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10 Pitches Of Support For YNG Scasd  
User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3144 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3267 times:

10 Pitches Of Support For YNG SCASD

Well this caught me out of the blue today. I didn't realize there was this much penmanship at work for YNG. I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:

Bazetta Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474937_web.pdf

Boardman Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474936_web.pdf

Elizabeth Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474888_web.pdf

Poland Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474886_web.pdf

Hartford Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474885_web.pdf

Eric Augustein - Village of Beloit Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474882_web.pdf

Vernon Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474881_web.pdf

John W. Smith - Mayor Village Sebring Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474880_web.pdf

Steve Bowser Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474878_web.pdf

Milton Township Pitches For YNG
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/474876_web.pdf

48 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3244 times:

SCASD is to develop the business economy of a city. Enabling people to fly to see Mickey or the beach isn't in the business/economic interest. If all they're doing is pitching a SCASD for more flights to see Mickey Mouse, the beaches, etc. it is an abuse of the system. If they were asking for flights to DC, Chicago, NYC, or some other business center I'd be all fine with it. These outlying community leaders are asking for SCASD in the business interest of the area, mentioning unemployment and the such in their letters. More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.

User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3241 times:

Quoting KarlB737 (Thread starter):
I knew they were seeking something more. I know they want more from Allegiant. The confidence factor that needs to come from Allegiant appears to be absent at the present time. I hope however that either through SCASD or heavy negotiations with Allegiant or Spirit that something develops after these writings:

Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service? I thought they wanted to get connecting service through a hub.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
More links to the beaches of Florida, Vegas, etc. are NOT going to help the local economy/unemployment... and if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.

I decided to pull up their SCASD application again.

Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

Quote:
The Youngstown-Warren
Regional Airport is requesting a $800,000 SCASDP grant to initiate a 50-90 seat regional jet
service at YNG, by developing a revenue guarantee program to support the initial phase (first 12
months) of air service. This revenue guarantee program will be designed to attract non-stop air
service to the hub of a major U.S. airline in the Midwest or Southern US., by minimizing the
initial business risk that a carrier will face in entering a new market, rather than simply
subsidizing air service that is unlikely to be self-sufficient. Thus, the revenue guarantee will be a
short-term program tailored to launch the new regional jet service by mitigating the airline’s
initial risk.

http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/467601_web.pdf



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Actual Grant Link:
http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/467601_web.pdf

This is great news for YNG - Youngstown-Warren Regional as they look to get back into the the business of providing business flights in the region! This grant calls for $800,000 from the DOT, as well as about $1 million in local funds to provide a $1.8 million dollar grant to help assist the first 3 years of service for a business carrier to fly 3-5 daily flights on a regional jet to Chicago, Cincinnati, or Charlotte. In the first 2 years, the airline would lose about $800,000, which YNG would pickup; but then make a $500,000 for the profit come year 3 w/o the assistance of YNG.

YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH. The survey had a small % response to the actual local employer base and it came out to about 98,000 passengers a year to fly a business route, after they did all the math.

With a 93% passenger load for the first half of 2007 for Allegiant Air; things look promising!



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3223 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):

Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

In that case... more power to them. Although with as close as they are to CAK, CLE, and PIT I don't really think the gov't will go along with this one.


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 3220 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 4):
YNG did a survey to local business and they said 34% wanted flights to ORD, 21% to CLT, 13% to CVG, and 13% to CMH.

Who in their right mind would fly YNG-CMH. With the check in times and whatnot you can drive it quicker.  Confused I can see ORD, CLT, and even CVG... but CMH is sooooo close!


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 3201 times:

I think the best thing going for YNG is that they have been awarded grants in the past; (03 and 05) and those grants were successful in bringing in carriers. The other thing that they have going for them that other airports do not is that they actually took the time to send out a survey to thousands of local businesses to get their imput on whether or not they'd fly YNG and where they'd like to fly to if they were interested.

The survey came up with this stat: Therefore, area businesses responding estimate that approximately 63% of their company’s airline tickets would be purchased to fly from YNG. For an area with a 600,000 MSA Population; that is pretty darn good and esp. something a legacy carrier will be looking for! Fingers crossed YNG gets this award, because it has proven that people in the Valley will fly if their are flights.




I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 3181 times:

Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
Looks like I am right, they want regional jet flights to a hub

Particularly they want UA. I live in the area and it has been talked about, however I can't see UA coming here.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3176 times:

No chance of UA service to ORD, or AA for that matter. Due to the scarcity of slots at ORD, they are not going to "waste" them on service to YNG.

It would be interesting to see how that "survey" was worded, it should come as no surprise that ORD came out first. If they listed NYC as a choice, it would probably come out on top. There is always a difference between what people want and what people actually end up using.

A 50 seat RJ is a tough sell without revenue guarentees. Sure if they want to throw enough cash at it for a year then fine. Too bad they couldn't get XJ to restart Saab service to DTW which could potentially be the best bet for service. The proximity of CAK, CLE, & PIT doesn't help at all.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3161 times:

ATLAaron, that UA Rumor can be blamed on myself. I had heard from various people about Colgan's interest in YNG, but that was just in the preliminary talks. Those talks died off without any money guarentee's. I still think UA and YNG can get something if YNG gets the money here.

And PSU.DTW.SCE: That NWA Route got so bad that on some flights there would be 2-5 people on board right before the service ended. DTW was not a popular route for us in YNG.

ORD always did pretty darn well, but I think if included, DC would be the top on everyone's business list! I, of course, want this grant badly to get this airport back on the map. Allegiant is doing well, and I'm sure business flights at a decent fare will do well too!

Want more on YNG - Read my successful blog!
http://yngair.wordpress.com

[Edited 2007-07-03 07:05:14]


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3149 times:

YNGguins, I don't know if you noticed the chart you linked from the grant. Cincinanati? Someone didn't proof read and added an extra "a".

Its been years since I did the old ORD-CAK-YNG flights. I've been glad to see the area picking up again.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently onlineKarlB737 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 3144 posts, RR: 10
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 3127 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 1):
if that is the real spirit of YNG's SCASD application it should be torn up.



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 2):
Isn't the YNG application for a revenue guarantee for regional jet service?



Quoting FATFlyer (Reply 3):
they want regional jet flights to a hub, not Allegiant or Spirit.

I should have seperated the fact that on the one hand the airport has applied for the SCASD grant for the regional jet service and in a separate effort have hopes for more Allegiant service that has nothing to do with the SCASD application. Thoughts for something from Spirit Airlines as well is a seperate interest coming from not the airport but many interested individuals in favor of increased YNG air service. Again these thoughts have nothing to do with the SCASD application. I did not in my original post make these specifics clear. My error.


User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 3117 times:

I used to be on those Mesaba flights at times into YNG, when they continued on to SCE.
Part of the problem was that the service was poorly timed. YNG was always thrown in as a tag-on, or a stop-over.

One of the flights went DTW-YNG-SCE-DTW, with another going DTW-SCE-YNG-DTW. After they made all SCE flights nonstop to DTW, then I believe CAK was added in as a stop for a while before they terminated the service, just prior to 9/11. I believe NW/XJ pulled out on 9/8/01. They never picked up more than a few passengers on the stopover flights whenever I came in via SCE.

I would imagine that UA/Colgan IAD Saab service has a better chance than UA ORD RJ service. Lower operating costs, lower breakeven load factor, and not worrying about the reluctance to pull slots from other ORD flights.Restarting with turboprop service is a lot less risky than an RJ, and likely wouldn't eat through the revenue guarentee as quickly.

I don't think Spirit is interested in YNG either, its just not their niche. They generally don't fly routes less than daily, and they are in full growth mode out of FLL to the Carribean & Central America. Again, its the allocation of resources, and NK hasn't really gone into to small markets to capture leisure passengers. They focus on the larger destinations to capture leisure passengers.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 3109 times:

FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG? I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.

Spirit Air has talked with YNG in the past, and I even went out to do a survey on my blog for one of the supposed aviation experts at YNG; he was supposed to deliver the results to Spirit, but the guy backed out. My numbers came up with LAS and FLL and RSW as the top 3 destinations if Spirit were to come to town.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 3095 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14):
I mean we do have 93% loads for the first half of 2007, and we still have never been considered for additional SFB Flights, or even flights to our most popular destination: LAS.

93% is quite high no doubt, but for Allegiant's game plan adding another frequency or two to 93% could be the straw that broke the camel's back. They've been known to have BELF's up in the upper 80's. You may have already reached the saturation point for flights to that destination for an airline like G4, Allegiant is smart enough to realize that it's going to be tough to pull anyone with rewards/miles away from FL (CAK/PIT) US (PIT) and CO (CLE) despite the proximity.

As for LAS.. that's a lonnnnng way for a Mad Dog, and ties the plane up for the majority of the day. With the fares to LAS out of PIT, CAK, and CLE it would be hard to woo customers to G4 in such a way that would make up for such a long haul. Look at Toledo for example.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 3060 times:

You bring up some good points Tornado82. I understand what you are saying, and I really pushed for YNG to get LAS service when it was absent from CAK, but now its back at CAK, and so competition may hurt their chances of selling high on most flights.

BTW: They got their new master plan approved and that should be up on their website within the coming weeks, I guess it focuses on GA, but also has an emphasis on the introduction of business flights again. They also got the FAA to approve a PFC of $4.50 on tickets. That will be used for bathrooms in the gated area, as well as improvements to the terminal



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

KarlB737 --- Your post made the local paper, well at least it will tomorrow.
I responded to the Youngstown Vindicator and asked them if they found the information out via my blog.

Grant for airport gains support
http://blogs.vindy.com/news/2007/07/...3/grant-for-airport-gains-support/



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineFATFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2001, 5844 posts, RR: 28
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 3032 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 14):
FATFlyer: I know your the insider here on Airliners.net re: Allegiant Air news. Have you heard anything at all regarding YNG?

I haven't heard anything lately. Now that the company is public (SEC regulations are now in play) the information flow is changed so I don't hear things like I used to.



"Travel is fatal to prejudice, bigotry, and narrow-mindedness." - Mark Twain
User currently offlineFlyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 2030 posts, RR: 13
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3009 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 15):
They've been known to have BELF's up in the upper 80's.

Just wondering where this information comes from....thanks!


User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 3005 times:

Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 19):

Just wondering where this information comes from....thanks!

Their one "televised" (webcasted) press conference mentioned it. Also when they entered Allentown there was a big write up in the local paper about the company and how their pricing is so low that they need full flights (85+ according to the paper) for profits... because their flight operations are basically break-even its the vacation packaging that puts them into the black.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 513 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 2951 times:

The Youngstown Vindicator Article on the Communities Supporting YNG
Thank You KarlB737
http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/292831257560919.php

Does anyone know when we will get a date of the announcement of the grant award winners. I really think YNG has a great shot to get the grant because its a practical grant, and our congressmen is in the very high up House Appropriations Committee and he has gotten money for various projects of the Mahoning Valley.



I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlinePSU.DTW.SCE From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 7768 posts, RR: 27
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2935 times:

The expected date is ~August 15th. They do not have set date, it basically comes down to when they finish the review and approval process.

YNG's application is in play but its no shoe-in.

Consider, 75 proposals were submitted. Of those 75, only about 40 have any sense or reality, the others are for rediculous stuff and non-air service improvement related items which usually get denied year after year. Those 40 total about $18-19 million worth of grants. Since the SCASD program has come under attack in recent years with funding significantly reduced, only $9.9 million is available to dole out. Since YNG is asking for $800,000, that over 8% of the total grant money, a rather large piece of a limited pie.

Needless to say, they will be more selective than ever. YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiate with the airlines second. In most cases, an application that already has an airline in a verbal agreement for service will basically be rubber stamped by the DOT.

Congressmen have minimal influence over the SCASD grant process as its the DOT that makes the decisions for these.

As I said YNG is in play, but it depends how the other applicants it is up against compare.

[Edited 2007-07-04 17:48:45]

User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1028 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2929 times:

Do you guys honestly think YNG can support much service? While it would certainly be a convenience for me, I just don't see it working.

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2923 times:

Quoting PSU.DTW.SCE (Reply 22):


Needless to say, they will be more selective than ever. YNG's application has one major shortcoming - they do not have a target airline listed and no letters of endorsement from any airline interested in service. YNG application states they want the money first then will negotiation with the airlines second. In most cases, and application that already has an airline in a verbal agreement for service will basically be rubber stamped by the DOT.

And that's a big stumbling block, considering a relatively nearby airport which already had sustaining airline service to a few hubs requested specific NYC service last year (or maybe it was 05 now I forget) with interest from CO-Ex and Colgan as US-Ex in the app and still got denied.


25 KarlB737 : Therefore based on your statement above if the grant is not approved because no airline was in the wings (pun intended) the blame could be targeted d
26 YNGguins : I think that statement is totally wrong. Back in 2002, YNG had a huge SCASD application with the support of Delta Airline Officials and many politici
27 Tornado82 : They're barking up the wrong trees with ORD though because of the slots and so forth. Likewise as was said, not RJ's to IAD but talking to Colgan may
28 YNGguins : You may be surprised by how many people didn't fly flights to DTW, CLE, CAK, ORD, PIT back in the day due the turboprops.. I for one just had to fly Y
29 Tornado82 : The Federal Government isn't in the business of playing psychiatrist to those with a psychological fear of turboprops. Just because people have shiny
30 YNGguins : Read our grant application. It goes a year by year by year look at the finances of the airline in its first 3 years. Come year 3, the airline will be
31 Tornado82 : On a 50 seat RJ? I'm willing to bet otherwise just because of the economics of a 50 seat RJ on a short hop.
32 YNGguins : If CAK can do it and make it work, then I am sure YNG can do it too.
33 PSU.DTW.SCE : Well of course if they are submitting a proposal the numbers better work out! Granted I wouldn't put it past some of our moron government agencies in
34 Tornado82 : LBE is a longer drive time-wise to PIT than even YNG is. Just something to keep in mind.
35 Ouboy79 : One thing about the TOL grant application from last year, they only asked for $400K in grant funds, the additional $1.6M in funds and related were ra
36 YNGguins : The Airport Director Steve Bowser and some other supposed Aviation Expert named Chuck Johnson were on 570 WKBN this morning discussing the grant appli
37 ATLAaron : Well since the things I read say they are indeed looking for Chicago service, do you think AA would make sense? Actually American Eagle but whatever.
38 PSU.DTW.SCE : AA has several airports of a similar size in the region that do not have service, including but not limited to: CAK, CRW, ABE, AVP, ROA. YNG getting A
39 YNGguins : YNG will not go away from their grant application and go after DTW or IAD. If they can't get ORD, they will go after Charlotte service, and quite fra
40 Post contains links YNGguins : Youngstown Vindicator Editorial for Sunday http://www.vindy.com/content/opinion/editorial/292929552123307.php HOW WE SEE IT At the very least, the U.S
41 YNGguins : Interesting Idea: VIENNA — State Sen. John Boccieri has written to Lt. Gov. Lee Fisher, asking that the state encourage Continental Airlines to crea
42 Tornado82 : Ah, Federal Gov't blackmail at it's finest... Continental would have to be pretty desperate for the expansion at CLE to agree to this. They're not go
43 Post contains links KarlB737 : You can add 3 more Pitches of Support For YNG SCASD. It looks like the attempt to rally the parties involved seems to be taking shape. I hope for all
44 Post contains links YNGguins : More from COA and YNG? http://www.vindy.com/content/local_regional/294322772077862.php Also from the Warren Tribune Chronicle http://tribune-chronicle
45 Tornado82 : Isn't there room at CLE for this maintenance facility right on the grounds over toward that I-X Center that I've heard is meeting the wrecking ball s
46 EXAAUADL : Agree 100%, lt Orlando apply then.
47 Post contains links YNGguins : Add another local township to the long list of local communities supporting YNG. And judging by reading the DOT Dockets; I got to say YNG has the most
48 Post contains links YNGguins : Vindy Editorial [#2 this week for YNG] State should help Valley lure Continental Airlines facility http://www.vindy.com/content/opinion/editorial/2957
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