AIR KORYO North Korea
AIR WEST CO. LTD Sudan
ARIANA AFGHAN AIRLINES Afghanistan
BLUE WING AIRLINES Surinam
SILVERBACK CARGO FREIGHTERS Rwanda
TAAG ANGOLA AIRLINES Angola
VOLARE AVIATION ENTREPRISE Ukraine
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of DR Congo (except Hewa Bora, see below)
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Equatorial Guinea
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Indonesia
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Kyrgyzstan
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Liberia
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Sierra Leone
All Airlines under regulatory oversight of Swaziland
AIR BANGLADESH Bangladesh B747-269B S2-ADT only
AIR SERVICE COMORES Comoros All fleet except LET 410 D6-CAM
HEWA BORA AIRWAYS DR Congo All fleet except: B767-266 ER 9Q-CJD
PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES Pakistan
All fleet except B-777; 3 B-747-300; 2 B-747-200. 6 A-310
(AP-BHV, AP-BHW, AP-BGJ, AP-BGK, AP-BGL, AP-BGY, AP-BGZ; AP-BFU, AP-BGG, AP-BFX, AP-BAK, AP-BAT, AP-BEU, AP-BGP, AP-BGR, AP-BGN, AP-BEC, AP-BEG)
So interestingly, no Bulgarian airlines as reported earlier. One TAAG flight is on its way to LIS now, and the document doesn't say when it will come into force, but I think it'll be Friday. Let's see what the Angolan reaction will be.
Angola has already retaliated by banning BA flights to Luanda. See thread titled 'British Airways Banned! Tit-for-Tat feom Angola'. Will they now ban all other EU airlines?
Tiago701 From Portugal, joined Jun 2006, 157 posts, RR: 3 Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 3112 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter): One TAAG flight is on its way to LIS now, and the document doesn't say when it will come into force, but I think it'll be Friday.
Correct. It will come into force this Friday after being published in the Official Journal of the European Union with immediate effect.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13334 posts, RR: 64 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 3048 times:
We would have seen very few of the airlines in Europe anyway. Most are just regional airlines operating e.g. in West Africa, Indonesia or Surinam. I'll bet that the only time we might ever see the Comorian L-410 would if it flies to the Czech Republic for heavy maintenance.
ANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 weeks 5 hours ago) and read 2976 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4): We would have seen very few of the airlines in Europe anyway. Most are just regional airlines operating e.g. in West Africa, Indonesia or Surinam. I
The ban extends to the issuance of interline tickets in the EU by any airline involving transport over the lines of these companies.
HT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6471 posts, RR: 27 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 2790 times:
Quoting MD11Engineer (Reply 4): I'll bet that the only time we might ever see the Comorian L-410 would if it flies to the Czech Republic for heavy maintenance.
Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?
-HT
Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 3 Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 2757 times:
Quoting HT (Reply 7): Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?
I'd say such flights may have to be requested on a case-by-case basis. But I am not sure.
VS11 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 978 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2331 times:
That is because the Bulgarian authorities revoked the licenses of the operators before the EU authorities did, so technically by the time the EU published the list, those Bulgarian airlines did not exist as such.
MD11Engineer From Germany, joined Oct 2003, 13334 posts, RR: 64 Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 2327 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 8): uoting HT (Reply 7):
Please update me: Does this ban "only" cover flights carrying pax and/or freight, but allows flights into or via the EU for transferring the a/c to a maintenance base ?
I'd say such flights may have to be requested on a case-by-case basis. But I am not sure.
Non-revenue flights usually follow different procedures. You can e.g. fly a plane, which has limited airworthiness, from one place to another using a "permit to fly", though in this case ALL countries overflown, plus the country of registration have to give their permission. This is e.g. used if a plane suffers a puncture in the fuselage due to e.g. "ramp rash" and has to be flown unpressurised, with a temporary repair, back to a place where it can be repaired properly. Obviously carryage of passengers or anybody except the absolutely necessary crew is not allowed under such circumstances.
ANother From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2159 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 11): Well, the last TAAG flight just landed. I hope they will get their act together and come back soon!
From the official journal:
TAAG — Angola Airlines
(11) There is verified evidence of serious safety deficiencies on the part of TAAG Angola Airlines certified in Angola. These deficiencies have been identified by France during ramp inspections performed under the SAFA programme. The repetition of these inspection findings shows systemic safety deficiencies.
(12) TAAG Angola Airlines demonstrated a lack of ability to address safety deficiencies in response to requests by France, in spite of guarantees given by the carrier and its competent authorities as demonstrated by persistent safety deficiencies. Also, there is insufficient ability of the competent authorities of Angola to enforce the relevant safety standards, despite the guarantees given by these authorities.
(13) The competent authorities of Angola demonstrated a lack of ability to implement and enforce the relevant safety standards, when concerns about the safety of the operation of TAAG certified in that State were raised.
(14) Whilst acknowledging the effort made by the carrier towards the identification of the actions necessary to redress its safety situation, as well as the disposition towards cooperation shown by both the carrier and the competent authorities of civil aviation of Angola, the Commission considers that the satisfactory implementation of an adequate corrective action plan by the carrier is not completed.
(15) Therefore, on the basis of the common criteria, it is assessed that TAAG Angola Airlines does not meet the relevant safety standards. The air carrier should be subject to a ban to all its operations and should be included in Annex A.
Planemanofnz From New Zealand, joined Sep 2005, 1653 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 2 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 2156 times:
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 47 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 1801 times:
Quoting VV701 (Reply 1): Angola has already retaliated by banning BA flights to Luanda.
GARUDAROD From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 1476 posts, RR: 1 Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 1641 times:
Quoting Gffgold (Reply 17): I noticed that Saudi Arabia is about to join in with the EU in banning Indonesian arlines. Will this extend to Hajj flights, I wonder?
Gffgold,
Do you have a source for that info? That would seem to be pretty serious if true, especially if it extends
to the HAJJ. That is the only reason GA has a positive cash flow at times.
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 3 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1504 times:
Quoting GARUDAROD (Reply 19): Do you have a source for that info? That would seem to be pretty serious if true, especially if it extends
to the HAJJ. That is the only reason GA has a positive cash flow at times.
Quote: Saudi Arabia has said it is considering banning Indonesian airlines from flying to the country for safety reasons. The news comes less than a fortnight after the European Union announced a similar ban on all Indonesian airlines. The ban came after two major air disasters in the Asian archipelago since the beginning of the year.
The transport ministry said it had received a letter from Saudi Arabia's aviation authority warning of the possible ban on all Indonesian flights. According to a ministry spokesman, the ban is the result of a recent EU decision to blacklist Indonesian airlines on safety grounds.
National757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 717 posts, RR: 1 Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1494 times:
Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Thread starter): PAKISTAN INTERNATIONAL AIRLINES Pakistan
All fleet except B-777; 3 B-747-300; 2 B-747-200. 6 A-310
Why would only certain aircraft types be subject to a ban? Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity? Aren't all PIA aircraft subject to the same safety standards and processes?
Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1478 times:
Quoting Gffgold (Reply 17): I noticed that Saudi Arabia is about to join in with the EU
Quoting National757 (Reply 21): Why would only certain aircraft types be subject to a ban? Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity? Aren't all PIA aircraft subject to the same safety standards and processes?
I would think that the fact that some types have been banned and some not would indicate exactly that this must be the case - the EU is happy with the way that some of the planes are being looked after and isn't happy with others.
National757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 717 posts, RR: 1 Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1465 times:
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 22): the EU is happy with the way that some of the planes are being looked after and isn't happy with others.
Makes sense. Pretty straight forward. Would be Interesting to find out what in particular they find troubling about the rest of PIA's fleet.
I don't see how the EU can say..we like those A310s and B777s you fly but we don't want anything to do with your 733s.
Anyway you look at it, making this list is not something to be proud of, that's for sure.
Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
BuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2778 posts, RR: 3 Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 1422 times:
Quoting National757 (Reply 21): Isn't the entire fleet all maintained by a single entity?
It could be that the larger aircraft (which they possess in smaller numbers) are maintained by 3rd parties, which could give them a different safety level. Not sure if this is the case at PIA, but it might be an explanation - outsourcing makes sense if you operate only 2-3 copies of each model.
I scratch my head, therefore I am.
25 Maersk737: For the airlines involved or the EU ? Cheers Peter
26 National757: Probably for the airlines involved I would imagine. Restricts their access to a lucrative European market.
27 Maersk737: Thats what I thought, but thank you for clarifying Cheers Peter
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