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China Southern MD-90s For Delta - Updates?  
User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 8571 times:

It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s for domestic expansion from SLC. In particular, it has been stated that Delta is interested in buying China Southern's MD-90 fleet. This would almost double the size of Delta's MD-90 fleet, and could free some 737-800s on longer routes to/from hubs other than SLC. Those rumors have seemed to die down, but I would like to know whether Delta is still interested in second-hand MD-90s. Does anyone have any info?


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineOkie73 From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 446 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8339 times:

heard Delta is still looking to get some MD-90s from China. 22 total, from China Southern and China Eastern.

User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8307 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s for domestic expansion from SLC. In particular, it has been stated that Delta is interested in buying China Southern's MD-90 fleet. This would almost double the size of Delta's MD-90 fleet, and could free some 737-800s on longer routes to/from hubs other than SLC.

The MD-90's were/are to be used for West Coast flying. This would come into play to take the 737-800 and 757-200 off of the SLC-West Coast flights. It was also talked about that the MD-90 would play a large role at LAX with the addition of 10 frames solely based at LAX. These frames would be used for service to the Mid-West(MCI/STL/IND/OKC), and Texas markets(DFW/SAT/AUS/ELP), as well as flying within the West Coast(SMF/SFO/LAS/PHX/PDX/SEA/YVR).

If the rumor is still true or not, I am not aware of.

-JD


User currently offlineJohn From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 1374 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 8196 times:

Aren't JAL and SAS looking to dump their MD-90s? Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a couple of MD-90s sitting in the desert for a few years that were intended for the defunct Pro-Air and are now being scrapped? Why didn't Delta snatch those up?

User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8156 times:

I know I have asked this before, but I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s. I believe that out of all the MD-90s in service, only Delta, JAL, and Saudia have installed IFE on them. Most of the routes will probably be too short to warrant the Transcon product with live TV and AVOD. However, basic IFE with drop-down LCDs similar to what Delta's current MD-90s and 737-800s feature would probably be a good idea for any used MD-90s.


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User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8156 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I know I have asked this before, but I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s.

The IFE mods on the MD-90 are not a problem to install, they will if Delta Air Lines takes them on be installed..

-JD


User currently offlineMandala499 From Indonesia, joined Aug 2001, 6957 posts, RR: 76
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 8060 times:

I think DL can start grabbing JT's MD90s from next year onwards... though they'd require a lot of work to be done on them before entering DL's fleet... *grin*


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User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8036 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I wonder if Delta will install any form of IFE on used MD-90s



Quoting 1337Delta764 (Reply 4):
I believe that out of all the MD-90s in service, only Delta, JAL, and Saudia have installed IFE on them.

Seems that you've answered your own question.


User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 8006 times:

It's not likely that they would be completely segregated just to the western part of the US if DL were to obtain them. First, DL has segregated about as many MD90s to the SLC hub as it can due to the rotation of aircraft to/from the east. It is not going to be possible to continue to use them for flights just to/from SLC and LAX because the remaining 738s and 757s that fly to/from those western hubs rotate to/from flights from the east coast that are longer than what the MD90 is capable of doing.

The MD90 is quite fuel efficient (it has the same engine as on the A320) but it is not a strong performer. As other airlines get rid of the MD90, DL will be wise to pick them up.

The other part of the rumor is that DL will be swapping CRJs at a rate of 3 for every 1 MD90. If it happens, DL will very quickly reduce its CRJ fleet which will allow for replacement by CR7s and 9s.


User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7959 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
It is not going to be possible to continue to use them for flights just to/from SLC and LAX because the remaining 738s and 757s that fly to/from those western hubs rotate to/from flights from the east coast that are longer than what the MD90 is capable of doing.

It could do most of the SLC routes except for the Hawaii routes. BOS, one of the longest routes, is 1829NM according to Great Circle Mapper, the range of the MD-90 is 2085nm for the -30 or 2700mi for the -30ER.

[Edited 2007-07-10 04:32:00]

User currently offlineJbmitt From United States of America, joined Jan 2002, 549 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 7888 times:

The MD-90s really stretch their legs going to CMH, CLE, & PIT from SLC, remember the MD88s (range of 2620nm ex. DL 1428 SLC-CVG stopping for fuel in DEN) would have to make fuel stops. I think that the hot/high conditions in SLC would be difficult to push it to BOS. If you watch the schedules, the MD-90s can rotate to ATL on Sundays through CMH. There would still be 757/737s in SLC and LAX but short hops ie) LAX-LAS could be eliminated on the 738s.

[Edited 2007-07-10 05:02:42]

User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7831 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 9):
It could do most of the SLC routes except for the Hawaii routes. BOS, one of the longest routes, is 1829NM according to Great Circle Mapper, the range of the MD-90 is 2085nm for the -30 or 2700mi for the -30ER

Indeed the following routes could easily be flown with the MD-90:

SLC-PIT
SLC-BUF
SLC-BHM
SLC-YYZ

LAX-STL
LAX-ORD
LAX-IAH
LAX-VER

JFK-COS
JFK-LRM
JFK-OKC
JFK-SAT

CVG-BDA
CVG-YHZ
CVG-MEX
CVG-GEG

-JD


User currently offlineBongo From Colombia, joined Oct 2003, 1863 posts, RR: 5
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7769 times:

Quoting Okie73 (Reply 1):
heard Delta is still looking to get some MD-90s from China. 22 total, from China Southern and China Eastern.

How old are this planes?



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User currently offlineWedgetail737 From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 5948 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 7689 times:
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Quoting John (Reply 3):
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but weren't there a couple of MD-90s sitting in the desert for a few years that were intended for the defunct Pro-Air and are now being scrapped?

I believe those MD-90's became available during the period that DAL was basically suffocating in their own blood and couldn't afford new aircraft.

Those MD-90's were pretty new. It was a shame to see them parted out.


User currently offlineBluewave 707 From United States of America, joined Jun 2001, 3152 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7511 times:

EVA Air has few as well, seen a couple pass through HNL on its way to the US mainland.

Looks like DL would take as many as available.



"The best use of your life will be to so live your life, that the use of your life will outlive your life" -- D Severn
User currently offlineA300 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 7494 times:
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The Chinese planes were destined for Iran Air Tours. Is that transaction is cancelled?


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User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2975 posts, RR: 3
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7437 times:

Quoting John (Reply 3):
Aren't JAL and SAS looking to dump their MD-90s?

Eventually, JL will unload the MD-90s as the 738s are delivered but the first priority is retiring the older M81/M87s.

SAS no longer operates MD-90s. On paper, they may still belong to SAS but they are leased out.


User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 7388 times:

Both the 88's and the 90's are aweful planes, IMHO. They are more trouble than they are worth.

When I was at CLE, we had (have) a once-daily MD-90 from SLC and it was always, always, always, weight restricted making it almost impossible to get all the bags and even all the people on board. $5000 in DBC's were not unheard of for many days in a row.

I follow the MD90's pretty closely on a daily basis and they are always hindered by performance issues.

And, beyond that, they are a maintenance nightmare. Everyday the Mad Dog would roll in, and the pilot would come off and say, "well, we had to call Maintenance in ATL..." and there starts a 5 hour delay, or a cancellation, etc.

I'm sick of the Mad Dogs and so are a lot of people in DL.

We are all hoping that DL will soon get rid of them and transfer over wholly to B737-800's or pick up some more 757's.

Sorry to rant, but this is coming from someone who has to deal with them operationally, and I am not impressed nor every happy when the Mad Dog rolls into the gatehouse.



What you believe is what you see.
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 7270 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 8):
The other part of the rumor is that DL will be swapping CRJs at a rate of 3 for every 1 MD90.

One can only hope that happens. Though for now, at least some of the CRJs are already being replaced by CR9s, which isn't too bad either.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
We are all hoping that DL will soon get rid of them and transfer over wholly to B737-800's or pick up some more 757's.

Because 136 738s and/or 757s are just soo easy to come by these days...


User currently offline1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6633 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7112 times:

Quoting Positiverate (Reply 7):
Seems that you've answered your own question.

No, I did not. Just because Delta's current MD-90 fleet has IFE doesn't mean that any used MD-90s will have it added. For example, Continental operates a small subfleet of 737-300s with IFE, while the rest of them don't have it. The IFE on Delta's MD-90s was factory installed, and it would cost Delta additional money to install it on any used MD-90 from China Southern or China Eastern, whose MD-90s do not feature IFE. This is why Delta is not investing in any form of IFE for the MD-88s. Either way, IFE would be a nice addition, even if it is not the Transcon product.



The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
User currently offlinePC12Fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 2457 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 16 hours ago) and read 7010 times:

Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?  Wink

At any rate, glad to see the MD-90 is getting a boost in the US. I always did like this aircraft.



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User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6403 times:

"I follow the MD90's pretty closely on a daily basis and they are always hindered by performance issues."

I don't doubt a word you're saying, afterall you work around these jets daily, but I always thought that the MD90's were fairly good performers i.e. high thrust to weight, modern feul efficient engines. Especially when compared to the MD81-88 series, the MD90's were practically overpowered. Wasn't there a model of the MD90, the MD90-50 if I recall, that had the option of two 28,000lb thrust engines?? That thing would have been a beast.



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User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6254 times:

I remember reading Alaska is getting rid of some of these birds, IIRC.

Quoting DLOnur (Reply 17):
and I am not impressed nor every happy when the Mad Dog rolls into the gatehouse.

....or the mad dog house, so to speak.....

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Hmmm, demand for the MD-90 is picking up. Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

If any assembly line was closed pre-maturely, it was the 757, not the MD-90 line.



One Nation Under God
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7554 posts, RR: 23
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6189 times:

Quoting 1337Delta764 (Thread starter):
It has been stated in the past that Delta is looking into acquring second-hand MD-90s

So how does the analogy go, 2nd-hand 717s are to FL what 2nd-hand MD-90s are to DLBig grin

Quoting PC12Fan (Reply 20):
Anyone think that Boeing closed the line prematurely?

That's the first time I've read anyone asking that question with regards to the MD-90... even in jest. Big grin

While some could argue (which has been done on these boards) the premature closing case for the 717 (MD-95) and/or the 757; the MD-90's (& MD-80's) future(s) were clearly sealed after MDD's merger w/Boeing. Both of those models were direct competitors to the 737NG.



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User currently offlineFlagshipAZ From United States of America, joined Jan 2001, 3419 posts, RR: 14
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 6133 times:

DAYflyer, AS never had any MD-90s. Only the MD-82/83s. When the -90 was first offered for sale to the airlines, AS did ordered 10 of them, but they were cancelled not too long afterwards, electing to standardize the fleet around the 737NG.
Regards.



"Beer is living proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy." --Ben Franklin
25 Zone1 : It would be interesting to see if they put 10 frames solely on LAX routes. The more they build up LAX the more they will push into WN's territory.
26 Flighty : It is interesting that most airlines are dumping the MD-90 but, that Delta seems to have the perfect set-up and missions for them. Since DL already ha
27 Dutchjet : The financial implications of picking up MD90s are really interesting: on one hand the MD90 is a rather effecient and capable airplane and well suite
28 D950 : The original AS order was for 25 frames, and cancelled for the 73NG (with some strong arming from Boeing)
29 1337Delta764 : I don't think the MD-90 line was closed prematurely. It was internal competition with Boeing's 737-800, and since the 737-800 had far more orders than
30 United_Fan : I saw that MD90 parted out in IGM for years now... I wonder what it would take DL to convert these Chinese 90's to US standards.
31 PC12Fan : By advised sir, that my post was a bit of a joke. I'm sure you are aware of the infamous "when will NWA retire their DC-9?" threads. There are many o
32 737-990 : Actually the original order was for 20, later reduced to 10. Alaska cancelled th MD-90 in 94 or 95 (several years before it had any 73NGs on order) a
33 Post contains links and images QQflyboy : Hmm... the MD-90. As a former Reno Air flight attendant, I can tell you I LOVED THAT PLANE! With emphasis for a reason. It was incredibly quiet, even
34 JetJeanes : Any chance they could pick up those Nw dc-9s to do the job of the Md-90... They would be great with ife.. not
35 Micstatic : Would certainly miss having to be jammed in a 3x3 as opposed to the 2x3. People seam to take that for granted.
36 Post contains images Flighty : Absolutely, you know what's up.
37 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Many hate to see MDD aircraft leave airline fleets as they age, but the MD-90 will probably be the last MDD aircraft DL retires, well after the last
38 EXAAUADL : I thought DL was suppose to retire their M90s?
39 1337Delta764 : The plan was to eliminate the 737 Classics, 767-200s, MD-11s, and MD-90s. Since the resale value of the MD-90 is very low, Delta has backtracked on t
40 Dl757md : Word coming down from management to us is that we will NOT be acquiring any more MD-90s. It had been considered but the poor reliability of the planes
41 TrijetsRMissed : It seems most of us who do not work for DL are hoping that a deal gets done. It does seem like a good business decision in many ways, I think it would
42 MastaHanky : If DL does grab some more MD-90s, will they be equipped with that high-frequency whine you hear when the flight attendants use the PA to make announce
43 SLCUT2777 : This doesn't surprise me at all to say the least. I think DL would be better off taking rolling options of 738s and some 737-700s for some additional
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