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Any Hint Of AA Order At 787 Launch?  
User currently offlineJAM747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2005, 550 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3473 times:

Does any one know if there was any good hint at the 787 launch of a AA order? Were there any officials there from AA at the launch? I did notice that when they were showing line up of pictures with the tails of airlines who ordered the 787 there was a blue tail with a logo which looks very much like the AA logo of the eagle. Did anyone else see this or am I confusing it with another airline?

7 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineAA787823 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 3435 times:

At the present time AA has no plans to order the 787 till 2009 at the earliest, assuming an agreement is reached with APA/TWU and APFA in 2008. If not then dont look for an order until those are done. IMHO I dont think AA will order any new airplanes until 2012-2013 timeframe. I spoke to Bob Redding the other day about this and he said basically the same.

User currently offlineAA757200 From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 157 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3349 times:

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 1):
I dont think AA will order any new airplanes until 2012-2013 timeframe.

Incorrect. The economics of waiting to place an order until 2013 would crush AA. The competitive advantages that their competitors will possess (NW, CO, DL (assuming DL orders as well)) will create an insurmountable market gap between AA and its domestic competitors, in terms of the type of product they CAN offer, and the routes they can fly. Never mind the crippling cost of maintaining an aging fleet, the environmental focus the industry is coming under, and the simple economics of being able to do more with modern aircraft, that allow airlines to break through the economic and physical constraints that operating out of date fleets create for them. By 2013, the economics of a huge MD80 fleet, in addition to 767s that will be long in the tooth simply won't work well for AA. In addition, the A300 leases will have long expired, and initial renewal options will be close to term as well. The long and the short of it, is they will have to plan for the future, and that means placing an order sooner rather than later.

AA has already accelerated a decent number of order this year, and it is a safe bet that they will begin ordering aircraft within 12 to 16 months.

Who is Bob Reddnig?


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 2 hours ago) and read 3228 times:

Quoting AA757200 (Reply 2):

Who is Bob Reddnig?

SVP of Tech Ops... The ones that bid on the Gold Care contract for the 787...

I agree... I think once the pilots and FA contracts are revised in the 08 time range the order will be made... AA has been and has said that they are a good enough customer from Boeing that they can get planes when they want...

The 787 will enter AA's fleet... just gotta wait for the pilots to get their head out of their A$$es



Why do I fly???
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3174 times:

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 3):
The 787 will enter AA's fleet... just gotta wait for the pilots to get their head out of their A$$es

Care to elaborate?

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 3):
I think once the pilots and FA contracts are revised in the 08 time range the order will be mad

Under the RLA, contracts are amendable not revised.


User currently offlineReins485 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 136 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3109 times:

Quoting AA787823 (Reply 1):
At the present time AA has no plans to order the 787 till 2009

AA has publicly said they have "rights to purchase the 787" in a deal earlier this year when they accelerated 737 deliveries in March of 07. Furthermore, Boeing said right before Paris that they were in preliminary talks with AA and DL. I think you will see an order in either the 4th quarter of this year or the 1st one of 08. They can not wait much longer than that because the A300s leases are up in the next few years and AA will want to at least order enough planes to replace those them.


User currently offlineHPAEAA From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1024 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 3018 times:

Quoting PhilSquares (Reply 4):
Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 3):
I think once the pilots and FA contracts are revised in the 08 time range the order will be mad

Under the RLA, contracts are amendable not revised.

Apologies, should have been MADE... but irregardless.. here's the response..

Your right... Amendable... but they expire a few years there after... and not to mention AA has the highest Pilot costs vs productivity in the industry... that aside though...

APA has public said they want all of their concessions back... the result of such a event would be that the FA's , CSRs, Ramp, MX, MGNT and Dispatch would all get their concessions back as well... Result? AA would increase CASM by nearly 50 percent of current level... Highly to the disadvantage of the company... no other pilots group is as bold as to ask for the level of compensation before their givebacks after 9/11...

One of the only bargaining chips that MGNT has to give to the APA is the promise of expanded membership/added job security for current membership.... that being said, it'll be an offer to the APA to expand mainline flying at the expense of regional flying, in which APA will allow some concessions form their current stance... along with that will be the offer to purchase A/C that the company needs to expand and replace the current fleet which is aging, not to mention given the size will take many years to do (the sooner they start the better)...



Why do I fly???
User currently offlinePhilSquares From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 2835 times:

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 6):
APA has public said they want all of their concessions back... the result of such a event would be that the FA's , CSRs, Ramp, MX, MGNT and Dispatch would all get their concessions back as well... Result? AA would increase CASM by nearly 50 percent of current level... Highly to the disadvantage of the company... no other pilots group is as bold as to ask for the level of compensation before their givebacks after 9/11...

First of all, to tie the other labor groups to APA is somewhat of a stretch, they (other labor groups) don't have "me too" agreements in place. As far as CASM rising by 50% that's somewhat of a bold statement as labor is only 20-30% of CASM while fuel is the largest factor.

In addition, what APA says publicly and what their position at the table is are two very different issues.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 6):
no other pilots group is as bold as to ask for the level of compensation before their givebacks after 9/11...

The other pilot groups you refer to have all been under bankruptcy proceedings and ran the risk of a court imposed 1113 filing. APA is in a very different position.

Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 6):
One of the only bargaining chips that MGNT has to give to the APA is the promise of expanded membership/added job security for current membership.... that being said, it'll be an offer to the APA to expand mainline flying at the expense of regional flying, in which APA will allow some concessions form their current stance... along with that will be the offer to purchase A/C that the company needs to expand and replace the current fleet which is aging, not to mention given the size will take many years to do (the sooner they start the better)...

I guess I don't share your position that AA management will promise to expand mainline flying at the expense of their regionals. The economics just aren't there. In addition, any job growth promised will be a hollow promise as other carriers have proved in the past. The first hiccup of the economy and management will be back asking for relief.

With respect to the offer to purchase aircraft, AA has to do that anyhow. It's in the company's best interest and the shareholders to maintain or increase market share. The only way to do that is by increasing their fleet size and moving to a more cost effective fleet.

Sorry, I don't hold the same benevolent view of management that you do.


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