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
The idea was brought back up again just in the past few weeks.

Avianca´s application was less than a week ago, so AA will have to take longer to study the route.



Les escribo desde el frío de mi verde altiplano.
User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32781 posts, RR: 72
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2174 times:

Quoting RCS763AV (Reply 17):
Avianca�s application was less than a week ago, so AA will have to take longer to study the route.

I don't think AA cares. Avianca is simply planning on increasing MIA-CTG-PEI service to daily. They aren't going to be flying MIA-PEI non-stop, which is something AA is considering doing with the 3 frequencies that will, for now, go to MIA-MDE.



a.
User currently offlineRICARIZA From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 2391 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 1939 times:

Well, I guess spirit is betting now on the Civil Aeronautics to approve BOG-FLL to Aires. I understand that Aires plans to serve that route codesharing or some sort of agreement with Spirit.


I miss ACES, I am proud of AVIANCA & I am loyal to AMERICAN
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25365 posts, RR: 49
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 2 days ago) and read 1714 times:

Looks like Spirit is not giving up... launching a rare appeal to DOTs decision.

Quote:
Spirit Wants DOT To Reverse Rejection On Colombia Bid
07/12/2007

Spirit asked the U.S. Transportation Dept. to reverse its decision, made late last month, rejecting the carrier's bid for 14 currently idle U.S.-Colombia frequencies belonging to American.

Spirit argues that American "has for at least four years restricted capacity in this market by warehousing over a third of its Colombia frequencies." The rejection of its application "undermines the Department's duty and statutory requirement to promote competition and low-fare service, and instead rewards and encourages misuse of these limited rights by incumbent carriers."

In its decision, DOT said it is not department policy to revoke dormant frequencies from an incumbent carrier if the airline has firm plans to use them, but it is also not policy "to permit valuable operating rights to remain unused."

Full article. (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...+Reverse+Rejection+On+Colombia+Bid

The DOT document
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/475407_web.pdf



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
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