Sponsor Message:
Civil Aviation Forum
My Starred Topics | Profile | New Topic | Forum Index | Help | Search 
Muslim Booted Off Flight For Asking To Pray  
User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15599 times:

http://icnewcastle.icnetwork.co.uk/s...424703&siteid=50081-name_page.html

Hmmm....surely the eejit could have prayed in the departure lounge or at least waited until he got to Malaga? But I suppose booting him off the flight was a total over reaction as well.


When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
187 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15575 times:

Sounds like they over reacted, but at the same time, what the heck? "Hold on, can everyone just wait and stop the whole boarding/ pushback/takeoff thing while I pray?" I don't think so, mate.

User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15575 times:

To be honest he could have waited until he got to AGP or done it in NCL. With the heightened tentions after last week he should have made allowances. Why stir up something when he knew it would provoke a reaction!!! Is there no prayer room for all religions in NCL??? I know some airports have them. Whilst he has a right to pray the airline also has the right to deny boarding but they would have been better just refusing him access to the galley as this is a staff area.

User currently offlineGkirk From UK - Scotland, joined Jun 2000, 24936 posts, RR: 56
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15537 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
Is there no prayer room for all religions in NCL???

There is one located in the terminal building.
http://www.newcastleairport.com/Airport+Facilities/prayer-room.htm



When you hear the noise of the Tartan Army Boys, we'll be coming down the road!
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15524 times:

Quoting Avt007 (Reply 1):
Sounds like they over reacted, but at the same time, what the heck? "Hold on, can everyone just wait and stop the whole boarding/ pushback/takeoff thing while I pray?" I don't think so, mate.



Quoting Gkirk (Reply 3):
There is one located in the terminal building.
http://www.newcastleairport.com/Airp...m.htm

Well then there is really no excuse. Sounds like he was trying to make a statement!! Something that isnt welcome. He is on a British airline and should respect local laws. The same way a Catholic or Hindu has no right to pray in a galley.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 15449 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
Sounds like he was trying to make a statement!!

Given recent events I would say he was pushing his luck!


User currently offlineAvt007 From Canada, joined Jul 2000, 2132 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15397 times:

Chances are he was just a young guy who hadn't flown much before, if at all, and didn't realize you just can't kneel in the galley for 10 minutes while they are getting ready for a flight. Add to that a jumpy flight crew, and presto! A big news story.

User currently offlineQatarA340 From Qatar, joined May 2006, 1840 posts, RR: 9
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15353 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 2):
To be honest he could have waited until he got to AGP or done it in NCL. With the heightened tentions after last week he should have made allowances. Why stir up something when he knew it would provoke a reaction!!! Is there no prayer room for all religions in NCL??? I know some airports have them. Whilst he has a right to pray the airline also has the right to deny boarding but they would have been better just refusing him access to the galley as this is a staff area.

If I want to pray on planes, I usually pray while seated down. We dont have to knell down if we can't do that... Praying is obligatory 5 times a day for all Muslims. But, the way the man shouldve prayed was sitting down and not making a scene in front of people. Or at least pray at home.

When Muslims travel, Islam allows them to shortren their praying and combine 2 prayings in to one shorterned one, so that the person does not have to pray as often. This is one of the blessings of Islam.



لا اله الا الله محمد رسول الله
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15321 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
Praying is obligatory 5 times a day for all Muslims

Yes I know from my time spent in Iran. As you said he could have done it whilst seated. I think it all comes down to compromise and common sense on both sides.


User currently offlineACEregular From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2003, 676 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15220 times:

I have seen many people of different race and religions happily praying in thier seats, only once has someone asked me if they could pray anywhere else but his seat - a Jewish Man. They did this in the galley however we did not leave him to his own devices. I see the Galley as a staff room, I would not walk into the staff room of a shop or ask to have unsupervised access to it. There is no way I would let anyone regardless of race in the galley with privacy and curtain, they could be doing anything in there. Crew keep personal items in there and also its full of products which the crew are responsible for. This also brings me to my next rant, why is it Passengers think they can just stand there while we are eating our dinner and spark up conversation. I am going to try it next time I am in a shop or something, and see how long it takes before I get kicked out.

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15173 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
is on a British airline and should respect local laws. The same way a Catholic or Hindu has no right to pray in a galley

Law has nothing to do with it. Common sense is all that prevails in this instance. And who was to say that this guy wasn't British anyway.....?

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15155 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Law has nothing to do with it. Common sense is all that prevails in this instance. And who was to say that this guy wasn't British anyway.....?

You missed the point. It cant be safe for someone to be taking up the galley praying when the crew are carrying out their duties. Its small enough to work in as it is. Then it would become a health and safety issue. Being a British plane UK health and safety rules would apply.


User currently offlineFlyingAY From Finland, joined Jun 2007, 702 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15123 times:

Come on, this guy could have been on his first flight ever - how could we know? And at least he asked before just wandering off to the galley. I would think, that the cabin personnel would have been exactly the right person to contact, and it would have just been polite for the FA to explain that the galley is not for passengers and that unfortunately they couldn't arrange a quiet place for the man.

I wonder if the person asking had been a local elderly woman instead - probably she could've stayed in the plane.

This is just a dangerous path - soon we'll see somebody kicked out because of asking security related questions or for a one bottle of water!


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15115 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 11):

Actually you failed to state your reference was to anything other than UK Law. So if the point was missed it was due to your rather vague post, more than anything else.

And anyway, sorry, but H&S laws were not what got him kicked off the plane. That was gross overreaction (arguably justified in this climate nonetheless) by the crew.

Lets not confuse this issue.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 15093 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 10):
Quoting OA260 (Reply 4):
is on a British airline and should respect local laws. The same way a Catholic or Hindu has no right to pray in a galley

Law has nothing to do with it. Common sense is all that prevails in this instance. And who was to say that this guy wasn't British anyway.....?

To an extent Law does enter into this matter. After all avaition law affords the Captain of an aircraft complete discretion to remove a passenger (or crew member for that matter) as he or she sees fit.

While to my mind the article was too generalised and did not carry enough information. I find it hard to believe that the man was removed from the flight simply for asking to pray. Did for example, the man in question go into the galley without permission and only asked cabin crew after they found him there? Did he at first perhaps refuse to take no for an answer? We don't know.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15081 times:

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 14):
To an extent Law does enter into this matter. After all avaition law affords the Captain of an aircraft complete discretion to remove a passenger (or crew member for that matter) as he or she sees fit

I'll concede that. But thats not the law being referred to in previous postings. That was my argument.

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15055 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 13):
Actually you failed to state your reference was to anything other than UK Law

Ok sorry if you didnt think I clarified it enough but in my view there were various issues including common sense as you and I stated.

Quoting OA260 (Reply 8):
I think it all comes down to compromise and common sense on both sides.

I still think he was trying to make a statement.


User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15024 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
I still think he was trying to make a statement.

I agree with you. And given current sensitivities after recent events, anyone displaying such a lack of common sense could lead crew to consider they may be capable of anything.


User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 15000 times:

Quoting OA260 (Reply 16):
I still think he was trying to make a statement.

I may (or may not) agree with you. Big grin . But that opens up a whole new barrel of cack that belongs in Non-Av.



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 43
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14944 times:

This was a completely over the top reaction from the captain. This man didn't just go to the back and pray, no, he did the correct thing and asked permission to pray. As others have said, he could have been an inexperienced flyer, who simply didn't know better. If the crew didn't want him to pray, they could simply have said no. Sending him off the plane, not for praying, but for asking permission to pray, was completely uncalled for.

User currently offlineEDICHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14899 times:

Quoting FlyingAY (Reply 12):
Come on, this guy could have been on his first flight ever - how could we know? And at least he asked before just wandering off to the galley. I would think, that the cabin personnel would have been exactly the right person to contact, and it would have just been polite for the FA to explain that the galley is not for passengers and that unfortunately they couldn't arrange a quiet place for the man.

There was a facility for this man at NCL to pray in private, why he had to make an issue of it on board the aircaft cannot be justified.

Bear in mind the background of some of those involved in the events at GLA. Members of the Medical profession, a highly trusted sector of society who take an oath to ensure the well-being of others. If you can't trust them who can you trust? If this man wishes to blame anyone for his treatment on this occasion, he should look squarely at the extremeists among his own faith, who have caused everyone in the UK transport industry to be just a little bit jittery.

Perhaps what you fail to appreciate is that UK aviation is currently facing it's longest and most serious security issues ever. As someone who worked for a small UK carrier who operated services to BFS at the height of 'The Troubles' in Northern Ireland, I don't make that statement lightly. In my opinion this man was intent on making some kind of militant statement about his faith that was insensitive and inappropriate.


User currently offlineFly2CHC From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14889 times:

Quoting QatarA340 (Reply 7):
If I want to pray on planes, I usually pray while seated down

What happens about Qiblat though? Say you are on a flight from DOH to PVG, your seat will almost certainly be facing the complete opposite direction.

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 14):
avaition law affords the Captain of an aircraft complete discretion to remove a passenger (or crew member for that matter) as he or she sees fit.

If this is the case, then the Captain and the airline should be willing and prepared to suffer the legal consequences for negligence, racism, and victimisation. If I was the passenger, I would be pursuing this to the fullest extent permissable by existing legislation. Would the same thing happen if you a crew member saw a Catholic signalling a cross, or a Jew reading the Torat?


User currently offlineOA260 From Ireland, joined Nov 2006, 26999 posts, RR: 57
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14859 times:

Quoting 7LBAC111 (Reply 18):
I may (or may not) agree with you. . But that opens up a whole new barrel of cack that belongs in Non-Av.

LOL..... Big grin


User currently offlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5032 posts, RR: 43
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14829 times:

Quoting EDICHC (Reply 20):
why he had to make an issue of it on board the aircaft cannot be justified.

How do you know he 'made an issue' about it? He simply asked for permission! If the crew had simply refused permission, that would have been the end of it! And yes, there was a facility at the airport. But he know that? Kicking him off the flight was unjustified. If they had refused permission, and he would then have made a fuss about it, that would have been a different situation. But that is not what happened: they kicked him off immediately, simply for asking permission to pray.

[Edited 2007-07-09 13:57:51]

User currently offline7LBAC111 From United Kingdom, joined Jul 2004, 2566 posts, RR: 35
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 14787 times:

Quoting Scorpio (Reply 23):
How do you know he 'made an issue' about it? He simply asked for permission

Actually, if we are all going by the Sunday Star, nobody really knows the truth....

It is more likely (in my opinion) a mix between exploitive journalism, crew over reaction, and insensitivity/foolishness by the passenger. We could sit here all day and make arguments for each case, but what'd be the point....?

7L



Debate is what you put on de hook when you want to catch de fish.
25 Post contains images OHLHD : My last time I travelled to Doha on QR I saw a man praying and it was a curiosity for the other passengers. Nobody made a fuss out of it. Sure he coul
26 EDICHC : Quite simply there would be no legal consequences. The captain of a commercial aircraft has absolute LEGAL authority to have removed from the aircraf
27 LTBEWR : With so many faiths with even more variances of customs, it can be difficult to accommodate everyone at all times under all circumstances especially o
28 EDICHC : That was on a carrier based in an Islamic state, travelling to it's base. Hardly a suitable comparison to a departure on a UK aircraft, in the UK, ju
29 Haddock0815 : Maybe the airlines should train their personnels with such informations so they could tell him? Then he knows that they are well informed. If he then
30 OA260 : On my flight with IR to THR they had a prayer room onboard. But then again it is an Islamic airline so they cater for the majority. Do QR not have th
31 StarGuy : I think that if the story is as simple as the news story suggests, and the man was booted off and searched for simply asking to pray in the galley, th
32 OA260 : Sign of the times unfortunately. It is of course wrong that people look at someone and think ''terrorist''. My Dad's side of the family are East Indi
33 Travellin'man : Assuming that the story is essentially what was reported, I agree with all those who say that the crew over-reacted. I am not sure I grasp what some p
34 EDICHC : I think there is far more to this story that the simplified case stated in the newspaper report, the passenger concerned may well have caused some fo
35 FlyingAY : How long will it take until praying on your seat is considered as "some kind of militant statement"? Or would you consider it as a "militant statemen
36 Kanebear : My attempting to board an SV flight with my wife wearing a miniskirt and bustier wouldn't be much different than this. She's only dressing as she's co
37 Post contains images EDICHC : Most sensible remark I have seen on this thread! Including my own! See my PM to you
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : .at least you didn't just straight out inform the captain.... ...a simple explanation would have been satisfactory.....if he caused trouble after tha
39 StarGuy : But neither of you would get thrown off the aircraft and security searched because of it. I don't even understand why the crew member sought the the
40 OA260 : Jacobin777 , you obviously can give a personal insight into this being Pakistani but I think it is an issue that divides even people in the Muslim co
41 EDICHC : Quite! It is what has not been reported that I suspect may have led to this person being off-loaded. What exactly is the source of this report? An un
42 Sevenair : Great, I wonder how many hundreds of thousands of Pounds he will get in compensation.
43 Kanebear : Which, if we were boarding, we wouldn't have access to as the bags would ostensibly be in the hold. Different circumstances, same end result. We'd be
44 EDICHC : I have a very good friend back in the UK who is both Pakistani and follows Islam. He has lived in the UK for nearly 30 years. He also holds an ATPL,
45 7LBAC111 : Persecution is a strong term, but I get your reasoning. I don't want to come across offensive, but why do you find being security searched humiliatin
46 BOACVC10 : Generally speaking, for those that feel they need to pray, if you are "travelling", you can pray in any direction you like. BOACVC10
47 EDICHC : Who is making that claim? The unamed source? Not all the facts have been represented in this tabloid newspaper story. Given the patchy report I am fa
48 Travellin'man : Almost every time that such an issue has come up on this forum, people have jumped to say that we don't have all the facts, maybe he did something to
49 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...you are correct OA260....your mate's decision and approach is different than mine and I certainly can respect that..I'm not saying that I would be
50 EDICHC : Hysteria...vaguely possible, given recent events but still unlikely, racism definitely not. Being a follower of the Islamic faith does not constitute
51 StarGuy : Well until more of the story comes to light, this is all we have to go on.
52 EDICHC : But you don't know that! All you have is a newspaper report quoting an unidentified and unreliable source.
53 Jacobin777 : ..and that's the only source....
54 EDICHC : Incorrect..again see how facts can appear to be altered by omission. It is the only source available AT THIS TIME. And again I stress an unreliable s
55 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....isn't that what I said? ... ....we can change "facts" with "what is being reported"..but the story/situation hasn't changed one bit...
56 Scorpio : And yet, here you are immediately dismissing it out of hand, and replacing it with your own story of what reallyhappened, a story backed up by absolu
57 EDICHC : But the limited 'facts' you keep referring to are nothing of the sort. They are unsubstantiated rumour and will remain so until this source is identif
58 Iwok : Well said my friend. I don't know why people need to go for most outwardly display; and this applied to people of all religious backgrounds. What is
59 Elite : I agree that kicking him off the flight was slightly overreacting, but people need to realize that your religious belief can't be above the normal rul
60 Boeingluvr : Another thing to consider as well. He could have been making some kind of statement that due to freedom or religion he should be allowed to pray anywh
61 Ncelhr : This is the only *confirmed* fact I have seen in this discussion. Confirmed because muslim friends have told me exactly the same thing in the past. I
62 Post contains images TuRbUleNc3 : Yeah thats probably what will happen next
63 6YJJK : The man in question would have been well advised to take this option, it's true. But, given that he didn't, maybe he simply thought it best to pray i
64 Rivet42 : Interesting - this 'story' hasn't been reported anywhere else, so the fact that it is only in this particular paper, not exactly a reputable news sour
65 Kanebear : ...and you still know nothing more about it than anyone else does. As reported does not mean complete and truthful. You stated earlier that I was goi
66 Jacobin777 : ..thus I made no assumptions because of that.....I've taken the article a prima facie.... ...now if the "source" is wrong, questionable, not of worth
67 KhelmDTW : I'm sorry, but I thought you also had to align yourselves with Mecca. (I've heard its called a Qibla, (very sorry if I spelled that wrong)) How would
68 Zvezda : People have a right to pray. People also have a right to masturbate. Neither right applies in the public areas of an airliner -- particularly not the
69 Jacobin777 : .....masturbating usually involves bodily fluids which isn't hygienic so its not really an "apples-to-apples" comparison..if the F/A's didn't want th
70 Tockeyhockey : religious insanity is the number one problem facing the world. i applaud the workers who decided to call this guy out and kick him out. to think that
71 WesternA318 : Unfortunately, I'm forced to agree with both these statements, as the feelings such as these are over on this side of the pond as well. It happened o
72 Airplanenut : I wouldn't call praying religious insanity. Was it the best time to ask, probably not, but then again, it seems that all he did was ask. From what ha
73 LAXdude1023 : Agreed. Based on what has been reported, it might have been extreme to boot the man from the flight. There is a lot of fear in the aviation world of
74 CupraIbiza : Ridiculous. Why didnt the cabin crew just say "no you can't". What an over reaction to boot him off the plane. This news story is a victory for the ex
75 F9Animal : I agree, the cabin crew could have refused the request. But at the same time, we are only getting tidbits of information about this incident. The med
76 Abrelosojos : I love the reaction that this is getting from the usual suspects on A-Net. Complete overreaction. The man was polite enough to ask - a polite refusal
77 Ual757 : Muslims don't have to pray when they travel...
78 LAXdude1023 : Nobody has to, but lots of people do. Some people are nervous flyers and praying (to whatever God) can ease that for some people. A muslim praying on
79 Dallasnewark : Gee, I wonder why is this the case. You don't see anyone else blowing themselves into pieces but the residents of the Middle East. Let me ask you thi
80 Post contains images Dallasnewark : Come Zvezda, what are you suggesting, some dude asking if he can whack of in the galley ? I'm sure the reaction of the crew would be interesting
81 Emrecan : Both sides are wrong. First of all it is very stupid for that muslim to ask permission to pray. Because in the airplane you can pray while you are sit
82 N1120A : It looks to me like you didn't really read the article. It said that he merely asked if he could go and pray, not that he insisted upon it. Two entir
83 AutoThrust : Well i think the acted correct. I have nothing against Muslims, but i often saw they just stop everything when they want to pray. For example we had a
84 Baroque : All true, but I get the feeling that he wanted a special prayer because he was worried about take-off. I have met this in Indonesia where my neighbou
85 Fly2CHC : It's sad that most of the comments made in this post are by people who don't seem to know anything about Islam. Yes...Muslims do need to pray when tra
86 OHLHD : Maybe all passengers were seated and the plane was ready to go. Why should they wait until this guy has finished praying. As I said before a bit over
87 ManuCH : Probably not everyone is as polite as you are. On my last AA JFK-ZRH flight there were about 15 people doing the thing with the leather boxes, strapp
88 Zvezda : Many people derive an intense benefit from belief in a tooth fairy. Fortunately, most outgrow that particular silly belief. No atheist would ever hav
89 Fly2CHC : Yes, but this poor guy merely asked if he could perform his prayers - he didn't get up and arbitrairly start them.
90 Zvezda : We have very limited availability of information here. Let's not make presumptions. The article is not an example of responsible journalism -- it is
91 Ravel : I think Quran says that because it is always possible to pray at the correct times, one can compensate by praying more often later. Or maybe that only
92 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = I think your answer was one of the few balanced posts here. = The above disclaimer was very convincing . -A.
93 Scorpio : You applaud the crew who kicked him off because he asked permission to pray??????????? Well, it does. Who are you to judge?
94 LAXdude1023 : Extremism in any religion sucks, but they dont represent the entire relgion by any means (or the majority). I dont think most Muslims enjoy being lab
95 Biman : Which British law says that one cannot practise their religion? This has NOTHING to do with Britain or law ... this is between finding a workable com
96 DZ09 : I am surprised at how stupid some of these muslims can be. It is open season on muslims and these people keep attracting more attentions to themselves
97 Post contains images Jacobin777 : none the past number of years.... ..gee....since >80% of child molesters are white males between the ages of 18-65 maybe we need to DNA-screen every
98 Post contains images Zvezda : You've written that terrorism is no worse than confusion.
99 Scorpio : How is this 'stupid'? All he did was ask permission. He didn't just go there and kneel down, no, he did the correct and polite thing and asked permis
100 Poitin : Most Moslems I know who are religious believe they have to prostrate themselves before Allah (or God in English) while facing Mecca. A little hard to
101 OA260 : Does British law state that you can pray in an aircraft galley which is for the crew to work in ??? Should the crew stop their duties just for this??
102 Scorpio : Does British law state that you can you can sing songs while on the toilet of an airplane? No? Well then, does that mean you CAN'T? Once again: the i
103 N1120A : As opposed to those Irishmen setting off bombs? Or perhaps that redneck who blew up a federal building with cow sh!t? BTW, this dude was a British re
104 OA260 : That has not been proved yet . It has been reported as such in a very dodgy newspaper. I would like to see a ''official'' response on this. Maybe he
105 Post contains images Emirates773ER : Your comment is reeking of ignorance. Does british law state that people can be kicked out of planes just because they asked for PERMISSION to pray?
106 Scorpio : It's the only thing reported thus far. Nothing to the contrary has been reported, and yet you are completely dismissing it out of hand.
107 OA260 : Like I said , id like to hear what 100% happened from a reliable source. We do not know what was said between the guy in question and the crew. Did h
108 Scorpio : From what we know from the article, they never said 'No sorry we don't allow it'. They immediately kicked him off.
109 Abrelosojos : = I really would like to understand your line of thinking. If you admit its been reported in a dodgy newspaper, and now have all the "maybes", how ca
110 Zvezda : We know next to nothing from the article. You're jumping to conclusions based on rumors.
111 Kiramakora : I guess the terrorists have won. Irrespective of who is right/wrong/fault/over-reaction/etc., they have ensured that society has changed their behavio
112 OA260 : Firstly I do think he was trying to make a statement. A UK to AGP flight is a few hours. There is a prayer room at NCL . Those are facts !!! Why did
113 Kiramakora : Given current paranoia, perhaps he was worried that surrounding passengers would be alarmed if a YOUNG MUSLIM man started praying in flight ...
114 Post contains images Abrelosojos : = I am not questioning the "two-sides-of-the-story" bit. I am just pointing out that you are drawing such strong judgements on someone when have admi
115 Jacobin777 : .....as I've mentioned above, that is incorrect (regarding the whole prostrate concept while at FL350).... Muslims make the best intention and go wit
116 Scorpio : Nope, I'm basing what I write on what is reported. The ones, and there are many here, who are dismissing the article out of hand, are the ones 'jumpi
117 OA260 : I would like to hear what the crew's version was but im sure they will be silenced for legal reasons and if this goes to court etc... Still doesnt ch
118 Abrelosojos : = Please re-read what I wrote above. I am not commenting on your opinions on what he should or should not have done. They are your opinions. I am com
119 Post contains images Ayubogg : There are too many posts to read them all and see if this has been mentioned already but here goes it: I recentley flew EWR-LHR with VS and in their i
120 OA260 : If he wasn't making a statement then he was very naive!!! This issue is being discussed on other forums in the UK incl. Muslim community forums as my
121 Poitin : Perhaps for you, but I know several who say that they they must prostrate themselves and face Mecca. There are Christians, and then there are Christi
122 Jacobin777 : ..I'm not saying that one isn't supposed to (I guess I'm not being clear)....because one must face towards Mecca, however..if the choice has to be ma
123 Poitin : I suppose if I were to chain you to a wall so that you could not move your head, you could end up with no choice, but that is rarely the case for the
124 CJAContinental : Passenger should have known better given circumstances, and the captain over-reacted.
125 Zvezda : There are five possibilities: a) the passenger was stupid, b) the passenger was aggressively ignorant, c) the passenger was trying to provoke an incid
126 OA260 : I think (D) can be ruled out as it was found that he didnt have anything other than a compass and bottle of water which I presume was bought after se
127 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : That sounds narrow minded. It doesnt seem like a black and white situation. I think this sounds like a more accurate synopsis:
128 Biman : Law is only required when common sense fails. May be they should make a law that says customers can't talk to the crew if they are in the galley or s
129 Biman : How did you come to that conclusion? Using the excuse of potential terrorism threat to provide a lousy service and mis-behave with fare paying custom
130 EDICHC : Thomsonfly will not have to pay out a single penny. I doubt this will ever reach court. BUT the point I have been making is.....why are most of you o
131 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..c'mon mate, you need not be that harsh.. ...certainly there is some latitude...if it was a short flight it probably wouldn't have been a problem an
132 Biman : The fare paying customer was VICTIMIZED by the demonic top-to-bottom personnel of this airline. The captain had the responsibility to make a proporti
133 EDICHC : I do not have to prove anything. The posters who have branded this Captain hysterical, racist and negligent have to, prove the incident happened and
134 Post contains images Poitin : Okay, I give up -- just what is "aggressively ignorant"? Did he have to go to school for it, or was he just born that way Let's see --- a several day
135 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...actually I didn't miss that point..had you stated the comment about flying on "Muslim-friendly airline" for long haul on your other post it would
136 BCAL : Precisely. How do we know if the passenger was a nervous first-time flyer, in which case surely the crew would have made some allowances, or some hig
137 N1120A : So what. Discrimination is discrimination. All they had to say is "no, sorry, we can't allow that" and they would have been fine. If, as it seems by
138 Post contains images OA260 : Common sense didnt seem to prevail on this occassion otherwise he would have prayed in NCL prayer room Within reason !!!! Without the crews side of t
139 Zvezda : It follows directly and immediately from your statement without any intermediate steps. Yes, I agree, but you wrote that is no better than those (ter
140 Post contains images 7LBAC111 : Oh dear..... Right you are completely wide of the mark in this comparison. Firstly, I have no afilliation one way or the other to any 'side' in North
141 Post contains images Analog : Why are so many giving the passenger such flack on the basis of an unsubstantiated report in a questionable newspaper? He was quite the stud... Peopl
142 Zvezda : False. Louis Mountbatten and his 15 year-old grandson were civilian IRA targets.
143 OA260 : Are you for real !!!! Cant believe I just read that from someone who is from Ulster!!!!! Terminal 2 LHR / Victoria rail station. / Harrods!!! I lived
144 7LBAC111 : You are incorrect. Actually Lord Mountbatten was a Military Commander IIRC. And his grandson and boat boy (who also dies) where not expected to be on
145 7LBAC111 : You are completely wrong. They targeted military and infrastructure. Not civilians directly. Yes there were casualties in those instances and shamefu
146 Scorpio : Why are you, and many others, giving the passenger such flak on the basis of that same report, despite there being nothing in there that shows he did
147 Post contains links OA260 : http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qn4158/is_20020717/ai_n12642412 IRA admitted that years of carnage among civilians damaged its cause David McKit
148 7LBAC111 : So you find an article? I can find as many that will counter that. And I have conceded that there were of course civilian casualties, but the 'war' w
149 OA260 : No im not . One could say the same for you . So was it ''directly'' ''not totally'' or not directed at all??? Anyway back on topic . Until I hear the
150 7LBAC111 : Suggest you study both again. I say in both posts NOT DIRECTED and NOT DIRECTLY. The word 'totally' is irrelevant here. The point is that the sole ai
151 Post contains links OA260 : Tell that to the family of Jean McConville!!! http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/...2/1067708065027.html?from=storyrhs When the s@@t hit the fan the
152 7LBAC111 : Once again, oh dear. .. Another article which can be countered but is taking this thread waaaaay of topic. Another example of your hypocrisy, and lac
153 EDICHC : Yes he was stupid, given that BRITISH moslems were responsible a week previously for an attemped terrorist atrocity at an airport, and then he wants
154 Scorpio : Has it ever occurred to you that that was precisely his plan? Why else ask for permission to pray in the galley, out of sight for other passengers. Y
155 Post contains images OA260 : You were that one that mentioned the IRA and brought it off topic!!!
156 EDICHC : Hypocrisy...no sensitivity yes. I had two friends injured in the July 7 attacks in London, one seriously and left with a permanent disability. So if I
157 7LBAC111 : Actually, although not by name, it was N1120A in reply 103. 7L
158 OA260 : Yes too true the final say lays with the captain. He is in charge of everyones safety and if there is any doubt he has to act on it. If you do happen
159 Scorpio : Nope, hypocrisy, pure and simple. You blame people for judging the captain based on what you see as a poorly written article, yet you do the EXACT sa
160 Post contains images EDICHC : Couldn't agree more! You have just found your way on to my respect list!
161 Post contains images OA260 : And you mine
162 EDICHC : No so I was critical because the source was unidentified and the crew, for legal reasons were unable to reply or defend themselves through the same m
163 Scorpio : Stop trying to wiggle your ass out of it, you did the exact same thing you accused others of doing. The EXACT same thing. OR potentially leaving out a
164 Abrelosojos : = Ya. Lets be frank. What about the rights of the 99% other passengers on the aircraft? Were you there to ask? Did the crew do a survey? How can you
165 Post contains images Poitin : I believe you are reading less into my statement than I wrote. I said: " but that is rarely the case for the Moslems I know -- they plan ahead." That
166 Post contains images Zvezda : You do not recall correctly. Louis Mountbatten was 79 years-old at the time of his murder. He was a retired military officer, having served in World
167 OA260 : Im glad your fascinated !! Also you have jumped to conclusions by stating ''poor chap'' . How do you know he was totally innocent?? You seem to be ar
168 TeamAmerica : Your memory is faulty, and your morals are questionable. You excuse the murder of innocents because the killers didn't expect them to be there? Repre
169 Post contains images 7LBAC111 : He doesn't - in the same way that you do not know that he was not completely guilty. I have a response for your post, but am concerned it's going off
170 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...again, as I've stated...I wasn't sure what your point was.....the problem on A.net is too many people make too many assumptions and I didn't want
171 Post contains images 7LBAC111 : I lost a relative (a policeman) to the IRA. I do not justify it in any sense of the word. I find your suggestion both offensive and upsetting to be h
172 Abrelosojos : = He is a "poor chap" because he is being hanged by subjective jurors on A.Net. Therein lies the root of my sympathies. = I am not arguing to the con
173 Post contains images OA260 : Haha I thought so !! But to show theres no hard feelings 7L
174 TeamAmerica : It was you who suggested that Lord Mountbatten was a "military" target, and further that such status might somehow legitimize his murder and that of
175 7LBAC111 : No what I said was that he was 'considered a target' in the eyes of those who make such decisions. Because of his Military background, because of his
176 TeamAmerica : I appreciate your effort to more fully explain your position, and you stated it quite well. That said, I remain in complete disagreement. You suggest
177 N1120A : So the pub in Guildford was a "military target?" Victoria Station is a military target? King's Cross and Euston are military targets? London Bridge S
178 7LBAC111 : Instead of being selective with the response you choose to quote to in the 30 or so since you first interjected, read my other replies which expanded
179 Poitin : I am surprised nobody remembered the bloodiest, and most stupid IRA related bombing which killed about the same number of Protestants and Catholics,
180 Post contains images Gr8Circle : How come this thread hasn't yet been deleted? It's gone way off-topic and become meaningless!!! I've seen threads deleted and members suspended for mu
181 Bramble : Strangely enough I, as purser have allowed a Jewish gentleman to stand to pray. However before he began I made it clear that he must sit down as soon
182 Post contains images OA260 : Because everyone on here has not said anything that should be deleted as this is a heated debate but everyone has given their personal views and are
183 Abrelosojos : I think its time to move on ... perhaps revisit as more facts are made public? Cheers, A.
184 EDICHC : Caught out from what exactly? The unnamed source relayed one version of events on thatr aircraft, I'm quite sure that given the chance the crew would
185 WesternA318 : I agree...and just like some Muslims do indeed cause a scene just forthe attention, as I am looslely believing this eventto be, this thread should be
186 EDICHC : I would tend to agree.....
187 PanAm_DC10 : That sir, is a good idea, this thread has run it's course, any responses after this will be deleted, Thank you.
Top Of Page
Forum Index

This topic is archived and can not be replied to any more.

Printer friendly format

Similar topics:More similar topics...
Pax Booted Off WN Flight-obscene Word On T-shirt posted Thu Oct 6 2005 04:53:09 by LTBEWR
China Southern Asking For Routes To Argentina posted Sun Mar 20 2005 07:59:52 by Argentina
JFK ATC Approach Asking To Look For A Sinking Ship posted Mon May 10 2004 07:03:32 by EMBTucano
QF Offer 45% Off For Americans To Australia & NZ posted Wed Mar 24 2004 07:28:22 by Wirraway
CO Flight #9971 Today, To MHV For Storage? posted Sat Sep 29 2001 19:36:00 by N737MC
What Airline For A Flight From JFK To Mia? posted Mon Dec 18 2000 01:02:09 by SXM727
Best Airline For A Flight From Vancouver To Tokyo? posted Thu Dec 2 1999 17:11:40 by Naimas
Will 787 Wings Bend Enough For Wingtips To Touch? posted Wed Jun 27 2007 02:20:14 by Atmx2000
RSW Looks For Service To Latin America posted Tue Jun 26 2007 20:13:20 by RSWA330
AA Flight 1082 Diverted To MKE posted Tue Jun 26 2007 03:46:20 by CO777-200ER