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Flights At STL  
User currently offlineBoeing743 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5356 times:

Recently I looked up the STL airport website. It was new look and it is very nice easy to go around on site. I came to the terminal map and noticed that many gates are open compared to past when it was very full and a lot of traffics into STL. Since AA bought TWA, the STL was somewhat very busy and even STL building the new terminal E for SWA and another airlines. Now, Most of gates are open in B and D. The SWA use partly of new building while some of gates at E are available. Also many of AA does not going thru STL (not sure of exact number but probably about 300 to 400 daily?)

I am wonder if the traffic would pick up at STL or still same as now? Any information or comments are welcome.

86 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 5223 times:

As you mentioned there are a slew of empty gates at STL, and maybe one of the locals in STL can pipe in here with some hard info but here is what I can throw out there from my experience with Lambert...

Concourse A is pretty much jam-packed, with NW, CO, UA, US, AC, and DL keeping the 16 gates there hopping for most of the day. Midwest is there as well, not sure of their gate assignment though.

Concourse B was recently occupied by AirTran, who have leased one gate and are rumored to be possibly leasing another. B could probably take up to six jetways for a 717/73G type aircraft, which could make for a nice little focus operation if FL decided that STL could support that type of growth. Concourse B also happens to be the most convenient to the main terminal, with the shortest walks involved for passengers.

Concourse C is occupied by AA, and they currently operate about 210? flights per day, of which 60 or so are mainline. They operate from eight mainline gates on the north side of C, with 10 RJ gates on the south side. There are currently 10-12 unused gates at the eastern end of C for potential expansion by American, but doubtful. Save for some mainline/RJ tweaking, I think they are capped out at STL. I don't keep up much with the Regions situation, so I don't know the current status of the prop flights..

Concourse D can accommodate 15 or so gates, many of which were removed after the AA drawdown several years ago, and while it is Lambert's most recent addition to the main terminal it is also the least functional of the four concourses. Dark, drab, long walks (because the moving sidewalks were frequently inop), no amenities to speak of. Originally built for Ozark in '83 or '84, IIRC it is currently the occupant of only one carrier, Frontier, who leases the gate closest to the main terminal. The rest of D is a wasteland...

Concourse E, is actually not a concourse but an actual separate terminal whose main occupant is Southwest Airlines. Built at a cost of less than $100M, it was completed in 1998 and has 12 gates for WN with three additional gates to the west which have Customs/Immigration capability and is primarily used for charters. Southwest currently uses only 7 of the 12 gates available to them for their 65-70 daily flights, leaving room for future expansion if traffic increases. When the terminal was originally planned, STL was to become a major city for WN, but declining passenger numbers later scaled back those plans, but the terminal design and ultimate capacity was kept in place. Certainly the nicest of the facilities at STL, if not the most spartan it has a considerable amount of glass and very little clutter. High ceilings give it a very spacious feel...

Traffic at STL continues to grow at a steady rate, and I personally could see an increase of maybe 15-20 mainline flights per day combined over the next several years. As far as the facilities, most of the concourses were done in the late '70's and save for some minor cosmetic work they are pretty much the same as they were when the double-decking was started in 1977. If and when the MOANG ever decides to move I would like to see all the carriers currently in Concourse A temporarily located to the eastern end of C and/or D and take a wrecking ball to A and see a new concourse built to the west, accessible with a People Mover, ala TPA with 20-25 common-use gates. After moving all of the original carriers back to the New "A", I would personally take a sledge and pull down D myself. When that POS was built it ruined what little character Lambert had left. It was nice to drive down I-70 and actually see airplanes parked at the concourses instead of a long blob of concrete blocking your view....

Sorry, I will get off of my nostalgic soapbox now...


User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 5170 times:

Quoting BHMNONREV (Reply 1):
Traffic at STL continues to grow at a steady rate, and I personally could see an increase of maybe 15-20 mainline flights per day combined over the next several years. As far as the facilities, most of the concourses were done in the late '70's and save for some minor cosmetic work they are pretty much the same as they were when the double-decking was started in 1977. If and when the MOANG ever decides to move I would like to see all the carriers currently in Concourse A temporarily located to the eastern end of C and/or D and take a wrecking ball to A and see a new concourse built to the west, accessible with a People Mover, ala TPA with 20-25 common-use gates. After moving all of the original carriers back to the New "A", I would personally take a sledge and pull down D myself. When that POS was built it ruined what little character Lambert had left. It was nice to drive down I-70 and actually see airplanes parked at the concourses instead of a long blob of concrete blocking your view....

I was in STL yesterday. At the end of the ticket hall are drawings showing the planned changes to the airport. Unfortunately, most of the changes seem to be in the ticketing hall, dropoff area, and security checkpoint. I didn't see any changes to the gates.

A is jam packed and some of the carriers should move to B/D (maybe DL & NW).

C is just as you described it, but looking very busy these days. Still a lot of gates past C24 that can be used for future expansion.



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5155 times:

Gotta peak at some illustration of the proposed changes coming up. Gate areas will mainly be changing of colors. Primarily the dark ceilings will be painted/changed to white. The major changes will be mainly centered in the Main Terminal itself and not the concourses. Also heard a rumor that the D concourse will NOT see any improvements. Doesn't make any sense, hope that is a false rumor.


Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineLambertMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2081 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5138 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 3):
Gotta peak at some illustration of the proposed changes coming up. Gate areas will mainly be changing of colors. Primarily the dark ceilings will be painted/changed to white. The major changes will be mainly centered in the Main Terminal itself and not the concourses. Also heard a rumor that the D concourse will NOT see any improvements. Doesn't make any sense, hope that is a false rumor.

You are correct, sir. The D concourse will not see any improvements simply because it is not used. Makes sense to me.

Quoting MoMan (Reply 2):
I was in STL yesterday. At the end of the ticket hall are drawings showing the planned changes to the airport. Unfortunately, most of the changes seem to be in the ticketing hall, dropoff area, and security checkpoint. I didn't see any changes to the gates.

As previously mentioned, the gate areas will be pretty much paint changes. Going from a chocolate brown to a white will do wonders, or so I would think. One big change around the airport in general is that the purple carpet will go everywhere but the D concourse. Too bad.

I am pretty sure a press release is coming soon on this issue. Stay tuned.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5117 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
One big change around the airport in general is that the purple carpet will go everywhere but the D concourse. Too bad.

Makes no sense. You'd think they would make the changes to attract airlines, not deter them.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5108 times:

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 5):
Makes no sense. You'd think they would make the changes to attract airlines, not deter them.

I'm sure that Dolliole and Co. would be happy to renovate 'D' if there is demand for those gates. Until the demand appears, the best bet is to just leave them alone.



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 5098 times:

Quoting MoMan (Reply 6):
I'm sure that Dolliole and Co. would be happy to renovate 'D' if there is demand for those gates. Until the demand appears, the best bet is to just leave them alone.

The airport was able to cough up the 2 million to redo the jetways for AirTran pretty quickly I assume the same would be done for this situation. Plus we have that big pad of concrete to pay off which I have yet to land on.

I was under the impression WN was using 8 gates now for their 73 flight, maybe the absent Atrude777 could shed some light?

Midwest is operating out of the D/E concourse I have seen it numbered both ways. Or at least this was the case as of recently.

The new security checkpoint at A is much better than what previously existed so there is hope this terminal remodel will bring some welcomed changes.


User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 5083 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 7):
Plus we have that big pad of concrete to pay off which I have yet to land on.

Don't forget about the new pad they are replacing for the cargo carriers on the north side. (Twy F) Good thing they are taking care of those ten or so daily flights which have nearly zero chance of increasing in number.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4992 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 7):
I was under the impression WN was using 8 gates now for their 73 flight, maybe the absent Atrude777 could shed some light?

Midwest is operating out of the D/E concourse I have seen it numbered both ways. Or at least this was the case as of recently.

I am not THAT absent  Silly

WN is using officially 7 gates, E-4. E-6, E-8, E-10, E-12, E-14, and E-16 for everyday use, when we hit high peaks or delays we will spill over to E-18 and E-20. usually for RON for the nights.

E-22 and E-24 were sold back to STL.

Ever since YX moved back to E, I have always seen them at E-33 unless one day they switched to D and you saw it, I have not seen it.

I believe now that we gained 2 extra flights, we may have to utilize E-18 a bit more.

I am looking forward and hoping to see WN add more flights at STL, WN as far as I understand is very pleased with STL operations and would like to add more in the fall and maybe base another aircraft at STL, if I understand we have 6 aircrafts "based" in STL...At least for RON.

Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineBoeing743 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 4939 times:

hey atrude777, I did post this forum because I know that you would reply to this  smile  .

Since that everybody said that A is already too over crowded, some of airlines in terminal A should think about move some of airlines to B so that some day they can expand rather than over crowded in Terminal A. I am wonder if SWA has a good passengers loads that would be good enough for SWA to add some flights out of STL?


User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4896 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 7):
Midwest is operating out of the D/E concourse I have seen it numbered both ways. Or at least this was the case as of recently.



Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 9):
Ever since YX moved back to E, I have always seen them at E-33 unless one day they switched to D and you saw it, I have not seen it.

Thanks for the corrections, didn't know that they had moved to that end.

Quoting MoMan (Reply 2):
I was in STL yesterday. At the end of the ticket hall are drawings showing the planned changes to the airport. Unfortunately, most of the changes seem to be in the ticketing hall, dropoff area, and security checkpoint. I didn't see any changes to the gates.

The $100M or so being spent for the renovations to the security checkpoints, baggage claim and pick up areas will be most welcome. I'm still not sold on the "atrium" though.....  scratchchin 


User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1434 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 4843 times:

boy your not kidding driveing on i-70 ,you cant see anything like you could years ago..


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineBHMNONREV From Australia, joined Aug 2003, 1383 posts, RR: 4
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4788 times:

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 12):
boy your not kidding driveing on i-70 ,you cant see anything like you could years ago..

Before D was constructed, all you had to deal with was the Air Freight buildings and the TWA hangar. And if you were lucky you would see an Ozark FH-227 or Frontier CV-580 take off from runway 35...


User currently offlineTeo747 From United States of America, joined Nov 2006, 140 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 4784 times:

I flew out of STL on F9 back in May without knowing beforehand that they have Concourse D literally all to themselves...it was a bit strange to walk up and down the length of the concourse and find it completely deserted other than that one gate! I've also flown out of Concourse A on UA, which was completely packed. Interesting that one concourse can be so busy and another one totally empty!

User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4583 times:

Quick AA schedule updates (that I have noticed) for STL eff 09/05

STL-DAL --> 5x daily to 0x??
DAL-MCI --> to 8x daily???
STL-SGF-->1x daily to 2x
STL-CLT -->3x daily to 4x -- Wachovia Securities/Bof A
STL-TUL-->2x daily to 3x -- Enterprise/Vanguard-Alamo, National
STL-MSY-->3x daily to 4x
STL-EWR--> 5x daily to 6x
STL-DAY-->2x daily to 3x
STL-CID-->2x daily to 3x-- previously mentioned
STL-DEN goes to 3x from 4x- Frontier looks better to me every day on this route

No FLL, TPA or RSW additions that I have seen, also MCO goes to 2x 09/05 then back to 3x in December
LAX stays 5x MD-80
SFO 2xMD-80(1), 757(1)
SEA 2xMD-80 So far RDU/SAT/AUS and BOS keeps their MD-80 frequencies


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 15):
STL-DAL --> 5x daily to 0x??

5x daily ERJ on Trans States.


Also, run with this all you want to, kids.

Two to three years ...

Trans States = out
American Eagle = in

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 7):

Putting AirTran in the B concourse was just stupid. They should have gone to D.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineAtrude777 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5702 posts, RR: 52
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 4570 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 15):

and all these additions are RJ's right? Which actually isn't to bad, I can fly for free on the RJ's out of STL just not AA mainline, wonderful heh?  Silly


Alex



Good things come to those who wait, better things come to those who go AFTER it!
User currently offlineMrSTL From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 468 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4545 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
Two to three years ...

Trans States = out
American Eagle = in

Not suprising since AMR owns 10 of the ER145's and leases them to Trans States.


Quoting Atrude777 (Reply 17):
and all these additions are RJ's right? Which actually isn't to bad, I can fly for free on the RJ's out of STL just not AA mainline, wonderful heh?


Yes all RJ's

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
Putting AirTran in the B concourse was just stupid. They should have gone to D.

AA has to fill C first


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4541 times:

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 18):
AA has to fill C first

?

Quoting MrSTL (Reply 18):
Not suprising since AMR owns 10 of the ER145's and leases them to Trans States.

It'd be really nice if they'd ... well ... show them some tender loving care.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineSeptember11 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3623 posts, RR: 21
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4524 times:

Quoting LambertMan (Reply 4):
One big change around the airport in general is that the purple carpet will go everywhere but the D concourse.

ahh purple carpet in crapped concourses, good memories



Airliners.net of the Future
User currently offlineUltrapig From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 590 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4494 times:

STL suffers for several reasons:

First, The City of Saint Louis is a county surrounded by the County of St. Louis. Lambert airport is in the County but since it was founed in the twenties is actually owned by the City of St. Louis which makes it into a highly poliitcal operation where flunies are given jobs.

Second, trhe airport was run for many years by "Colonel Leonard Griggs" who dispite his sparkling repualtion and the fact that until the end of the TWA era, the airport actually made money which went into the operating budget of the City, couldn't seem to keep the bathrooms clean, the lights on and the roof from leaking.

Third, the airport is landlocked-not quite like Midway but any expansion means taring down houses. The metro area should have built a new airport int he 80's as planned accross the river in Illinois but Missour politicans blocked it.

Fourth, the terminal and most importantly the highway accesses are tightly congested.

Fifth, the new runway which was the most expensive project in St. Louis history (not just airport history) probably will eventaully be needed but is now hardly used.

Sixth, The city has a great geographical location but the metro population is static and not quite large enough to maintain a hub.

frankly the loss of TWA and the de-hubbing by American makes it very difficult to fly place for the day-something which always made this an attractive city. While there are still many non stop flights there are far fewer and as we all know conencting makes everything more difficult than it used to.


User currently offlineSTLGph From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 9518 posts, RR: 26
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4478 times:

Quoting Ultrapig (Reply 21):
Sixth, The city has a great geographical location but the metro population is static and not quite large enough to maintain a hub.

Memphis, Cincinnati, Salt Lake City, Cleveland...

There just isn't an airline out there with operations that need St. Louis Lambert for anything.



if assumptions could fly, airliners.net would be the world's busiest airport
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3377 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 4470 times:

Quoting Teo747 (Reply 14):
it was a bit strange to walk up and down the length of the concourse and find it completely deserted other than that one gate

I feel that way about the gates that DL abandoned in DFW, reminds me of D in STL as well too. STL is sad and its my birthplace, and I flew in on Ozark and TWA all the time. I have never even flown AA to STL at all, except DL or WN



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2468 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 4465 times:

Quoting STLGph (Reply 16):
Quoting MrSTL (Reply 7):

Putting AirTran in the B concourse was just stupid. They should have gone to D.

Smarter move going to B. For one thing, I'm hearing that D will NOT see improvements in the upcoming $100 million upgrade. Wacky, but true. Most likely, AirTran would have been placed right next to Frontier if they went to D. That would have been intrusive to Frontier expanding. For a mini hub, B is the best choice.



Just when I think you've said the stupidest thing ever, you keep talkin'!
25 Stl1326 : Are these updates not loaded on aa.com yet? Also, I think SEA loses a frequency when MCO gains the 3 flight.
26 ExpressJet_ERJ : The route upgrades. Are they on ERJ145s or on ERJ140s? Just curious if CHQ or TSA is getting the new flights. CHQ had 15 planes and last 3 months ther
27 MrSTL : No AA.com is usually updated overnight, Expedia is showing the flights though. You are correct we will lose the SEA frequency as we do every year in
28 Stl1326 : Don't quote me on this but I think MAH said that FLL would be returning this winter and I would venture to say that RSW and TPA will gain a frequency
29 Stl1326 : I guess they are finally giving up. STL-DAL is no longer bookable after the first week in September.
30 Pilotpip : Our contract runs a lot longer than two to three years. We've been doing flights for CHQ out of here as well recently because they're stretched too t
31 STLGph : Well, it's 2007 and Trans State's renewal with TWA wasn't signed too far off before the buy out from American. So, in 3 years, you're looking at 2010
32 Pilotpip : TSA has to my knowledge, extended that contract. They're pretty secretive around here so we really don't know what's going on. I find it hard to imagi
33 Post contains images STLGph : Interesting you say that since the Eagle folk say their costs are lower. You ladies all fight amongst yourselves and call me when it's over Good luck
34 JetJeanes : I know stl to dal is gone, but stl did have a second airport built across the river in Illinois and is or was a decent deserrted airport. All that mon
35 Pilotpip : I know there's more to it than just the money that the idiots up front are making, but theirs are paid way better than ours.
36 PC12Fan : It is a shame, but timing is everything, as they say, and timing of both projects was poor. Nobody knew what the future held. W1W and BLV were good i
37 Jman40 : I was in STL last summer for the first time in years, and the new runway (11/29) took me by surprise. From what I read here, it isn't used much. Are
38 MoMan : Neither idea was overly genius, but the BLV idea was worse. BLV never worked as a reliever. Anyone who lives in the STL market knows there is only tw
39 Post contains links MrSTL : The traffic will come, it will take time though. I saw Senator Kit Bond at the airport this morning, I noticed his name was not on the PR AA sent out
40 777STL : That second airport is MidAmerica in Belleville. First they were going to become a strong alternative to STL for pax traffic, during the glory days o
41 Bond007 : The traffic will never some in such numbers as to require the new runway. It would have to double to justify it, and I don't see that happening. Jimb
42 Post contains links Stl1326 : I can't believe you would say something like that. You think that the Missouri side doesn't have an east St. Louis of its own, you are wrong. There a
43 LambertMan : AirTran needs help at Lambert desperately. Even though it is a forgone conclusion that they are going to expand, I have a hard time imagining how the
44 MoMan : Relax....I was talking specifically about EAST St. Louis, which is much better than it was in the past: Anything east of East St. Louis is nice, Fair
45 Pilotpip : How is driving from west county or St. Charles (where the majority of people in the St. Louis area live) any different than say, Belleville?
46 Post contains images MrSTL : Might have been a more apt description of the metro east 20 years ago. We will continue to see the metro east grow, especially since westward sprawl
47 Post contains images Bond007 : Well, there is another reason ... so I'm told. Something about clubs .... BTW ... the East St. Louis reputation is quite justified. As of last year,
48 STLGph : East St. Louis and St. Louis are two totally separate entities.
49 Bond007 : Understood - but the crime figures include both in their rankings - presumably because of geographical area, rather than political boundaries. "..Thi
50 Pilotpip : No they don't. Just like they don't contain the statistics from St. Louis County. This is why St. Louis is often at the top of these crime polls. Ther
51 STLGph : Thank you. ;p
52 777STL : If that's true, it makes absolutely no sense considering East St. Louis is in a different state and separated from STL by a rather large river. Exact
53 PC12Fan : Friend of mine told me about an interesting exchange heard between a pilot and an ATC controller. They were talking about 11/29 and hopefully the mot
54 MoMan : I'm not certain why the animosity of this controller. It does represent a segment of the St. Louis population, who were giddy as hell when Southwest
55 Bond007 : I didn't miss the point. I was commenting on the line I directly quoted "The traffic will come, it will take time though.", which was referring to th
56 777STL : Most of the money was already spent in the early-mid 90s. It would have been foolish to stop such a project after they already had 8xx million dollar
57 Pilotpip : You seem to miss an important part of that filing twice. Caribou and a prick named Icahn. Their business model was good and they had great loads. How
58 Post contains images Bond007 : ??? It was It wasn't even discussed formally until 1992, and the runway was suggested as an alternative in 1996! It wasn't approved until 1998! Const
59 MoMan : Only had two years left when AA came calling. Blame it on the stupid proposed UA-US merger. Griggs and co. could have stopped the project all the way
60 Post contains images MrSTL : They would have only had to make it two more years, yet 9/11 would have probably done them in. We'll never know. Regarding STL and the new runway, we
61 STLGph : Which is why you can afford the rent in the west end, right? Not necessarily. Southwest, along with all the other airlines there, have a fan base of
62 Pilotpip : Remember, Griggs and company were the whole reason that W1W was used. The FAA, and others saw better proposals. Perhaps the best prospect was building
63 777STL : I think in the court of public opinion, the empty acquired land, the Linderbergh underpass, etc. would have garnered much more criticism than an unde
64 Post contains images MoMan : Agreed, but WN seems to be less supported now than it was in 2000. I do hope that STL sees some extra flights. I really like what AA has done with th
65 Bond007 : They had until 2001 to stop the project, before the runway construction was even started. IMO it was a huge mistake to continue when they knew much b
66 N960AS : "The only thing it has going for it right now is the CWE/Lindell/SLU area." I don't think that's true. Forest Park, Clayton, the Loop, and Wash U are
67 Falstaff : I spent most of my life in St. Louis and now live in Detroit and I think St. Louis is great. If you think all of STL is a dump then come to Detroit a
68 Post contains links PC12Fan : Quoting Falstaff (Reply 67): E. St. Louis is very small. But pound for pound, it is one of the most screwed up bureaucracies out there. Quoting MoMan
69 STLGph : Wow, talk about being out of touch. They have the same "support" if not more.
70 LambertMan : Yeah, definitely not the case. Since AA downsized, WN at STL has went from perennially on the chopping block to having flights added every year (alth
71 777STL : Nah, with all due respect, it's called being realistic and unbiased. STL as a whole is a dump. I don't blame AA for what they did. They had two huge
72 STLGph : I lived there for six years. In the city. With all due respect, you have no idea what you are talking about. Interesting how no one comments that Tra
73 777STL : Wow, a whole six years??!?! (rolleyes) I've lived here for my entire life and have worked here in the city for as long as you lived here. Suffice it
74 STLGph : Sounds like it. Since you live out by Edwardsville and all and have little or no grasp about theneighborhoods across the river. It's ok, I met people
75 777STL : Alright buddy, because you know all about me, right? Hahaha, whatever. Yes, I live in Edwardsville, all of 20 minutes away from downtown STL. You're
76 MoMan : Not trying to insult you personally, but I believe that the best days of STL are behind it. The region is slow growing and has been in a downward dra
77 Post contains images Atrude777 : Well ya..that was 2 or 3 years ago Now Growth at STL for WN has been rising and WN has slowly been increasing flights and cities, since 2004.. we add
78 LambertMan : I prefer not turn this into a Pittsburgh-esque cheerleading competition/pissing match, but I can't hack stupidity either. If you don't have anything
79 Galapagapop : Was just in STL yesterday for my flight back to NY, was fairly hustling and bustling, at least at C. I love flying into STL, certainly dimmer than in
80 STLGph : Rome wasn't built in a day. There's new developments that have opened this year and there are some that are being built now. A majority are still in
81 Stl1326 : I think you said what needed to be said. I really hate when people say things that they don't know what they are talking about..... That is very true
82 Post contains links MrSTL : FACTS: There has never been more investment dollars flowing into STL in its history than there are right now, again I repeat never. The ballpark was
83 777STL : I have every right to post my *opinion* here. If you don't like it, I don't care. Have a nice day. It's my opinion that the city proper of St. Louis
84 STLGph : And we collectively thank you for coming out and admitting you have zero contribution.
85 777STL : Because I'm unbiased enough to say I don't believe STL is the greatest city in the world?
86 Stl1326 : Who ever said we believe St. Louis is the greatest city in the world? I don't.... All we are saying is we don't believe the city is a "dump" like you
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