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717, 767-400 & 757-300 Flop?  
User currently offlineAirmale From Botswana, joined Sep 2004, 375 posts, RR: 1
Posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 2593 times:

have they ? i dont see to many orders 


.....up there with the best!
18 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDelta763ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2534 times:


Rememberm that in the 80's, the 757/767 program never received many orders until the late 80's, early 90's and look, who would have ever thought that the 767 would have become the most popular a/c to cross the Atlantic. So just give it time.


User currently offlineDelta763ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2519 times:

Remember that in the 80's, the 757/767 program never received many orders until the late 80's, early 90's and look, who would have ever thought that the 767 would have become the most popular a/c to cross the Atlantic. So just give it time, these a/c, at least the 767-400 will prove worthy.

User currently offlineOO-VEG From Netherlands, joined Oct 2000, 1081 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2508 times:

The 767-400 is very new therefore they have not much orders. I think some airlines will buy that aircraft. The 717: well, as far as I know Air Tran ordered a large number of it. I believe TWA did that too (but I'm not sure about that) an how about Olympic and that australian airline???? They also bought the aircraft.

And the 757-300. You are right, this has to be a mistake. In my opinion this aircraft is just too similar to the 767-200. So why dso you make such a thing?


User currently onlineMEA-707 From Netherlands, joined Nov 1999, 4264 posts, RR: 34
Reply 4, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2503 times:

OK, these aircraft are no huge sellers but make some money for Boeing nevertheless. After a slow start, the 757-300 got some large orders from ATA and Continental, while the 767-400 also has some large orders (Delta and Continental). And don't forget development of these aircraft didn't cost Boeing that much; actually you only put in two extra slices of fuselage (and some other adjustments, OK). The 757-300 aircraft are interesting for airlines which don't want to have the 767 family, like ATA or Northwest. So Boeing can make a quick buck with it, even without selling 100s.


nobody has ever died from hard work, but why take the risk?
User currently offlineOO-AOG From Switzerland, joined Dec 2000, 1426 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 2491 times:

The 767 was a strong seller in the 80/90' but now, with the A330-200 as a competitor, sales are going down.
Most 767 current orders are from US domestic market, thanks to CO and DL.
The 717, excellent plane indeed, doesn't have any commonalty with any other aircraft type...doesn't help the sales. (Again most orders are from US Airlines.)
The 757-300 seems to be a real flop. Hopefully for Boeing, Continental's CEO Bethune (ex-Boeing salesman BTW) just ordered 10 aircrafts.



Falcon....like a limo but with wings
User currently offlineFlashmeister From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 2896 posts, RR: 6
Reply 6, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2477 times:
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I don't think we can say that the 753 is a flop: it's only been on the market a short while... Lufthansa is evaluating it, there are rumors about NW, so on and so forth.

I think that airlines are being a little more careful before saying "Yes, we want 100" than they used to be. Watch for the 753 to do just fine.


User currently offlineNKP S2 From United States of America, joined Dec 1999, 1714 posts, RR: 5
Reply 7, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2463 times:

Let's also consider that these A/C could be "tactical" moves as well--ie: Hedging on future growth in air travel...which could pay off handsomely down the road. Not unlike a city building an outerbelt freeway in the exurbs: What seems today like an expensive boondoggle that goes nowhere will be regarded as a godsend 15 years from now.

User currently offlineN960AS From Switzerland, joined Apr 2000, 466 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 2447 times:

I'll have to agree with most here that it is to soon to judge. From what I've read in the early 80's the only 757 orders were from BA and Eastern...now the 757 is the only mainline type that AA, UA, DL, NW, CO, TW, US and HP ALL operate (thats 8 of the top 10 US airlines). That is pretty impressive. So who knows what will happen, any of these types could catch on.

About the 717: I think its biggest flaw is commonality. Maybe if Boeing invested enough to make a shoter 717-100 and even a longer 717-300 (a new MD-80? please, please) sales would rise. It seems like all the other 100-110 seaters out there (A319, B735/736 plus A318) can operate much longer routes. The 717 can't, but I'm guessing it is lighter, cheaper and more efficient.

From what I know TW has 50 717s on order. Air Tran has 50, Hawaiian has 13 plus options and I'm not sure how many AB (Spainair connection) has on order. Olypic Aviation has 2 but I heard they were ordered for political reasons and they are kind of odd balls in the fleet.

~N960AS



User currently offlineDelta763ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2449 times:



Please do not say that 767 sales have gone down because of the A332. The A332 has had a few sales, Swissair, Air Canada, and a few more. The 767 far exceeds the A332, in fact, the Boeing 767-400 alone, has more orders combined than the whole A332 order book. Don't forget Delta wants over 21, and Continental wants another 20 and NWA could place an order for some, so the 767 still exceeds the A330, there again, the 767-400 is having a great start.


User currently offlineAerLingus From China, joined Mar 2000, 2371 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 2426 times:

Where have you been AirMale? There has been a discussion about this every week if not every few days.



Get your patchouli stink outta my store!
User currently offlineFlyVirgin744 From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1313 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2411 times:

In regards to what MEA-707 said, when did Continental place an order for the 757-300 and was it so recent that its not on the Boeing site? (I can't seem to find it) I find it weird CO would buy the 767-200 and the 757-300 considering the 753 has just barely a higher capacity.


Sometimes I go about in pity for myself and all the while a great wind carries me across the sky.
User currently offlineCX747 From United States of America, joined May 1999, 4445 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2404 times:

Continental placed an order for 15 757-300s oh, about a month and a half ago I believe. LH is looking at the aircraft very heavily and it seems that NW is going to place an order for it as their DC-10-40 replacement. It also seems that they will order the A330-200. IMHO it seems that the 767 needs a little life put back into it. With the launch of the 767-400ERX the program will start to garner some more orders.


"History does not long entrust the care of freedom to the weak or timid." D. Eisenhower
User currently offlineTan flyr From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1897 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2399 times:

Not flops at all. As others have mentioned the development costs are relatively small compared to a brand new a/c. Well over 100 for the 717, over 40, so far for the 764, and a decent start for the 753 with NW to come in later in the week.

Success is not only measured in sales, its PROFITS! Look at the SUV deal in the US, Ford & GM make almost $20,000 on the biggest suvs.Sure did not cost that much more to build them over the mid sized ones! Same for planes. AI mave have the biggest new toy on the block, but I bet Boeing makes more money on a 747-XXX stretched model.

So, give these a bit more time. My hunch is that AA and others will soon order the 764 and perhaps some 753's also to add capacity in hi density markets and help out the FAA by cutting number of flights at peak times, etc.


User currently offlineSoku39 From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 1797 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2391 times:

These are all fairly new variants even if they don't have big numbers yet, but in 5-10 years the numbers will add up and so will the money.


The Ohio Player
User currently offlineJaseWGTN From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 821 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2384 times:

God I hate posts like this!

If you are going to have a topic like this, either back it up, or don't waste everyones time!


User currently offlineLeigh pilgrim From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2000, 392 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 2381 times:

jaseWGTN, leave them alone its only a question very good infact as the 767 is my favourate aircraft I would like to know whats happening

User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8494 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2368 times:

Post this in 10 years and then you'll have a real answer.

User currently offlineQantas737 From Australia, joined Jul 2000, 738 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (13 years 4 months 2 days 9 hours ago) and read 2363 times:

OO-VEG, u say that the 757-300 is too similar to the 767-200. In a way that is good, seeing that the 767-200 is now starting to become an old aircraft and airlines are looking for replacements. Qantas is one that is reaplacing their 767-200s and have ordered A330-200 so that the 767-300ER and A330-200 can replace the 767-200 on domestic routes.

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