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"Non-Viewing" Window Seats  
User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12651 times:

Is it possible to find out which so-called "window seats" on any particular aircraft are really next to a blank wall?

No airline seating chart I've seen (I haven't seen them all, of course) will own up to having window seats that, well, aren't. Also, I've had a good look at Web sites such as SeatGuru and seatmaestro, without finding any comment such as "beware: this window seat actually has no window".

A few weeks ago, I flew CO trans-Atlantic on a 757 and the passenger behind me was stuck with a window that wasn't, no matter how much she reclined her seat-back. She (audibly) didn't like discovering what she'd carefully chosen wasn't what she'd been led to believe it would be (in the event, CO re-seated her...but couldn't the whole situation have been avoided by having an honest seat map on the Web site?).

I realise this sort of question has been asked here before, at least as far as specific airline/aircraft combinations are concerned. However, what prompts me to ask right now is that I'm flying tomorrow AF / BOS-CDG on a 747-400 and I think my seat allocation (24A) might be in that part of the cabin where windows are much less numerous. Should I worry? (Okay, it's an overnight flight which makes it matter a lot less, but I thought the question worth asking.)

Thanks, everyone.

Argonaut


'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
56 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineIsitsafenow From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4984 posts, RR: 23
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12596 times:

Seatguru.com does work pretty good. The comment pops up when you place the curser(that cute little arrow) on the seat.

From a flight last week, I can tell you that Midwest(Skyways) Beech 1900D does not have a window in
row one.
safe



If two people agree on EVERYTHING, then one isn't necessary.
User currently offlinePlateMan From United States of America, joined May 2007, 923 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12596 times:

I wish I knew too. Flew KLM yesterday from AMS to LHR. Was in 6C on a 737 and no window in that row at all. Feels extra-cramped. Their seat maps online even has that seat as first class or whatever they call it, wishful thinking.


"Explore. Dream. Discover." -Mark Twain
User currently offlineACDC8 From Canada, joined Mar 2005, 7642 posts, RR: 35
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12582 times:

Rows 11 and 18 on LTU's A332 are windowless window seats, be warned. I asked for a window seat, they gave me row 11, on my return flight, I asked for a window seat, not row 11 because there was no window and I'd like a window, so they gave row 18 which also has no window.


A Grumpy German Is A Sauerkraut
User currently offlineDLOnur From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12567 times:

DL's MD-88's/90's show "window seats" in the seat map at the back of the AC but there are no windows way in the back.....it's just the fuselage wall....


What you believe is what you see.
User currently offlineUSCGC130 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12567 times:

Why would an airplane be designed in such a way that this is even an issue in the first place? That's braindead.

I understand that varying the seat pitch will inevitably place a few seats "out of phase" with the windows. But consider how the 707 had an unbroken expanse of windows all the way down the sides, from one passenger door to the other. Between that and the relatively small size of the windows (compared to, say, those on the DC-8), every row had at least one window no matter what the seat pitch was -- usually two.


User currently offlineZander From Sweden, joined Feb 2000, 610 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12551 times:

ACDC8,
That's what I call bad luck, barely annoying  Wink


User currently offlineMikesairways From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 711 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12551 times:
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19A/19F on NWA 757's have are a windowless "window." I found out the hardway after my seat was changed when the a/c was downgraded from 753 to 752. At least it was a redeye so there wasn't much to see anyway, but still.  Sad


The red zone is for the immediate loading and unloading of passengers only, there is no stopping in the white zone...(Ai
User currently offlineNycaviator From United States of America, joined May 2007, 55 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12530 times:

Be sure to check seatguru.com
I nearly swear by that site.

I learned the hard way once on a Delta 767-300 flight sitting in 13G without a window. Was not very pleasant. What I did find quite surprising is the legroom was much more than I expected.



Flying is like having eyes on the top of the world.
User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11335 posts, RR: 52
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12478 times:

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 5):
Why would an airplane be designed in such a way that this is even an issue in the first place? That's braindead.

Can't have windows where the air conditioning packs run from the roof to the base of the fuselage, for one. I've heard another reason being that you can't have windows in line with the propellers or the first stage of a turbofan engine because that area of the fuselage is fortified in the event of a failure. Not sure I buy that second one though, at least not on the jets. But I've noticed that is the case with both Dash-8s and 757s.



Send me a PM at http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/sendmessage.main?from_username=NULL
User currently offlineTristarSteve From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 4007 posts, RR: 34
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12465 times:

Quoting USCGC130 (Reply 5):
Why would an airplane be designed in such a way that this is even an issue in the first place? That's braindead.

I understand that varying the seat pitch will inevitably place a few seats "out of phase" with the windows. But consider how the 707 had an unbroken expanse of windows all the way down the sides, from one passenger door to the other.

B707 up to B737-200 had the air conditioning risers in tiny little pipes that went round the windows. About six each side. It didn't work very well. The pipes got clogged with dust and stopped working. So from the B733/B757/B767 onwards they gave up and took out a window and put a single big pipe each side instead. I see on the B787 that it has the same idea except the windowless row is behind the wing instead of in front of it.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12449 times:

Quoting Isitsafenow (Reply 1):
Seatguru.com does work pretty good.

They are good about calling these rows out, but they really have limited airlines/aircraft. not sure why, after all this time, they don't add more planes or airlines.

Quoting D L X (Reply 9):
Not sure I buy that second one though, at least not on the jets. But I've noticed that is the case with both Dash-8s and 757s.

I've been told it's not the case, but it's also kind of interesting that these air conditioning ducts do line up with the fans on the Boeing narrowbodies. It might be a happy coincidence.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePiedmontINT From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 376 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 12416 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 11):
not sure why, after all this time, they don't add more planes or airlines.

The site is actually run by a guy and his wife out of their home. There was a link to a USA Today article a while back that talked about it I believe..


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12350 times:

Quoting Argonaut (Thread starter):
Also, I've had a good look at Web sites such as SeatGuru and seatmaestro, without finding any comment such as "beware: this window seat actually has no window".

Seatguru has worked for every aircraft I've tried it on...and they seem to have a very comprehensive collection of aircraft for a free (advertiser supported) website:

Continental 737-300 row 7 "Seat 7F is missing a window. If you like having a view, choose another seat."
Continental 737-500 row 8 "Seats 8 A,B,C,D,E,F are standard Economy seats, though this row is missing a window."
Delta 737-800 row 13 "Seat 13A is missing a window. If you like having a view, choose another seat. Some passengers feel it is slightly cramped due to the panel that is in place of the window"
Mylasia A320-200 row 23 "...though this row is missing a window..."
QANTAS A330-300 row 28 "...though this row is missing a window..."
Virgin Atlantic A340-600 row 32 "...though this row is missing a window..."
etc.



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineJetJeanes From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 1431 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12305 times:

I got the 1st flyt on a 767-400er? out of Lga to atl and I got stuck with just a wall, all i could see was the route map screen.. booooring


i can see for 80 miles
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 12272 times:

Quoting PiedmontINT (Reply 12):
The site is actually run by a guy and his wife out of their home.

The site was incorporated, hired employees, and is now owned by tripadvisor.com. It's not just some guy in a basement.

They take ad money, they have increased hits over time and track views to earn compensation from their sponsors, and they do get feedback on other aircraft. I know, I've sent it.

They just don't seem to add aircraft or airlines. It's a business, so it's fair game to ask why they don't expand their business.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently onlineNWADC9 From United States of America, joined May 2004, 4897 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12181 times:

Last row in the DC-9 is windowless
First row in the B1900D is windowless (but you got the cockpit window  Wink )
Most, if not all rows, of the AN-72 is windowless



Flying an aeroplane with only a single propeller to keep you in the air. Can you imagine that? -Capt. Picard
User currently offlineArgonaut From UK - Scotland, joined Dec 2004, 422 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12108 times:

Thanks for all the input. I stand corrected re SeatGuru...perhaps there really are no non-viewing window seats on an AF 747, and that's why they don't describe any of the seats as windowless. The last time I flew on a BA 744, there were definitely some rows without windows, and IIRC the same has been true of pretty much any 747 I've flown on no matter what the model.

Last year I was concerned about the same thing on an Air New Zealand 763 flight. However, when I got on the plane, I found that NZ had very cleverly (and perhaps even considerately?) located their crew-rest mini-cabins in exactly those windowless areas, so no passenger had to live without a window. Neat.

For me, it's not just that the lack of a window makes a less interesting journey, it's almost as much that the blank wall has a claustrophobic effect. Part of the reason I prefer the window is precisely because it counteracts that effect.

I know it's the air-con ducting that gives rise to the problem, and I understand that airlines want to get as many seats into the cabin as possible. What peeves me is that a seat is being, in effect, advertised as having a window when it doesn't.

Meanwhile, I guess I'll just hope for the best on my AF flight...it's the second BOS-CDG flight of the evening, so maybe it won't be full and if necessary I can change my seat.

It would be great to compile a list of all the bum seats on airliners...I'd do it myself, except that, well, I have other things going on as well  Smile



'the rank is but the guinea stamp'
User currently offlineSoups From Ghana, joined Jun 2004, 3438 posts, RR: 14
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 12070 times:

I have had ot on LX A321 and BA 777 its really annoying when you book a window seat to find out there is no window


Next destinations, Suarabaya, beirut, paris, Accra
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5235 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11948 times:

It used to be that on AA's MD-80 in row 31 (MRTC configuration), there was a window, but all you could see was the engine cowling.

User currently offlineCO777DAL From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 616 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11916 times:

How about the 717? Are there any window seats before the wing without windows? Midwest here.


Worked Hard. Flew Right. Farewell, Continental. Thanks for the memories.
User currently offlineFlyDeltaJets87 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 11862 times:

Two years in a row my family flew DL and of the two rows we had booked, one of the rows we had selected was a "windowless window seat". So both years I made my parents take the windowless window seat row since they were the ones who refused to listen to me when selecting those seats in the first place. Sucked for them that they got to miss the nice view of Waikiki Beach and Diamond Head taking off out of HNL one of those years.



Now they do listen to me when selecting seats.


User currently offlineLincoln From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 3887 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11773 times:

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 17):
Thanks for all the input. I stand corrected re SeatGuru...perhaps there really are no non-viewing window seats on an AF 747, and that's why they don't describe any of the seats as windowless. The last time I flew on a BA 744, there were definitely some rows without windows, and IIRC the same has been true of pretty much any 747 I've flown on no matter what the model.

It's possible that there either aren't any missing windows or that no one has submitted the correction to seatguru-- if you know of information that's incorrect on SeatGuru, by all means submit an update (IIRC, there's a link on most pages) so that other travelers may be better informed  Smile

Lincoln



CO Is My Airline of Choice || Baggage Claim is an airline's last chance to disappoint a customer || Next flts in profile
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21526 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 11746 times:

Quoting Argonaut (Reply 17):
What peeves me is that a seat is being, in effect, advertised as having a window when it doesn't.

There is no advertisement for window seats.

AFAIK, window seats don't cost more, at least not on any airline I've been on.

The only advertisement I've seen re: aisle/window are the ones that say "no middle seat" for full fare, or something to that effect.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlinePhxplanes From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 436 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 11638 times:

I have always wondered why they have those gaps in windows, I always figured it was for extra structural support.
Here is a picture so you can see the gaps.

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Jeff Gilbert - JGPhotographics



25 SilentObserver : most Y+ rows on a United EXplus CR7, have horribly misalined windows, even row one of first class is this way. I love EXplus but the windows are horri
26 N710PS : On Mesa CR9's every seat is a non view window seat. And a leg smasher to boot. I much like our CR7's for that reason. I feel like I am in first class
27 CoolGuy : What about the windows near the rear of the 717. There's a window there but you won't see much! Except an engine.
28 AC888YOW : Seatguru worked beautifully for me on a recent nonstop YOW-YVR with Westjet. When selecting my seat I had initially picked 8F (737-700). For some reas
29 Mustang304 : Actually, you are right. In some aircraft it is where the sections of the aircraft are joined during the Final Body Join process. It is usually indic
30 Post contains links OptionsCLE : Try www.seatexpert.com. I'm pretty sure that they use stolen data from SeatGuru, but they actually picture which windows are blocked and in my experie
31 VScaptain : I think row 7 on BEs BAe-146's
32 AeroVodochody : AA's MD-80's have no windows in row 32 and the ones in row 31 are obstructed by the engine. Seatguru does have it noted though. Maybe they should be c
33 SW733 : Yeah I flew a Mesaba/NWA Saab 340 and was in a seat towards the front on the left that had no window, right where the prop blade was. Only time I ever
34 Isz1 : There is a reason to that design. The no window seats/blank walls are actually a life saver during emergency crashland or ditching. In case of emergen
35 KangarooMAN : AB's 737-800's have no window in 10A but they do in 10F, I found that out on a MAN-HAM-ZRH routing assigned myself 10A for MAN-HAM and then in HAM got
36 Marcus : On all of Volaris' A319's their row 24 seats are windowless........the last row to have windows is row 23.
37 Post contains images SQA350 : Airlines are pure evil, it often seems they give you those bad seats on purpose when you request for a window seat. But we are smarter and will beat
38 Ag92 : I know SQ shows it during online check-in Regards Ag92
39 Jano : NWA's A333 row 15 filler.............
40 Albird87 : AA's 777 have no window in the biz section at row 13. I found this out after getting excited that i was upgraded and that it was a window to then find
41 Albird87 : AA's 777 have no window in the biz section at row 11. I found this out after getting excited that i was upgraded and that it was a window to then find
42 Albird87 : sorry first post is wrong. My second one about row 11 is the correct one!!
43 CodyKDiamond : The last row on CA's 722's are windowless.
44 OB1504 : Fortunately, on most airplanes I've been on, it seems that most of the completely windowless sections of the cabin are occupied by lavatories, galley
45 Ikramerica : For some reason, some 737NG have two missing windows on the right side of the plane and 1 on the left side, some have 1 and 1, and some have 2 and 2.
46 CoolGuy : A lavatory with a window would be nice.
47 Ayqzbr : I discovered that row 14 on at least one version of Air Canada's 767-300 has no window - on a flight out of SXM. My wife was highly amused that my sup
48 PlaneMad : Row 19 on the VS A346's in premium have no windows. So seats 19A & K have no window. I think it is listed on seatguru as having no window...
49 Post contains links JamesJimlb : http://www.flickr.com/photos/bamassippi/13035636/ here you go.
50 Renfnl : Any airlines have this option? I've always thought it would be a good idea
51 Ayqzbr : AC's new 777s have lavs with windows - really neat!
52 Post contains images Argonaut : Thanks again for all the interesting posts. Maybe I should just forward the entire thread to seatguru! As for the question that prompted me to start t
53 N911YX : On the Midwest Airlines 717s there are no blocked windows north of row 22 which is the last on the YX a/c. Row 21's windows are mostly taken up by th
54 Post contains images Isitsafenow : TWA 749A connies had em but I bet you are too young to remember that one... safe [Edited 2007-07-15 18:28:34]
55 Post contains links and images Viscount724 : Saab 2000s have a full size window in the lavatory (at least those previously operated by LX did). I believe SK's 737NGs also have a window in the la
56 Post contains images Airbuseric : I remember SK B736 having the front lavatory, left side of aircraft, having a window. It can even be blinded. Don't know why that's neccesary, nobody
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