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Aegean Expands, Olympic Is Watching!  
User currently offlineATHYEG333 From Greece, joined Jun 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 2658 times:

Hi!

While Aegean Airlines posts a 40 million euros profit and an increase in passenger traffic of 11%

in 2006,Greece's flag carrier Olympic Airlines is losing nearly 1 million euros a day, posting an

annual loss of 380 million euros in 2006! Olympic is also facing charges from the EU for illegally

receiving state subsidies of 540 million euros! Facing crucial problems (fleet, cash flow,

declining market share) what exactly the Greek government plans to do? Does anyone know anything

about that? On the contrary, Aegean expands adding new routes and ordering new planes

( A320 - A321). Last week Aegean also completed its IPO in the Athens Stock Exchange!

It's very sad seeing Olympic, a great carrier of the past to operate in such a desperate way!!!

Thanks!

37 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2584 times:

You cant compare A3 and OA. A3 has not got the problems of years of government corruption or draining it dry!!! OA in fact is amazing how it has survived. The main reason I think that the Greek government kept plying money into OA is because they were all getting their freebies out of it and it would be political suicide to let it collapse!!!

Anyway back in 2006 OA got a lifeline so dont expect to see them going bust just yet. People have been saying OA are going to go bust since 1990 and even before. Time will tell but OA has been very quiet at the moment as they are re structuring everything. Things are not tragic just yet but it could go either way. Heres hoping for better times. The new website is a big improvement and Summer loads on their key EU routes are very promising.

Article re: Greek government ordered to pay money.

The Associated PressPublished: December 20, 2006

ATHENS, Greece: A Greek court Wednesday awarded struggling national carrier Olympic Airlines €563.9 million ($744.5 million) in compensation for unpaid services provided to the Greek state, the airline said.

The ruling could ease pressure on Olympic from the European Commission, which has ordered the airline to return more than €700 million ($924 million) in illegal state subsidies.

In a statement late Wednesday, airline division Olympic Airways Services SA said “the decision of the arbitration court vindicates the position of (the company).”

Olympic claimed the compensation for unpaid services to the airline on legally subsidized routes to remote Greek islands, travel for senior government officials and conscripts, and relocation to a new airport outside Athens in 2001.

Transport Minister Michalis Liapis said the court’s decision would help the Greek government in its legal wrangle with the Commission.


User currently offlineBaexecutive From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2005, 757 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 2583 times:

I think its time Olympic 'rolled over' died and was replaced by Aegean as flag carrier for Greece

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

Quoting Baexecutive (Reply 2):
I think its time Olympic 'rolled over' died and was replaced by Aegean as flag carrier for Greece

A3 will never be Greece's flag carrier. If anything if OA goes bust A3 will stay the same and foreign carriers like LH will become more familier at ATH .


User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1845 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 2475 times:

It's sad to read such stories of OA. I've always felt their livery was among the most beautiful in the skies. I'm going to Athens & Rhodes this summer (as well as an excursion to Turkey) and have chosen to fly A3 while in Greece. OA was twice the price on all the routes I needed. Maybe someday!

TUNisia



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 2330 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
A3 will never be Greece's flag carrier.

I dunno about that, they already have the flag on their planes!!

Quoting OA260 (Reply 3):
If anything if OA goes bust A3 will stay the same and foreign carriers like LH will become more familier at ATH .

LHand Air One are the most likely to be seen making more of an appearance in ATH, although from friends that work at most of the greek ethnic tour operators and travel agencies, OA is petrified of the new DL and CO's new offerings into ATH, not to mention US Airways' seasonal 762.



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2239 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
I dunno about that, they already have the flag on their planes!!

Thats because they are Greek. If I set up a new airline tomorrow with 2 A320's I would have the Greek flag on it too. Doesnt make me the flag carrier.

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 5):
OA is petrified

A bit OTT if you ask me . US carriers have always been on the Greece to USA routes and it hasnt done too much damage. I wouldnt worry about US anyway. OA if far better than their offering.


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 2216 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
OA if far better than their offering.

Hehe, OA isnot petrified of US, but they are of CO and the new DL



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineATHYEG333 From Greece, joined Jun 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

I think the Greek government should find a solution as soon as possible or Olympic should
close for good! There are no improvements in Olympic for years. It is open because it has to,
eating Greek taxpayer's money just for each government's shake. Political rather operational
reasons keep Olympic open! There is no business plan! Even planes required for the summer
are leased in last minute! There is no long term planning at these leases resulting Olympic
(and the taxpayers) to pay double and triple the money for these planes! I don't mind if Greece
has or not a flag carrier, I just don't like to pay taxes for a company with no business plan
and enormous debt. If LH, BA or A3 could replace Olympic's network I'd be glad!
Olympic WAS a great airline, today it is not!


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2112 times:

Maybe they should sell it to TK -at least the Turks know how to manage Turkish Airlines and make it profitable.  Wink
There is a small but viable market for an intercontinental Airline based in Athens.
About ten longhaul-aircraft ( but with focus on USA,Africa and China -forget Australia..) and twenty to thirty medium size aircraft plus ten regionals would be enough.
Since nobody really wants Olympic ( AZ has at least one bidder left..!! ) one should call it a day and close the venture .
Rebuild it on sound practice and realistic business plan assumptions.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2102 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
Maybe they should sell it to TK -at least the Turks know how to manage Turkish Airlines and make it profitable.

Err why TK and not another EU carrier???? What makes TK your choice more than the other 30 or so airlines that may be able to run it better!!!


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 2088 times:

Because the Turkish are very similar in terms of culture and character to the Greek..( even if many of your compatriots will disagree on this observation..)
No European Airline would like to burn their fingers on Olympic.
It's a provocative thesis,I know - but having travelled a lot in the region I stand to my assessment ,that both countries have a lot more in common than what many think..
The business-dynamic of Turkey could be a good thing for Greece if companies would dare to get a little closer and co-operate instead of maintaining old hostile ideas.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2081 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 11):
No European Airline would like to burn their fingers on Olympic.

I doubt TK would look at OA for the same reason of getting their fingers burnt. Anyway not worth talking about because it will never happen.

OA will either re structure which is what is going on now ''behind the scenes'' something that people dont seem to have understood . If this time it does not work then most likely it will just close down and they would keep Olympic Aviation under another name to secure intra island flights which are guranteed by the government as a essential service. They actually could turn OA around with some decent management decisions but this is Greece and even though its come along way there are still many problems with the old mind set.


User currently offlineATHYEG333 From Greece, joined Jun 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2073 times:

WHATTTT?????

I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic. Aegean could take over the management of Olympic! It's a
succesful airline anyway! Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?


User currently offlineAad665 From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 2021 times:

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
WHATTTT?????

I thought this i a thread about Aegean and Olympic! What made you think that Greeks
and Turks have anything in common? What do you know? Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic. Aegean could take over the management of Olympic! It's a
succesful airline anyway! Or do you think that TK can be compared with LH?

Hi,

You didn't have your Turkish coffee this morning?

Relax...

aad665


User currently offlineSergioAEE From Greece, joined Jun 2006, 45 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 2014 times:

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Thread starter):
Hi!

While Aegean Airlines posts a 40 million euros profit and an increase in passenger traffic of 11%

in 2006,Greece's flag carrier Olympic Airlines is losing nearly 1 million euros a day, posting an

annual loss of 380 million euros in 2006! Olympic is also facing charges from the EU for illegally

receiving state subsidies of 540 million euros! Facing crucial problems (fleet, cash flow,

declining market share) what exactly the Greek government plans to do? Does anyone know anything

about that? On the contrary, Aegean expands adding new routes and ordering new planes

( A320 - A321). Last week Aegean also completed its IPO in the Athens Stock Exchange!

It's very sad seeing Olympic, a great carrier of the past to operate in such a desperate way!!!

Thanks!

Aegean would not be at half the mark they are if they were a normal airline. Their pilots are literally slaves and get paid NOTHING! and if Aegean werent financially backed by 3 banks then I would like to know what profits they would make. I work at the operations at ATH and I guarantee you that they are a horrible airline in terms of their ops. Olympic makes aegean look funny in someways!

SergioAEE


User currently offlineATHYEG333 From Greece, joined Jun 2007, 104 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 9 hours ago) and read 1987 times:

To SergioAEE

I agree with you that Aegean is not the GREAT airline that is being promoted as! But
indeed has an operating profit, a business plan and anyway it has not the mess that
Olympic faces mostly every summer. I like to see Olympic reorganized, keeping 2 to 4
long haul routes and cut some of its unprofitable short haul routes. I just can't see
anymore Olympic operating like this!!!

To aad665

I am relaxed but I can't see the relationship between Aegean, Olympic and Greeks being
similar to Turks! It's airlines' stuff, not politics all the time!!!


User currently offlineAC888YOW From Canada, joined Jan 2005, 536 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 1944 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 6):
A bit OTT if you ask me . US carriers have always been on the Greece to USA routes and it hasnt done too much damage. I wouldnt worry about US anyway. OA if far better than their offering.

OA may be far better in terms of aircraft (343) and amenities (PTV, etc.), but they should indeed be worried about US.

When I booked the price difference for a transatlantic flight between the two was almost $400 Canadian dollars, and US earned my business over OA because of that. The fact that I can fly from YOW instead of driving to YUL, and the fact that I will earn upwards of 10k Star Alliance mileage also helped the decision.


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 27251 posts, RR: 60
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 1889 times:

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 17):
I will earn upwards of 10k Star Alliance mileage also helped the decision.

Well I can understand your point there. Im Star Alliance Gold and would probably make the same choice to get another 10K . But for those who are not into FFP I would deffo go OA.


User currently offlineEmbajador3 From Spain, joined Aug 2006, 318 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1841 times:

Aegean's livery is boring, however i like its logo on the aircraft's tail. More colour and bigger titles, would make it more attractive. I LOVE Olympic's livery, it's kind of classy and adecuate, showing their true Greek spirit.

Rgds



Flying Together
User currently offlineCa2ohhp From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 955 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1819 times:

I've got to say I flew A3 last month ATH-JMK-ATH and both flights were amazing. Really attentive cabin crews, spotless cabins and very very friendly airport staff. I've heard a rumor that A3 may begin codesharing with US Airways by next summer. I can't say anything about OA, but I was definitely very impressed with A3 and the Greek people.

User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1810 times:

I guess I will NEVER understand how a government can subsidize a company - especially an airline - with such amounts. These are tax payer monies ! This is money even Aegean employees paid to the government.

This kind of acting is hurting the private sector ! Imagine all the money the state put into OA and AZ ! This is amazing and completely senseless. I regret to say this - especially for the OA and AZ employees.
But just consider the market - if OA is shut down - do you think routes, market and demand for the OA routes will get lost ? Most of the market will be taken over by private, profitable airlines. This will offer enough jobs for OA employees.
Just take the 500+700+ + + million the state put into OA.
How long could you pay the OA employees out of that ? Without operating the airline ?

For me the only solution for OA and AZ is: shut them down. And let the market do the rest. It is NOT the task of the government to interfere. Maybe OA gets up just as SN did ?


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 1797 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 9):
About ten longhaul-aircraft ( but with focus on USA,Africa and China -forget Australia..) and twenty to thirty medium size aircraft plus ten regionals would be enough.

This actually sounds about right.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 10):
Err why TK and not another EU carrier????

It could be TK (who I know have a successful hub operation in effect, a modern fleet and are indeed profitable) or any other airline like LH, A3, hell even SA)">CO has looked into the matter, but has declined any action as of now.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
Are you living in Greece or
Turkey to know something like that? Ya alright, Lebanese people are very similar to
people from Israel? How does this sound? This is an airliners forum not a political one.

Whoa ATHYEG...relax bro, He was not turning the thread into a political issue. He was merely stating that another airline within the SAME region, which happens to be successful, could perhaps operate OA, or a new startup better than the greek government.

Quoting ATHYEG333 (Reply 13):
As for TK they are not a good airliner either and in terms of safety they cannot even
compare with Olympic.

Can you state some instances of this?

Quoting AC888YOW (Reply 17):
OA may be far better in terms of aircraft (343) and amenities (PTV, etc.), but they should indeed be worried about US.

OA is worried about ALL entrants into their turf at AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH, although from a service point of view they are terrified of SA)">CO and the new DL, while US is just another capacity drainer on them.

Quoting Embajador3 (Reply 19):
Aegean's livery is boring, however i like its logo on the aircraft's tail.

Are you implying that this alone makes an airline successful?

Quoting Ca2ohhp (Reply 20):
Really attentive cabin crews, spotless cabins and very very friendly airport staff. I've heard a rumor that A3 may begin codesharing with US Airways by next summer.

A3 is indeed in talks with US, as well as with DL AND SA)">CO, and also looking at Homeric Tours in NYC to be a North American "distributor" of sorts.

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 21):
But just consider the market - if OA is shut down - do you think routes, market and demand for the OA routes will get lost ?

Chiguire my friend, how the hell are ya?

If OA were to shut down, either the market in AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH would right size itself, or we would see additions form not only Aegean, but definately from their Partners in LH, and AirOne.



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineChiguire From Venezuela, joined Sep 2004, 2005 posts, RR: 16
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1783 times:

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 22):
Chiguire my friend, how the hell are ya?

Fine, waiting for U to come to CCS !  Wink

Quoting WesternA318 (Reply 22):
If OA were to shut down, either the market in AND CURRENT: Athens - Eleftherios Venizelos (Spata) (ATH / LGAV), Greece">ATH would right size itself, or we would see additions form not only Aegean, but definately from their Partners in LH, and AirOne.

That's what I was saying. What does the Greek government need to put money into OA then ?


User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5713 posts, RR: 24
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 1772 times:

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
Fine, waiting for U to come to CCS !

Yanno, I have to make that up to you guys, how was the meet?

Quoting Chiguire (Reply 23):
That's what I was saying. What does the Greek government need to put money into OA then ?

I think they still believe OA can be used as a political toy.



Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
25 Beaucaire : There is no intention whatsoever to turn this political- but believe it or not I have spend a lot of time working in and with both countries -both of
26 Post contains links ATHYEG333 : To WesternA318 About safety and incidents for OA and TK look at http://www.airdisaster.com/statistics/. I don't see how the same region factor contrib
27 Post contains images ATHYEG333 : To Beaucaire You can buy a CD from Shakira also in Greece. Do you think that Greek have anything in common with Colombians? I agree with you that Turk
28 Post contains images Beaucaire : Most likely the Russians would make the company very profitable... They turned around Aeroflot within three years and now the company is out to buy o
29 Post contains images TurkishWings : Wow... Chill to start with... Secondly we have millions of things in common... You can't, nobody can, deny it... We have been living side by side for
30 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : National pride has no room in the marketplace this day in age. If TK is better adept to running an airline than so be it. It can be seen in recent ye
31 Post contains links Laxintl : Turkish Airlines is far from a 2nd rate airline as you would like to make them out as, matter of fact they are on par if not better then many Europea
32 Post contains images OA260 : LOL.......Sarbel is much better !!!! Thats why you posted it !!! I did wonder !!! True but many differences also. I have cant imagine TK taking over
33 ATHYEG333 : Well sometimes you have to look carefully in the topic title. It says Aegean expands, Olympic is Watching! It is not a comparison between Olympic and
34 PanAm747 : As was mentioned in several previous threads about Olympic and Alitalia, the merging would be, and I quote, "a Greek tragedy with Italian subtitles".
35 Post contains images OA260 : Thats Macedonians for you !!! No loyalty LOL...... On another note, OA are looking at fleet renewal coupled with a serious business plan. Lets hope t
36 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : Sorry I miss the good ole' days of the 747-200 and the JFK-ATH flight! -JD
37 Post contains images WesternA318 : Not to mention Baklava... Not really, nowadays, ethnic heritage is not as important in the marketplace as is what level of seriousness and experience
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