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IHT: Emirates Aims To Redraw World Aviation Map  
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 9650 times:

Emirates aims to redraw world aviation map
by Leslie Wayne

Thursday, July 5, 2007
PARIS: The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

He has a huge pot of money to spend, $82 billion from his government, the airline and other financiers. He loves large planes and has ordered 55 super-jumbo A380s to create the biggest fleet of these double-decker planes in the world. And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.

More here: http://www.iht.com/bin/print.php?id=6515813

47 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9561 times:

I know there is a lot of foreign interest in UAE and they are one of the most stable Arab countries, but I think EK is a bit too ambitious. All it takes is a major disaster from a terrorist act (not just in Dubai, but New York, London, Singapore, etc.) to cripple the world's economy and put a major halt on air traffic. By no means am I saying just live in a box, but I think you have to be reasonable-and 55 A380's, numerous 77W's, 100 787's or A350XWB's....isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 9497 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):

This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net who claim it's just a public company like any other and doesn't have direct government support, that they are really turning a profit, that they have to get financing like everyone else, etc., etc.

But it sure sounds as if he's a rich royal with a big bankroll, a bigger ego, and even bigger delusions of grandeur, and such people in the past have done well for a while, but it never ends well...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineABpositive From Australia, joined Nov 2005, 227 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9466 times:

These things are always a gamble. Ryanair did a similar thing and thrown a lot of money when many others would have been against it, but it paid off for them.

User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9450 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.

Trouble is, Dubai is about 1,000nms. too far to the east at present - it's out of non-stop range of the US West Coast with present-day equipment.. So they can connect to NYC westbound in a single hop, but not to LAX. If they COULD get to LAX nonstop westbound, they'd be able to circle the world in four hops, and be a genuine 'world' airline. But until one of the manufacturers produces an aeroplane that will give them that capability, they're limited to Dubai-NYC westbound, and Dubai-LAX (with one stop) eastbound.

No wonder they keep pushing both manufacturers to give them maximum-capacity long-range aircraft........



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinePhoenixflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9386 times:

Dubai to Los Angeles is well within the range of EKs 345. The shortest route between the two also isnt to the west or east, its north over the pole. I dont think its a range issue that has stopped them from expanding into LAX. The only reason someone from LA would fly to Dubai would be for a connection to Africa or the Middle East. I just don't think they could support the loads for such a long flight when there are more profitable markets they can fly to.

User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 9366 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9313 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
I know there is a lot of foreign interest in UAE and they are one of the most stable Arab countries, but I think EK is a bit too ambitious. All it takes is a major disaster from a terrorist act (not just in Dubai, but New York, London, Singapore, etc.) to cripple the world's economy and put a major halt on air traffic. By no means am I saying just live in a box, but I think you have to be reasonable-and 55 A380's, numerous 77W's, 100 787's or A350XWB's....isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???

...the London bombings from a few years ago didn't stop traveling to DXB...not to mention, many people from other places like going to DXB...add the business aspect of it (i.e.-banking, commerce, etc)...

..also, 40-50 of their new order would be for replacement aircraft...ambitious? yes...over-extending? possibly..but give them credit for taking chances and trying outside of the box....

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):

This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net who claim it's just a public company like any other and doesn't have direct government support, that they are really turning a profit, that they have to get financing like everyone else, etc., etc.

..actually not really....while we know EK is a quasi-independent company, they still have to turn a profit as they have loans, etc....to pay...yes, they have advantages which other countries/carriers don't have....but hey, can you blame them for taking advantage of the situation? Look at other fully state-run air carriers, they totally pathetic....

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
The chairman of Emirates Airlines - Sheikh Ahmed Bin Saeed Al-Maktoum of the ruling family of Dubai - has grand ambitions, and a bankroll to match.

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

..maybe they will have to pay more to the pilots...it might affect some profitability, but lets see pilots leaving "en masse" as many here and on the PPRUNE website claim



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9302 times:

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 5):
I dont think its a range issue that has stopped them from expanding into LAX.

The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia, Phoenixflier, creating a four-stop mass-transit round-world network through Dubai. The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

[Edited 2007-07-06 07:47:22]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlinePhoenixflyer From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 81 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9243 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia,

Of course, everyone wants to fly the US-Australia route and I wasnt saying its illogical for them to even want to fly to LAX. It just doesnt make sense to have a DXB-LAX flight. SYD/MEL-LAX on EK makes sense but that wasnt the problem that you brought up. DXB has nothing to do with US-Australia services. They wouldnt be allowed to fly that route without Australian approval and since they most likely wouldnt get it, no one would fly all the way to DXB just to get to LAX.

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):
The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

There may be passenger restrictions on a flight like that but it is within range. Singapore flies a much longer flight successfully so its not improbable. If any airline would do it, it would be EK.


User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 9170 times:

Quoting Phoenixflyer (Reply 9):
It just doesnt make sense to have a DXB-LAX flight.

With respect, Phoenixflier, I think this article amply confirms their interest in DXB-LAX:-

"Because of Emirates' plan to expand nonstop service globally from its hub in Dubai, the carrier wants bigger jets and longer-range jets than just about any other airline.

"The West Coast expansion plan includes direct 16.5-hour flights from Dubai to Los Angeles, and possibly flights into Seattle, too, he said. It awaits the delivery of 10 new ultra-long-range $230 million Boeing 777-200LR Worldliners he has on order."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...09_emirates19.html?syndication=rss

As to needing Aussie permission for LAX-SYD, I don't know for sure how the rules work, but I don't think that they would. Australia can't control who flies IN to Australia, as far as I know; indeed, they can't control people like Singapore flying ON to the USA. What it can do is stop them selling tickets in Australia for any onward flights. Seems to me that that wouldn't apply to Emirates west-bound since they already have established services to and from Australia ex- DXB?

The other thing is that Emirates have been reported as looking for a Pacific hub. If they established that in Australia the problem would be solved, and they could operate Oz-DXB and Oz-LAX in their usual 'out-and-return' basis - which minimises crew accommodation/stopover costs. EXCEPT that the key, for the whole system to work, remains the range to reach LAX from DXB non-stop with a worthwhile passenger load.

[Edited 2007-07-06 08:54:31]


"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9162 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 8):

The importance of LAX is that they could then provide trans-Pacific services to and from Australia, Phoenixflier, creating a four-stop mass-transit round-world network through Dubai. The A345 simply won't 'cut it' because of its limited passenger loads at extreme range.

..the -200LR would do the trick...after all, it will only be 150nm more than their upcoming DXB-IAH flight..... Wink



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9051 times:

Nearly all what A--Makhtoon states in the thread starter article is in need of substantiation. As far I know, there is no comprehensive study available showing that looking in the future, the EK expansion scheme is realistic.

The quotes below, as far not indicated otherwise, are from the Thread Starter article:

Quote:
Of course, success for Maktoum is not just a simple matter of buying airplanes. He must still compete with well-established carriers plying many of the same routes as Emirates, attract enough passengers to fill his vast fleet profitably and hope that the economies of the Middle East, including Dubai, and emerging markets in Asia and the Indian subcontinent continue to grow at their current pace to justify the Emirates' massive investment.

And of course, additionally:
-
not compete only on the same routes, but with direct and non stop flights between cities where DCX wants to be the hub
-
compete with other want to be hubs as Singapur (SQ), Qatar (QR), India (Kingfischer), UAR (Etihad) and many other which want to do the same
-
superate the handicap that citizens from the extreme of the routes will generally prefer their own airlines in front of an a foreign one (Example: London-Sydney: British and Australian)

Quote:
Dubai is on a $365 billion building spree, and more development means more flights for the carrier. Construction projects include the Burj Dubai, the world's tallest building, and the Mall of Arabia, the world's largest shopping mall. The 1,500-square-mile, or almost 4000-square-kilometer, emirate is also building "Dubailand" - a leisure park bigger than Monaco - and the Dubai Waterfront, a development of condos and stores that will be the size of Barbados.

Even so, the own market, in proportion of their plans, is relatively small. The data above do not show that the total of the inhabitants is only 850,000, of which more than 500,000 are low income "guest workers" candidates only for the lowest airline class.
They cannot count with the population of their neighbors, as they are competing with their own airlines .As for the great importance of their establishments, this argument would be similar to say that Switzerland, due to its characteristics, would be able to feed substantially an enormous airline as the planned EK (with due respect regarding the Swiss!)

Quote:
The airline also benefits from an enviable location - Emirates bases its strategy on the fact that its planes can reach any point on the globe nonstop from Dubai and can connect any two city pairs with just one stop in the Middle East.



Quoting NAV20 (Reply 4):
Quoting Positiverate (Thread starter):
And he wants to make Dubai, a sheikhdom by the sea, the busiest airline hub in the world, overtaking London, New York and Singapore.
Trouble is, Dubai is about 1,000nms. too far to the east at present

To NAV20 statement should be added also too far to the south. The mileage flawn from Europe to nearly all China, Japan, Korea using DCX as a hub is by far larger (and many flight hours longer) as by non-stop flights

As for the Indian Continent, Southeastern Asia, Indonesia and Australia, they are in the right position, but in all these cases must compete with non stop or 1 stop flights of SQ, QR, Kingfischer, Air India Qantas, all European airlines

Quote:
But new planes are being designed to go from city-to-city nonstop and to make that paradigm obsolete. He may be making a huge bet on a system that may not be as valid in the future as it has been in the past."

See above

Quote:
Cullemore of Aviation Economics disagrees. While planes might fly nonstop from London to Beijing or Tokyo, there are a lot of other European, Asian and African cities that cannot offer nonstop flights.

This is a mostly not valid argument, not only because the small size high efficiency planes as the B788 allow more often such flights, as the examples in the following separate post examples Reply 13 show
These examples can be extrapolated to most other cases.

aminobwana

[Edited 2007-07-06 09:27:06]

User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9024 times:

Here follow the examples as stated in my Reply 12:

a) If the cities of the pair are small enough so that no direct flights either to the final destination nor to DCX are possible,
Example No.1: Nuernberg, Germany - Kunming, China
An airline combination of the end countries can do it with 2 stops:
Nuernberg- Frankfurt (high frequency) - short layover
Frankfurt - Hong Kong (short layover
Hong Kong - Kunming (high frequency)

EK need an additional 3rd stop and probably a longer lay over in DCX

b) If the EK favorable example that they could fill a direct fly from one extreme to DCX, distributing the pax to several other continuing flights, but no direct flights were possibly for the end-countries airlines:

Example No.2: Marseille, France - Kunming, China An airline combination of the end countries can do it with 2 stops, as before

EK:
Marseille- DCX (probably a longer lay over)
DCX-Hong Kong (short lay over)
Hong Kong - Kunming
i.e. also 2 stops as above, but probably shorter lay over time

OTHER
======
The qualified personnel costs in the Gulf states are extremely high (maintenanc, flight, etc.)
Compared with non-stop flights, the EK uel costs will be possibly lower, but only as long the route is not longer. All the hub cost and the time dependent personnel costs will be higher to much higher.

aminobwana


User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 9018 times:

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 1):
.isn't that a bit TOO ambitious???

Not sure about Europe, but booking flights East of Dubai has been almost impossible lately...SIN, BKK, SYD, MEL, KUL. Even as a Gold Skywards member I had to be wailtlisted in May for a flight to AKL in December!


User currently offlineUAEflyer From United Arab Emirates, joined Nov 2006, 1149 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 8984 times:

I personally have a doubt in this article, but from my point of view, i think that being ambitious is not wrong, furthermore it doesn't cost money to talk and say i want to be the best in the world !!!
As my colleague stated, Within the next 10 years all EK fleet will be 2 to 3 years old. They are replacing their fleet and expanding at the same time. EK is owned by the Government yes, but i don't think the Government is paying something, they are busy with other investments in Europe and America, they keep buying stakes in huge companies in case any disaster happened regionally so the government can handle operation even if the region was under war.
Do you think that Dubai as rich as buying 100s of aircrafts and investing billions and building a new modern infrastructure at the same time, i as a citizen of Dubai highly doubt it


User currently offlineDrgmobile From Canada, joined Aug 2006, 682 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8598 times:

Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.,

Oh please, I've never met a pilot who *didn't* say his airline treated him like crap!


User currently offlineYOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 4905 posts, RR: 15
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 8569 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
This article seems to fly in the face of EK apologists on a.net

Not really. Having deep pockets ensures the ability to borrow at discounted rates rather than paying for metal in lump sums.

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
But it sure sounds as if he's a rich royal with a big bankroll, a bigger ego, and even bigger delusions of grandeur

Not at all. This is not about him this is about his vision for his people. The UAE has been lucky to have visionary leaders who weren't afraid to stick their necks out to try and make things happen. Many other countries would love to be so lucky.

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

If you're referring to pprune I would a) take it all with a huge pinch of salt and b) understand that the toxic postings on there fuel subsequent posters to make even dirtier postings.

YOWza



12A whenever possible.
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8452 times:

"...the London bombings from a few years ago didn't stop traveling to DXB...not to mention, many people from other places like going to DXB...add the business aspect of it (i.e.-banking, commerce, etc)..."

I respect what you're saying Jacobin777, the world rebounds quickly, but I was referring to a major disaster i.e. a 9/11 type event, or worse a dirty or nuclear bomb or something. I know that's probably not that likely, but with Iran supporting terror groups in Iraq and willingly be defiant to the world's wishes that they abandon their nuclear program. I'm just saying...

I hope something of that magnitude would never happen and EK can fully utilize all of these aircraft. I wish them luck  yes 



We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 8319 times:

Something that didn’t get mentioned in this article is something called “reality”. It’s great that Dubai has this massive bankroll, total financial security, the unlimited resources of a country and Sheikdom that want to catapult DXB into the 23rd Century and do it overnight. But what about reality? What happens when traffic falls off if it does? What happens when other airlines compete as aggressively as EK is now? What is UAE employment law like? Ie: EK employees, pensions, benefits, wages, and how is all that controlled? How much does EK pay for fuel? There are so many unanswered questions about EK specifically and the UAE in general that tells me that not all that glitters is gold. I don’t begrudge their growth and rising star; I do also implore everyone to realize that this is hardly a level playing field either and if you disagree, I’d respectfully say you are naïve or ignoring facts in evidence.

User currently offlineZKNEA From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 151 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 8224 times:

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
But what about reality?

These are all valid and sensible questions, and I'm sure they're the very ones asked by the banks etc that finance EK's aircraft purchases and with respect I'd trust their judgment and trust that their loans will be paid back than people on this forum. If there were so many questions about their future I would suspect it be very difficult to finance their aircraft privately, even despite government assurances (if there are any, which I'm sure there is).

Quoting B777ER (Reply 6):
Too bad many pilots for Emirates can't wait to leave....they are treated like crap. Just check the pilot forums on the web.

I've not met all that many that think that way, some have issues with housing allowances however they are generally the ones that decided to stay in private accommodation (as opposed to EK compounds). My two cents questions why anyone wouldn't live in EK accommodation as all electricity, rent etc is covered regardless of inflation etc which is not the case with those staying in private accommodation, especially problematic with the HUGE rate of inflation in Dubai at the moment.

Quoting Slider (Reply 19):
What happens when traffic falls off if it does?

If and when world airline traffic drops off I don't think EK will be alone with this problem, and they will just have to adjust to meet the market as many Asian airlines did during the Asian market crash, bird flu etc. However with their penetration in the Indian Subcontinent which has a rapidly growing economy/middle and upper classes/wealth and their pushes into East Asia/China I don't think that they would be as much affected as many other airlines with focuses on other markets.


User currently offlineFlysherwood From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 1115 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7786 times:

Quoting ZKNEA (Reply 20):
If and when world airline traffic drops off I don't think EK will be alone with this problem, and they will just have to adjust to meet the market as many Asian airlines did during the Asian market crash, bird flu etc. However with their penetration in the Indian Subcontinent which has a rapidly growing economy/middle and upper classes/wealth and their pushes into East Asia/China I don't think that they would be as much affected as many other airlines with focuses on other markets.

That would be true if there were no Indian Airlines to compete with. However, alas there are a number of airlines in the region to compete with.

As for Dubai becoming a more important hub then say London, Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo or New York, HOGWASH!!!
I am really happy for Dubai that they are a Regional Center for business in the Middle East. I know that the region is awash in cash and that hundreds of businesses are moving in. For all of that, the commerce in and between China, Japan, Singapore and the United States is more than five times the rest of the world COMBINED! I just read a statistic in the Pacific Shipper Monthly that at this time there is a 20' container of goods shipped to the US from China every two seconds. That is 15,379,200 20' containers a year. That is China to US only.

Many have asked what does this have to do with air travel? Well, having been doing business in Asia since 1986, that number of containers represents a hell of a lot of "face time" with suppliers.

Dubai for all of its ambitions, will NEVER be in the same league of Hong Kong, Singapore, Tokyo, Shanghai or New York in terms of importance to commerce!  Yeah sure


User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6912 posts, RR: 34
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting ZKNEA (Reply 20):
These are all valid and sensible questions, and I'm sure they're the very ones asked by the banks etc that finance EK's aircraft purchases and with respect I'd trust their judgment and trust that their loans will be paid back than people on this forum. If there were so many questions about their future I would suspect it be very difficult to finance their aircraft privately, even despite government assurances (if there are any, which I'm sure there is).

Come on...

If you think EK has the same challenges of getting capital financing as say a US legacy carrier, I have some swampland in Louisiana to sell you.

They're a pseudo state run carrier, with infinitely deep pockets. There's zero chance of default. No risk for a lender given collateral and covenant agreements that can be struck.


User currently offlineZak From Greenland, joined Sep 2003, 1993 posts, RR: 8
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7533 times:

Quoting Flysherwood (Reply 21):
For all of that, the commerce in and between China, Japan, Singapore and the United States is more than five times the rest of the world COMBINED

so how come germany used to #1 in exports for decades and is still head to head with china(whom recently overtook germany)? after all you didnt include germany into your equation yet it plays a HUGE role in worldwide trade



10=2
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3553 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 7418 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 10):
As to needing Aussie permission for LAX-SYD, I don't know for sure how the rules work, but I don't think that they would. Australia can't control who flies IN to Australia, as far as I know; indeed, they can't control people like Singapore flying ON to the USA. What it can do is stop them selling tickets in Australia for any onward flights. Seems to me that that wouldn't apply to Emirates west-bound since they already have established services to and from Australia ex- DXB?

EK would absolutely need Australia's (and the US's) permission to sell tickets from LAX-SYD. Just look at what AC and SQ have tried to do on the route, and Australia has basically put those plans on hold indefinitely (especially with SQ). The US in general has been very lenient in granting 5th freedom rights, but Australia in general has not, especially with a high value route like LAX-SYD.

But I do agree that the major hole in EK's expansion plans would be any trans-Pacific routes. EK would really need a Pacific Rim country that would be willing to allow it to fly anywhere with full 5th freedom rights, and that is difficult to foresee happening.

And in regards to LAX-DXB service, Emirates has specifically requested that Boeing be able to deliver a 748i that can fly that specific route with a full payload. Not sure Boeing will be able to pull it off.


25 Post contains images Flysherwood : First, I didn't mean to slight Germany in anyway. Germany was # 1 in exports in terms of value but not volume due to the fact that Germany produces m
26 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..I get your point.. ...however, if one was to take that approach, we would never see innovation, risk, etc... I'm not wearing blindfolds as I do bel
27 Post contains images Lightsaber : A bit of a biased and unsubstantiated article. If you follow the money, EK subsidizes Dubai, not the other way around. Yes, they use soverign debt to
28 YOWza : I am truly curious to know what percentage of the many Dubai naysayers on this forum have ever set foot in the Emirate. Dubai is a unique, bizarre and
29 GlobalATL : Do they have a world-class airport and the infrastructure to handle such a task?
30 DCA-ROCguy : Interesting thread. I haven't looked into the EK threads before, but just from what I read in this one I'll note this: any airline, anywhere, ordering
31 Bofredrik : Many companies have done wrong when it is to much focused on expansion. Ryanair is one example... It is easy to forget what you have here and now. Do
32 AeroWesty : I have no doubt Emirates will continue to be a huge and respected airline, but even the article seems to note that one of its strengths is connecting
33 Post contains images Flysherwood : Well said. And that is the point that I am trying to make. The goal of surpassing Hong Kong or Singapore, while ambitious and/or ridiculous whichever
34 Wsp : deleted The message you were about to post is too short and probably not of any higher value to the topic at hand. You should think long and hard befo
35 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..but they are not trying to be the next Hong Kong or Singapore per se.....they are taking advantage of what's unique to their situation....location,
36 RomeoKC10FE : I read an article that said they are trying to turn the U.A.E into THE toursit attraction of the Middle East due to their dwindling oil supplies, have
37 Post contains images Flysherwood : We will see what happens when the 787 starts to come out in force. Especially for the Indian Airlines that have ordered it. Time will tell who was ri
38 Wsp : Thats why tourist season in Dubai is in winter.
39 Post contains images Flysherwood : There is no doubt that they will be THE regional hub for commerce in the Middle East. But to compare it to Hong Kong or Singapore is LAUGHABLE. Do yo
40 AeroWesty : I don't understand how that addressed what you quoted from my post.
41 Post contains images Lightsaber : The rebuilt/relocated 2nd runway and new terminal should help. I'd love to see a chick skinhead next to a burka... that would amuse the heck out of m
42 Post contains images Mariner : This is a very confusing thread. A stable, Middle Eastern country, with a remarkable record of success but with no nuclear or military ambitions, has
43 Post contains links and images Jacobin777 : .....DXB does get a bit hot there during the winter....Feb-April is the best time to go there..unfortunately, kids have school, etc...but if possible
44 CALPSAFltSkeds : I don't get it. DXB is not well suited to challenge LHR, NYC or SIN to be a huge hub. The map shows that connection traffic isn't going to be generate
45 Flysherwood : There are two hubs that already serve the West Coast from India. They are called Singapore and Hong Kong. So it is EK versus Singapore Airlines and C
46 Post contains images Flysherwood : The Sheik was.
47 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..obviously he's going to try to hype is city/product up.. ..but from discussions here on A.net, no one is biting...
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