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ANA 737 To Russia; 788 Replace 744 To FRA  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7846 times:

http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20070709-00000401-yom-bus_all

ANA unveiled another 787 route. This time, Frankfurt. It'll replace 747-400 service on Tokyo - Frankfurt by 2009, but frequency will be 2 daily.

Also, 737-700 will be flying to Russia, primarily Moscow and St. Petersburg by 2009.

33 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7806 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
It'll replace 747-400 service on Tokyo - Frankfurt by 2009, but frequency will be 2 daily.

And yet NRT is slot restricted and FRA is over-crowded. How can this be?

Over twice the cargo, more flexibility, more frequency... must be of some value to somebody...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineAddd From United States of America, joined May 2007, 397 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7708 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Also, 737-700 will be flying to Russia, primarily Moscow and St. Petersburg by 2009

737 from Japan to Moscow/St Petersburg? It is 4050 nautical miles between Tokyo and Moscow - I know it is technically with the range of a 737-700ER, but isn't that a litlle too far for a small narrow-body?


User currently offlinePanAm747LHR From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 232 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7694 times:

Quoting Addd (Reply 2):
737 from Japan to Moscow/St Petersburg? It is 4050 nautical miles between Tokyo and Moscow - I know it is technically with the range of a 737-700ER, but isn't that a litlle too far for a small narrow-body?

ANA will configure their 737s much the way Air France has configured the A319s in their Dedicate fleet - with about 50% business class and 50% coach, and both will roughly be equivalent to their long haul product for these classes.
Here's the layout. http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/eng/int/...ight/seatmap/b737_700er/index.html
Hope that helps out!

Nick


User currently offlineBehramjee From Canada, joined Aug 2003, 4750 posts, RR: 43
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 7695 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
Also, 737-700 will be flying to Russia, primarily Moscow and St. Petersburg by 2009.

i believe this is the all business class B 737-700X with 36 J class seats only that will be used for the NRT-DME route.


User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7597 times:

Not 1 but 3 routes for ANA 787:

New York for additional frequency increase
Mumbai (by 2009 to replace 737-700ER)

http://www.yomiuri.co.jp/tabi/news/20070709tb02.htm


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17339 posts, RR: 46
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 7580 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
And yet NRT is slot restricted and FRA is over-crowded. How can this be?

I'm glad I'm not an A380 salesman right about now Silly



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7378 times:

I had hopes they would bring the 787 to DUS and keep FRA 773. DUS has the biggest Japanese community in Europe and most major Japanese corporations have their head office in the region. ANA even offers a dedicated Bus service for its passengers from DUS to FRA.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7360 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
Quoting Jimyvr (Thread starter):
It'll replace 747-400 service on Tokyo - Frankfurt by 2009, but frequency will be 2 daily.

And yet NRT is slot restricted and FRA is over-crowded. How can this be?

..they just don't know what they are doing....think about it, they are also down-guaging NRT-LHR too.....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7360 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 7):
DUS has the biggest Japanese community in Europe and most major Japanese corporations have their head office in the region. ANA even offers a dedicated Bus service for its passengers from DUS to FRA

But what is the cargo facility like at DUS? That is part of the story...



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineJoFMO From Germany, joined Jul 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 7290 times:

FRA-NRT will become an interesting route. LH mentioned that they might use the A380 to NRT. So we then will see 2 ANA 787 vs 1 LH 380.
I hope both strategies work out for them.


User currently offlineTreeHillRavens From Malaysia, joined Jun 2007, 394 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 7135 times:

Quoting PanAm747LHR (Reply 3):
ANA will configure their 737s much the way Air France has configured the A319s in their Dedicate fleet - with about 50% business class and 50% coach, and both will roughly be equivalent to their long haul product for these classes.
Here's the layout. http://www.ana.co.jp/wws/us/eng/int/....html

The ANA B737-700ER however, is a more premium configured plane. Club ANA comes with lie-flat Business seat (65" pitch) while the Premium Economy section has 38" pitch.


User currently offlineFVTu134 From Russia, joined Aug 2005, 173 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6893 times:

With Toyota about to open a plant in St Petersburg, and Nissan plant under construction (and talk about a Mitsubishi and Suzuki Plant) the Japanese business community in St Petersburg is on the rise (along with a lot of Japanese suppliers also opening up shop). This is probably why they are opening up shop with a small but good business offering.

FVTu134



who decided that a Horizon should be HORIZONtal???
User currently offlineDanny From Poland, joined Apr 2002, 3508 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 6878 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
And yet NRT is slot restricted and FRA is over-crowded. How can this be?

Over twice the cargo, more flexibility, more frequency... must be of some value to somebody...

Or simply no alternative... until they get A380.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8864 posts, RR: 75
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 6834 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 13):

Or simply no alternative... until they get A380.

Which Japanense carrier was in the news recently looking at the A380 ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineAaron747 From Japan, joined Aug 2003, 8021 posts, RR: 26
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6566 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
..they just don't know what they are doing....think about it, they are also down-guaging NRT-LHR too.....

Yes, they don't know what they're doing...which is why in 20 years they've gone from a relatively minor player in Japan to the most respected and profitable airline company in the country.  Yeah sure



If you need someone to blame / throw a rock in the air / you'll hit someone guilty
User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1916 posts, RR: 7
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 6453 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 1):
And yet NRT is slot restricted and FRA is over-crowded. How can this be?

They could have axed a flight from FRA to another destination to free up a slot for FRA.....

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineNaritaflyer From Japan, joined Apr 2006, 549 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

Quoting Aaron747 (Reply 15):
Yes, they don't know what they're doing...which is why in 20 years they've gone from a relatively minor player in Japan to the most respected and profitable airline company in the country.

ANA is my favourite airline in the world bar none. You can say all you want about Singapore or Emirates, In my opinion they don't come close to ANA in service. No need to hijack this thread by getting into an argument as to which is airline is better yada yada yada... all I want to say is that it's unfair to say that management doesn't know what it's doing by downgauging flights to 787s.


User currently offlineMax999 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 1028 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 5):
Not 1 but 3 routes for ANA 787:

New York for additional frequency increase

Wow! JFK will be one of the first airports in the world getting multiple 787's. The ANA flight and the NW flight. NW has confirmed that their first 787 flight will be JFK-NRT.



All the things I really like to do are either immoral, illegal, or fattening.
User currently offlineYanksn4 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 1404 posts, RR: 12
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 6195 times:

Quoting Jimyvr (Reply 5):
Not 1 but 3 routes for ANA 787:

New York for additional frequency increase
Mumbai (by 2009 to replace 737-700ER)

still hoping for an announcement of operations to DEN.  pray 



2013 Airports: EWR, JFK, LGA, LIS, AGP, DEN, GIG, RGN, BKK, LHR, FRA, LAX, SYD, PER, MEL, MCO, MIA, PEK, IAH
User currently offlineSpacecadet From United States of America, joined Sep 2001, 3607 posts, RR: 12
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 6014 times:

Quoting Naritaflyer (Reply 19):
ANA is my favourite airline in the world bar none. You can say all you want about Singapore or Emirates, In my opinion they don't come close to ANA in service. No need to hijack this thread by getting into an argument as to which is airline is better yada yada yada... all I want to say is that it's unfair to say that management doesn't know what it's doing by downgauging flights to 787s.

ANA is a great airline, but honestly I don't think they're that much better than JAL despite the divergent reputations. In fact, JAL went way above and beyond what I'd have expected of any airline in retrieving a lost jacket that I'd left on a plane for me the last time I went to Japan. They practically got the entire terminal working to find my jacket (and they did).

I personally think downsizing from a 744 to a 787 is short-sighted. Let me tell you about my last trip to Japan. I normally fly ANA, and back when they flew 744's JFK-NRT, there was enough space that you could get a ticket fairly cheaply up until a few weeks before the flight. They'd always sell out eventually, but not that early. My last trip, though, with the smaller 777 now on that route, their ticket prices were totally janked like 2 months in advance. Way higher than anybody else. I ended up flying JAL, which still runs 744's on that route (not for much longer, I know), because they were cheaper and I figured they couldn't be *that* much different. And I had a good experience on JAL, and I will fly them again. So, that's a net minus for ANA right there, because I fly to Japan about once a year. Short term they've gained some fuel savings, but long term they're pushing their pax to other carriers.

As price conscious as passengers are (though service does matter to me), I think it's stupid to be purposely downsizing to planes that are clearly too small for the routes they're serving. Customer loyalty only goes so far - once somebody is forced to fly another airline and has a good experience with them, they may no longer be so loyal.

It would be one thing if ANA really *could* increase frequency and just do two trips per day to cities like JFK instead of one... but they can't. If you *can* sell X number of seats per day, then you need to be selling X number of seats per day to wrap up those customers and not some number smaller than X in the name of short term fuel savings.



I'm tired of being a wanna-be league bowler. I wanna be a league bowler!
User currently offlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9159 posts, RR: 29
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 4 days ago) and read 6008 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 9):
But what is the cargo facility like at DUS? That is part of the story...

state of the art, can handle anything and receives weekly EK 747Fs Big local catchment area and even the connectivity improves as DUS has a lot of direct flights all over Europe and DUS is emerging as the #3 airport in Germany but it'snot a *hub



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineJoost From Netherlands, joined Apr 2005, 3161 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 5757 times:

Quoting Spacecadet (Reply 27):
I personally think downsizing from a 744 to a 787 is short-sighted.

They are not downsizing. They are replacing one daily 744 by a two daily 788s, which is actually a capacity increase.


User currently offlineMD-90 From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 8502 posts, RR: 12
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 5548 times:

Quoting Danny (Reply 13):

Or simply no alternative... until they get A380.

If they need the cargo uplift, an A380 would be even worse than the 744.


User currently offlineStylo777 From Germany, joined Feb 2006, 2952 posts, RR: 12
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 5442 times:

Quoting JoFMO (Reply 10):
ANA 787 vs 1 LH 380.

LH A380 vs. 2x NH B787 vs. JL 77W  Wink


25 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....er, I was taking the piss....
26 Ikramerica : They fly the 744 now. They already have an alternative to two 788s They could get A380s in 2010 if they wanted, if it was that urgent. What I mean is
27 Spacecadet : They've said that's their plan, but plans and reality often don't meet, especially when you're dealing with slot-limited airports. They *have* reduce
28 Aaron747 : You're forgetting something crucial about the Japanese market. JAL has 10 flights a week that are full because they have longstanding agreements with
29 Zvezda : For the airline, it is much better to sell somewhat fewer tickets at "totally jacked" prices than to sell a few more tickets at a loss.
30 Pellegrine : This has been ANA's strategy recently. They're trying to increase profits by using smaller a/c to improve yields...and it's working for them. In J/F
31 PanHAM : In these days, with handling agents all over and no airline making the physical handling themselves, it does not really make a difference. You pay se
32 Post contains images Airbuseric : Nothing really special on this. JL does a same service in full dedicated JAL-bus from BRU to AMS. It can just be seen as a feederservice for own pass
33 SailorOrion : First of all, LH is not going to send A380s to NRT in a hurry, because traffic rights between Germany and Japan are not on a flight basis, but on a se
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