ArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1081 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 2529 times:
Doesn't surprise me one bit if you take into account the volume off rain they been having lately.
Wasn't there sufficient reason to divert this flight in the first place?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 2, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 2407 times:
Excerpted from the article:
The incident occurred at 8.47 p.m. The flight had 61 passengers, including one infant, on board. The pilot reported poor visibility due to rains and flight only skidded up to the end of the runway, said A.C.K. Nair, Airport Director. However, Air-India officials said the initial information pointed out that the flight skidded on impact of landing. The nose-wheel was damaged in the incident and the left engine sucked in mud and grass as the flight went off the runway.The flight was declared grounded, the official said.
Gee, with an aircraft 200 metres off the runway with nosegear damage and an engine full of mud and grass, isn't being "grounded" kind of a foregone conclusion?
Anyone know the particulars of the runway at this airport? Length, width, grooved?
OPNLguy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 2279 times:
Quoting VTNYC (Reply 3): Runway is 09/27 with a length of 11,154 ft (3,400 m) and the surface is Asphalt.
I am no expert but I see no reason why a lightly loaded 737-800 should overrun a 2 mile long runway. Correct me but be kind.
Depends on the intensity of the rain that's falling (and has fallen), but I'd think that hydroplaning is a good possibility. Perhaps some tailwind upon landing too?
Concrete runways are usually grooved to allow water to run-off faster, but I don't think an asphalt runway is "hard" enough to groove, and if so, water would be slower to drain and might even pond.
Come on Mel, if that was the case, no landings would be attempted in such conditions. You and I know that thousands of landings take every day under worse conditions. Perhaps a touchdown well past the half way point and as above....
First Flight, PA001 DEL-FRA-LHR-JFK; Dream- JFK-COK on a B6 787
HAWK21M From India, joined Jan 2001, 27845 posts, RR: 61 Reply 7, posted (2 years 5 months 1 week 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 2034 times:
Quoting VTNYC (Reply 6): Come on Mel, if that was the case, no landings would be attempted in such conditions. You and I know that thousands of landings take every day under worse conditions. Perhaps a touchdown well past the half way point and as above....
Depends on the Pilot in question Skill.But We are just speculating.Lets await the official report.
regds
MEL
Zeke From Hong Kong SAR, PRC, joined Dec 2006, 4835 posts, RR: 66 Reply 8, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 1778 times:
Quoting HAWK21M (Reply 7):
Depends on the Pilot in question Skill.But We are just speculating.Lets await the official report.
from pprune
Quote: SECONDS FROM DISASTER!
On the evening of July 11th, approx 1530 GMT, B737-800NG belonging to Air India Express (AIE) Reg. VT-AXC leased to and operated by Air India Express was involved in an accident landing in heavy rain shower in Cochin (VOCI), India. The aircraft (revenue flight) was released under CAT 1 only (Rev. Grn Splrs, Wipers, Auto Brks, Anti Skid - ALL FUNCTIONING), however an AUTOLAND was performed and the Auto Pilot disconnected at 20-30 ft RA. Winds (330/20) created a approx. 10 kts cross wind (excluding the possiblity of a gust at touchdown).
Runway was wet with obvious water patches.
AIE has no CAT2/3 (Autoland) training or syllabus.
VOCI is not CAT 2/3 approved nor has any Low Visability Procedures.
The CP was a Direct Entry (Serbian/Yugoslavian National and retired from JAT) with less than 500 hrs on the NG. The First Officer (Indian National) had less that 100 TT on the NG and was fresh out of Flight School before the type rating on the B738.
Neither crew was CAT 2/3 approved or trained by AIE.
The aircraft at touchdown (approx. 1000 ft from the runway beginning) veered off of RWY 27 (45 m's wide) to the south, into the Monsoon softened shoulder. 1000 ft later after travelling though the grass and mud the aircraft re-entered the runway destroying the runway edge lights on the south side of RWY 27. The aircraft did manage to taxi to the RAMP. Approx. damaged still to be assessed by Boeing Engineers. The engines, nacelles, lower fuselage, trailing edge flaps, etc are damaged and the aircraft is thus AOG. After viewing the aircraft I estimate repairs to run at 10 million USD plus.
How much positive training could have been done with that amount of money?
Was it a classic unstabilzed approach?
First Officer training is usualy 8 sectors on the Jumpseat. Five sectors as acting CM2 and which seems to include being released into the Indian Monsoon without a safety pilot!
All information provided by Cochin airport personnel.
Cathay Pacific wins Airline of the Year 2009 Award. Great service. Great people. Great fares.
Cricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2375 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (2 years 5 months 5 days ago) and read 1707 times:
Quoting Zeke (Reply 8): Quote:
SECONDS FROM DISASTER!
On the evening of July 11th, approx 1530 GMT, B737-800NG belonging to Air India Express (AIE) Reg. VT-AXC leased to and operated by Air India Express was involved in an accident landing in heavy rain shower in Cochin (VOCI), India. The aircraft (revenue flight) was released under CAT 1 only (Rev. Grn Splrs, Wipers, Auto Brks, Anti Skid - ALL FUNCTIONING), however an AUTOLAND was performed and the Auto Pilot disconnected at 20-30 ft RA. Winds (330/20) created a approx. 10 kts cross wind (excluding the possiblity of a gust at touchdown).
Runway was wet with obvious water patches.
AIE has no CAT2/3 (Autoland) training or syllabus.
VOCI is not CAT 2/3 approved nor has any Low Visability Procedures.
The CP was a Direct Entry (Serbian/Yugoslavian National and retired from JAT) with less than 500 hrs on the NG. The First Officer (Indian National) had less that 100 TT on the NG and was fresh out of Flight School before the type rating on the B738.
Neither crew was CAT 2/3 approved or trained by AIE.
The aircraft at touchdown (approx. 1000 ft from the runway beginning) veered off of RWY 27 (45 m's wide) to the south, into the Monsoon softened shoulder. 1000 ft later after travelling though the grass and mud the aircraft re-entered the runway destroying the runway edge lights on the south side of RWY 27. The aircraft did manage to taxi to the RAMP. Approx. damaged still to be assessed by Boeing Engineers. The engines, nacelles, lower fuselage, trailing edge flaps, etc are damaged and the aircraft is thus AOG. After viewing the aircraft I estimate repairs to run at 10 million USD plus.
How much positive training could have been done with that amount of money?
Was it a classic unstabilzed approach?
First Officer training is usualy 8 sectors on the Jumpseat. Five sectors as acting CM2 and which seems to include being released into the Indian Monsoon without a safety pilot!
All information provided by Cochin airport personnel.
Doesn't make for good reading, will pass this onto friends in the daily papers
RoseFlyer From United States, joined Feb 2004, 5645 posts, RR: 27 Reply 12, posted (2 years 5 months 4 days 10 hours ago) and read 1305 times:
Quoting BOACVC10 (Reply 11): hi, repairs to be >>> $10 MM ? <<<< that much
Wow, what are they going to do? Re-engine the plane? Landing gear is one of the most expensive components on a 737, but the nosegear, lower fuselage, slats and nacellese offered aren't anywhere near that much.
[Edited 2007-07-17 04:16:18]
My job is to make it so your flight is not delayed. Come fly the friendly skies!
RFields5421 From United States, joined Jul 2007, 2577 posts, RR: 1 Reply 14, posted (2 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 1054 times:
Quoting OPNLguy (Reply 5): but I don't think an asphalt runway is "hard" enough to groove, and if so, water would be slower to drain and might even pond.
Asphalt runways are also grooved - that's one possible factor in the Brazil crash - the grooving was scheduled to start last week (a week after the crash) to groove the runway after the resurfacing was completed.
Concrete runways can pond just as easily as any other with a heavy enough rainfall. I've seen the grooved concrete runways at Clark in the Philippines with five or six inches of water on the runway.
It drained quickly once the 18-20 inch per hour rains stopped.
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