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AirTran Starts MKE-LAS Today  
User currently offlineAirTran737 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 3702 posts, RR: 12
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3317 times:
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First flight went out today oversold by one. The flight is consistently booked over 125 for the rest of the month, with fares at $236.00 round trip I can see why. YX is selling a two week advanced roundtrip for $286.00, anyone care to speculate whether YX will drop their fares to match FL?


Nice Trip Report!!! Great Pics, thanks for posting!!!! B747Forever
43 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

With close in booked fares being higher and upgrade fees for business class, sounds like this route will do well. Maybe FL should try MKE-BOS next. According to faremeasure, over 600 passengers fly it daily and FL has a decent sized following in BOS.

User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3274 times:

I just did a quick search two weeks out and the fares were the same for both if staying one week.

7/24 to 7/31 MKE-LAS MKE $218.00 + tax on both.

But returning after only 5 days 7/24 to 7/29: Midwest $283.00 but Airtran was $373.00.

So in that case there is nothing to match. The problem with this type of comparison is it changes with every flight and everyday. Anyway there should be plenty of traffic for both to make some money on this route with Northwest no longer flying it.


User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1430 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3262 times:

Ahh six months from now they will have yx begging to take them over... if you cant buy them, break them, see who has the most money, heck we may even see 29.00 fares out of Mke yet


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2441 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

Interesting, I thought this route had already started, but I guess not. As mentioned, I think that this route will do well for both YX and FL.

Quoting Sideflare75 (Reply 2):
with Northwest no longer flying it.

For now...  stirthepot 



Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineSlider From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 6785 posts, RR: 34
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 6 hours ago) and read 3253 times:

...and it pulls traffic off NW over MSP besides...

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3185 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 1):
Maybe FL should try MKE-BOS next. According to faremeasure, over 600 passengers fly it daily and FL has a decent sized following in BOS.

Probably would be good route for FL with the BOS following they have there. Would put more pressure on YX as they already run this route as well. Could FL support another route out of they gates they have there in BOS now?

Would the next smart step for FL out of MKE be LGA & LAX? From a # of passenger standpoint seems like LGA would make the most sense? Can FL run more routes out of their existing gates in MKE, I thought they were somewhat strapped for gate space at MKE?

All in all, MKE-LAS looks like it could be a winner for FL. I guess the folks in MKE are willing to do without their cookies in exchange for a better fare, coke & some Biscoff's!



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineCOERJ145 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 1421 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3159 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):
Probably would be good route for FL with the BOS following they have there. Would put more pressure on YX as they already run this route as well. Could FL support another route out of they gates they have there in BOS now?

NW tried this(as well a bunch of other YX cities) with CRJs and even(i think) and A319 back in 2003/2004. Now all MKE has from NW is CUN, MSP, DTW and MEM. Point being they probably wouldn't do well.


User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3157 times:

Not to m entio

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):
I guess the folks in MKE are willing to do without their cookies in exchange for a better fare, coke & some Biscoff's!

Not to mention the great ops numbers AirTran is posting right now. That's how Southwest did it. Get them there on time, with their bags, and at a reasonable fare.... 70% of the folks don't care (nor remember) what the inside of the plane looks like. They just remember if it was easy, and the personnel they dealt with were nice.


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3130 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 8):
Not to mention the great ops numbers AirTran is posting right now. That's how Southwest did it. Get them there on time, with their bags, and at a reasonable fare.... 70% of the folks don't care (nor remember) what the inside of the plane looks like. They just remember if it was easy, and the personnel they dealt with were nice.

There has been alot of mudslinging up in MKE, but I wonder if this hasn't backfired to some degree for YX. I think before all this started, most people up there never heard of Airtran. Perhaps with all the press, people are giving them a try regardless of what they read.


User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8400 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3118 times:

It's raining piss in MKE... how nice of AirTran to cool people off with it  Smile

User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3097 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 10):
It's raining piss in MKE... how nice of AirTran to cool people off with it

We do what we can...... it's all about the people.  Wink


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 775 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3057 times:

Quoting COERJ145 (Reply 7):
NW tried this(as well a bunch of other YX cities) with CRJs and even(i think) and A319 back in 2003/2004. Now all MKE has from NW is CUN, MSP, DTW and MEM. Point being they probably wouldn't do well.

May be, but who wants to go to DTW & MEM from MKE? LAS, Florida destinations all have an attraction to it and there are a lot of folks in WI that want to get away during the winter months especially. Other than CUN the list you provided is at best business destinations and YX admittedly has the lions share of that in MKE. So, wouldn't it be wiser for FL to entree into MKE with touristy destinations such as LAX, PHX and yes even BOS (to some degree) then capture more of the biz crowd down the road.

Plus, with FL using their 717's & 737's it seems that there CASM should be lower than NW using CRJ's and 319's to such hot destinations as MEM & DTW.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2490 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3028 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 12):
May be, but who wants to go to DTW & MEM from MKE? LAS, Florida destinations all have an attraction to it and there are a lot of folks in WI that want to get away during the winter months especially. Other than CUN the list you provided is at best business destinations and YX admittedly has the lions share of that in MKE. So, wouldn't it be wiser for FL to entree into MKE with touristy destinations such as LAX, PHX and yes even BOS (to some degree) then capture more of the biz crowd down the road.

Exactly right.
Joe Leonard has said before that a big percentage of YX's profits come from a few select routes (as it is with all carriers I guess). Perhaps FL is putting a toe in the water on those routes.


User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1397 posts, RR: 8
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2991 times:

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 13):
Perhaps FL is putting a toe in the water on those routes.

IMHO, the MKE-LAS route was low-hanging fruit for FL to pick from and is consistent with some of the other routes to LAS that were announced around the same time.

I believe it is in FL's best interest to stay out of YX's bread-and-butter routes for now as a "new" FL (read: with YX hypothetically brought into the fray) would be purportedly a hybrid of the two airlines and not as simply more of the same "old" FL. YX would surely match FL's fares on trunk routes to LGA, BOS, DCA, etc. and given a choice between the product offerings, I don't think FL wants to necessarily show their product compared to YX.

With that said, clearly YX is stretched as thin as they can get, i.e. have no spare aircraft to deploy at expense of other routes that they currently fly (and subbing a CRJ isn't going to cut it...they only have so many of those at their disposal too). If the numbers added up, I don't think a 1x daily MKE-LAX or MKE-SFO route is completely out of the question, but not unlike the offer to acquire YX, I think FL is playing the waiting game on those too.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5353 posts, RR: 15
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2986 times:

I've wondered for over a year why YX hasn't started SAN-MKE (they give us a second MCI flight in the summers instead) so perhaps AirTran should think about starting that route out of MKE as well...  stirthepot  (It would certainly make more sense for YX to do it since they would carry connecting traffic as well as O&D but they just don't seem interested.)

bb


User currently offlineN822ME From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2978 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 8):
Not to mention the great ops numbers AirTran is posting right now. That's how Southwest did it. Get them there on time, with their bags, and at a reasonable fare.... 70% of the folks don't care (nor remember) what the inside of the plane looks like. They just remember if it was easy, and the personnel they dealt with were nice.

Funny how one of the consistently best baggage numbers in the AirTran system for a station of its size is Los Angeles.... and Midwest ground handles FL there.  Wink

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):
All in all, MKE-LAS looks like it could be a winner for FL. I guess the folks in MKE are willing to do without their cookies in exchange for a better fare, coke & some Biscoff's!

Given that the Midwest flights to Vegas consistently go out full, and they sell blocks of seats through a vacation partnership, more likely that Midwest simply doesn't have the capacity in the market to handle the demand. And sounds like enough spill for both Midwest and AirTran to fill flights.


User currently offline4everRC From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 325 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2963 times:

Quoting JetJeanes (Reply 3):
Ahh six months from now they will have yx begging to take them over...

Facts to back that up, please? Once again, another FL fan that doesn't understand that YX is not just another airline to MKE and the state of WI.



Nobody served our republic like Republic!
User currently offlineSideflare75 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 613 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 2927 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 15):
I've wondered for over a year why YX hasn't started SAN-MKE

Lack of an airplane to start.


User currently offlineTravatl From United States of America, joined Mar 2001, 2173 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 2895 times:

Quoting N822ME (Reply 16):
Funny how one of the consistently best baggage numbers in the AirTran system for a station of its size is Los Angeles.... and Midwest ground handles FL there.

Exactly - you'd think Midwest would have better numbers system wide.  Wink


User currently offlineN822ME From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2863 times:

Quoting Travatl (Reply 19):
Exactly - you'd think Midwest would have better numbers system wide.

Low baggage numbers is somewhere Midwest is probably happy to be in the same category as AirTran. AirTran does a good job overall with baggage mishandles.


User currently offlineBoeing743 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days ago) and read 2852 times:

Airtran has been doing very well on any of n/s routes out of IND, we has been growing so slowly. They has really listen to people and listen to what they want and where they want to go. Airtran has been flying n/s to almost all of florida cities from IND. I would not be surprised that MKE-LAS are doing well. Many people has been want to fly non stop from any cities they live to LAS easy without make connection. I has been flying non stop to LAS but vacation package said it would be cheaper if I make connection which I had to make twice already.

User currently offlineCitrusCritter From Pitcairn Islands, joined May 2007, 1093 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 2786 times:

Quoting N822ME (Reply 16):
Given that the Midwest flights to Vegas consistently go out full, and they sell blocks of seats through a vacation partnership, more likely that Midwest simply doesn't have the capacity in the market to handle the demand. And sounds like enough spill for both Midwest and AirTran to fill flights.

There probably is enough capacity for both airlines. But LAS is primarily a tourist destination and most families want to save as much money as possible during their vacations including airfare. Clearly some are getting a good deal booking YX through a vacation operator, but others are booking a-la-carte and finding FL to have the better price. Given the very few rewards seats that YX is offering (according to those on Flyertalk who are having problems getting any rewards seats), even some people that might choose YX for business are possibly choosing FL for vacation. It's much easier to book an expensive seat when you're using your company's travel budget rather than your personal budget.



TLH
User currently offlineKnope2001 From United States of America, joined May 2005, 2871 posts, RR: 30
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2759 times:

Not to interrupt the Midwest eulogy planning here, but remember that AirTran's once-daily MKE-LAS flight actually runs BWI-MKE-LAS. This one-stop BWI-LAS is AirTran's fastest and only direct flight from their BWI focus city to Las Vegas. We won't know exactly how many MKE-LAS seats are actually taken up by BWI-LAS thru passengers until stats come out a few months down the road. But based on some Orbitz quick date searches, AirTran is often the cheapest on BWI-LAS, and the via-MKE 1-stops to Vegas are often the lowest fares. And that suggests a good number of BWI-LAS thru passnegers.

BWI-LAS is most advance-purchase leisure travel. Round trip fares for BWI-LAS via MKE if you look 6-10+ weeks out are generally $178-$278 round trip.

Not every single day are the cheapest AirTran fares left on the BWI-LAS via-MKE flights as of this evening. But they are on many days, and fares available on longer-advance purchase days seem like loss-leaders. Those $178 round trips BWI-LAS via MKE earn AirTran $26.35 for the BWI-MKE leg and $62.65 for the MKE-LAS leg if you allocate the total fare by miles.

Full flights are nice, and it wouldn't be a huge surprise to find that AirTran does carry a signfiicant number of MKE-LAS locals. This time last year Northwest largely filled an Airbus every day on MKE-LAS with local passengers only along side the 3x/day Midwest M80's. That NW nonstop flight ended earlier this year, after 3 1/2 years of flying, because they apparently didn't make money in spite of load factors regularly in the 80's, even with almost 100% local traffic. Full planes don't necessarily make money.


User currently offlineCubsrule From United States of America, joined May 2004, 22718 posts, RR: 20
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 2699 times:

Quoting DeltaDAWG (Reply 6):
Can FL run more routes out of their existing gates in MKE, I thought they were somewhat strapped for gate space at MKE?

Not at all. They could easily add 8-10 daily flights in their current gates.

Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 23):
We won't know exactly how many MKE-LAS seats are actually taken up by BWI-LAS thru passengers until stats come out a few months down the road.



Quoting Knope2001 (Reply 23):
This time last year Northwest largely filled an Airbus every day on MKE-LAS with local passengers only

Every time I flew the 7 PM DTW-MKE flight when the aircraft continued to LAS, there were a good handful of through passengers. How much of the flight was NW really filling with local pax?



I can't decide whether I miss the tulip or the bowling shoe more
25 Skyexramper : But yet our own people at MCI can hardly get bags on the right flights to MKE, PIT or CMH. They fail to load sooo many bags it's not funny. Also FLL
26 Knope2001 : I shouldn't have said "this time last year" because things changed in February of 2006. From July 2003 to February 2006 the MKE-LAS flight was a morn
27 Vivavegas : Little birdy told me this past weekend to look for a 2nd R/T this winter (Oct?). Likely a evening departure with Red Eye return. Honestly this is not
28 CitrusCritter : The same mistake is often made by people talking about MCO as well. LAS and MCO are the two biggest business convention destinations in the country.
29 Quickmover : I think FL is beginning to handle LAS like they have MCO. Adding a LAS nonstop on top of flights to the hub and some Florida destinations. The cities
30 JetJeanes : Watch yx numbers drop next quarter..They are being blindsided and cant do a thing about it. They may as well hand over those 717,s now
31 Quickmover : The Airtran presentation board meeting is Monday. I wonder if they will be able to turn 2 directors. That's all they need.
32 Post contains links Vivavegas : YX adds additional frequency October 1. - http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070711/aqw142.html?.v=8 Craig MKE
33 N822ME : No better, no worse than MKE.[Edited 2007-07-12 00:57:55]
34 Cubsrule : I think that's exactly how NW used it- to improve yields on the nonstops (by dumping low fares on the MKE flight) I could believe something in the ne
35 Knope2001 : Could be. I've seen several times in the past year or two where a cheap web special fare from MKE, MSN, and ORD to LAS was a NW flight via an IND-LAS
36 2175301 : Actually, as I have said before, Airtran can probably operate along with Midwest for many routes without affecting each other significantly. Airtran s
37 DAYflyer : An interesting battle is shaping up here no doubt. FL is sending Midwest some signals that they believe they can effectively compete with them on many
38 TVNWZ : Midwest has always had some sort of competition to LAS out of MKE. the market supported NW and YX. the market will support FL and YX. And there are s
39 2175301 : And that is what it is... An interesting battle. Incidentally, in regards to competition on routes... one that Midwest has won before, and one that I
40 SkyexRamper : I can't speak for the Midwest side, but the skyway side has very few miss loads.
41 Quickmover : These new board members were specifically selected and completely controlled and directed by Airtran. I'm sure they can't officially say who is pulli
42 2175301 : Actually, I believe you are making a mistake in thinking that Airtan is calling the shots with the new board-members. Airtran is hoping the board-mem
43 N908AW : Ha, in Minnesota even that is irrelevant! Speaking of Minnesota...YX is doing quite well in MSP...perhaps if they can capitalize on these routes FL w
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