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ANA Faces 787 Etops Certification Delay  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Quote:
ANA Faces ETOPS Certification Delay When First 787s Arrive

07/10/2007

All Nippon Airways will be forced to restrict flights of the Boeing 787 to regional and domestic routes for 12-18 months after taking delivery in late May 2008 because it is expected to take that long for cautious Japanese bureaucrats to approve extended operations (ETOPS) over the North Pacific.

As it did with the 777, Boeing will certify the 787 with full ETOPs authority, but the Japan Civil Aviation Bureau (JCAB) is expected to take at least a year doing its own certification, as it did with the 777. ANA now uses 777-300ERs as its primary fleet for transpacific operations and wants to phase out its remaining 747-400s from the Pacific routes because their fuel burn is too high.

ANA will take delivery of six 787-8s in 2008 and 2009 out of total order of 30. The first of its 20 787-3s will not arrive until 2010, and Executive VP Osamu Shinobe said it will be flown in a two-class, 300- to 330-seat configuration. Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.

Full story (subscription required)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...ation+Delay+When+First+787s+Arrive


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
10 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offline777236ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5584 times:

Aha! I knew something was up!

787 Etops (by 777236ER Jul 9 2007 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5541 times:

This means nothing to North American operators of the type, who will gladly fill in the void that ANA cannot fill with direct flights to the US. Airlines like CO and AC will gladly fly to Japan until ANA can take advantage of their position in Japan. Thos will only certainly negatively impact ANA.


One Nation Under God
User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5505 times:

My post of 2 hrs ago regarding this article (with nothing but quotes) was deleted because of "double post".

I have not been able to locate that other post yet..

Articles like this are very sensitive to "DOUBLE THREAD" (even "discussed in an other post") , "copyright", "LOW QUALITY" etc. lately.

Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25416 posts, RR: 49
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5394 times:

Quoting DAYflyer (Reply 2):
US. Airlines like CO and AC will gladly fly to Japan until ANA can take advantage of their position in Japan. Thos will only certainly negatively impact ANA.

 checkmark  Agreed.

ANA will be placed in a competitive disadvantage initially while the JCAB works out its certification for the type.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineN328KF From United States of America, joined May 2004, 6485 posts, RR: 3
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5353 times:

Seems to me that the JCAB should join the FAA/EASA certification team and make things easier on everyone.


When they call the roll in the Senate, the Senators do not know whether to answer 'Present' or 'Not guilty.' T.Roosevelt
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5309 times:

NH can fly their first six or so 787s to Europe until they receive ETOPS certification from JCAB. Neither a big deal nor unexpected.

User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 5284 times:

Why is that a surprise when ANA didn't plan to fly the 787 across the Pacific until the end of 2009 or 2010?

User currently offlineDougloid From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 8 hours ago) and read 5217 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 3):
Articles like this are very sensitive to "DOUBLE THREAD" (even "discussed in an other post") , "copyright", "LOW QUALITY" etc. lately.

Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.

I actually agree with Keesje here.

Will wonders never cease?



 Wink  Wink  Wink  Wink


User currently offlineKeesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4828 times:

Quoting Dougloid (Reply 8):
Pls beware to study the rules (http://www.airliners.net/discussions/rules.main?confirm=no). There's always one that can be used to delete a thread.

I actually agree with Keesje here.

Will wonders never cease?

Thnx Dougloid! I know I can always count on you

 Wink

I copied the content from my deleted thread, I notice the article is not accesible anymore.. Some interesting stuff apart from the certification issue.

ANA 787 Introduction, Innovations, Concerns

Posted by Keesje

ANA technical people detailed the 787 's introduction into service, certification, innovations & maintenance concerns.

Introduction & Certification

All Nippon Airways will be forced to restrict flights of the Boeing 787 to domestic and regional routes for 12-18 months after taking delivery in late May 2008 because it is expected to take that long for cautious Japanese bureaucrats to approve extended operations (ETOPS) over the North Pacific.


Configurations

ANA will take delivery of six 787-8s in 2008 and 2009 out of total order of 30. The first of its 20 787-3s will not arrive until 2010, and Executive VP Osamu Shinobe said it will be flown in a two-class, 300- to 330-seat configuration. Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.


Innovations

In its role as launch customer, the carrier brought at least two innovations to the new 250-seat jet. It wanted a washing system for cockpit windows because it takes time to dispatch ground service equipment so a technician can reach the windows. Boeing didn't want to put a washer in, said Hiroyuki Ito, VP-engineering and maintenance, "but we insisted on it."

ANA also is introducing bidets to commercial aviation. It turned to Toto, a Japanese plumbing fixtures manufacturer, to develop the device, which also works as a toilet. Boeing is now including bidets as an option in its 787 catalog.


Maintenance concerns

ANA 's concern is two-fold. Boeing is increasing cabin pressurization in the 787 to make it more comfortable for passengers. The effective altitude in the cabin will be reduced from the industry's norm of 8,000 ft. down to 6,000 ft. "We don 't know how this material will react " to high pressurization, Ito notes.

Foreign object damage is a second concern. Boeing's chief project engineer, Tom Cogan, says if you can't see damage when standing five feet from the structure, then there is none. But Ito says ANA wants to be assured that bumps on the outside do not cause damage on the inside."


Fleet Development

Yamamoto reiterated that ANA has a three-airplane fleet philosophy, using 737s, 787s and 777s. It has not "ruled out" the A380 or 747-8 as large airframes but will wait to judge passenger reaction to them in service, he said.




User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21532 posts, RR: 59
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 2 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 4752 times:

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
Seating for the 787-8 is still being worked out, but ANA expects to operate the airplane in different configurations for international and domestic services.

This confirms what everyone already suspected, since it was logical. The first planes, six in all, will be used domestically and regionally first. They will then be refitted for international travel when the 787-3s come. This will allow NH to learn the jet.

Quoting Keesje (Reply 9):
The effective altitude in the cabin will be reduced from the industry's norm of 8,000 ft. down to 6,000 ft. "We don 't know how this material will react " to high pressurization, Ito notes.

uhh...

They don't "know" how it will react to 8000 ft, either. They don't know how it will react to 10000 ft. They don't know how it will react to 5000 ft, or 7000 ft. They don't know how it will react to loss of pressure.

They do have studies, and they will test it (under pressure, over pressure, no pressure). It's a very silly concern to voice publicly for an airline executive.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
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