Assuming this goes forward, CLE would be offering a fairly modest amount per flight (promotional cash and waived landing fees), little enough that it may not be much incentive. Still, they're trying; we'll see what it brings.
I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
AirTranTUS From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 2 days 13 hours ago) and read 4505 times:
The only airlines I could see adding service are WN, CO, and DL. CO could start service to additional destinations (SEA was mentioned), and DL and WN could add competition. WN is dropping their only PHX-CLE nonstop, so they probably won't add flights to the west coast (LAX, LAS, etc.). DL is building up LAX, and already flies LAX-CMH daily, so LAX-CLE would be a logical possibility.
CLE does have a tough time with F9 and FL to the south at CAK. F9 has 2x daily to DEN, and FL is starting to LAS soon.
I often resist the temptation to post out of cynicism and the reality of Cleveland's track record. Even as Hopkins over the past decade as evolved into a regional jet airport, there are still those with thoughts of LH 744's and JAL dancing in their heads. As MasseyBrown has suggested, the more likely scenario is for CO to grab the money and in return CLE may get another ERJ flight to somewhere.
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4136 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4031 times:
Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 1): DL is building up LAX, and already flies LAX-CMH daily, so LAX-CLE would be a logical possibility.
DL also offers CLE-SLC (flt# 899) 1x on mainline, so LAX would be a logical step. DL also serves CMH-SLC direct on mainline in addition to the obvious CVG flights (even though it is in KY, many still consider it OH) Not sure if AS would try CLE-SEA, but CO could make it work perhaps with an AS code-share.
Quoting MasseyBrown (Thread starter): Assuming this goes forward, CLE would be offering a fairly modest amount per flight (promotional cash and waived landing fees), little enough that it may not be much incentive. Still, they're trying; we'll see what it brings.
CLE represents the biggest market in the northern tier of states between PHL and DTW. They are doing everything to avoid what happened at PIT where service swooned drastically even with the entry of WN.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
Ncflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2000, 494 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 4010 times:
It is astounding how airlines have cut service to CLE-- yes I know every market is hit by the trend towards regionals but CLE has been slammed. Just noticed that AA is down to 5 daily eagles to ORD during the week. Whereas CMH is served by 10 and CVG 6? And CMH has 5 to DFW including several MD80s whereas CLE has 4 Eagles. Let the incentive money flow. DL only has 2 or 3 full size jets per day now in CLE too, they've really cut back.
Falcon84 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3980 times:
Quoting AirTranTUS (Reply 1): CLE does have a tough time with F9 and FL to the south at CAK. F9 has 2x daily to DEN, and FL is starting to LAS soon.
Overall, flies in the ontment, nothing more. F9 and FL are bothersome to CLE, but nothing more. They can't match CO's route structure, and if you look at CO's loads on the routes F9/FL serve out of CAK, it isn't hurting them that much.
Quoting HPAEAA (Reply 11): I wonder if they'll give it to carriers to reintroduce Mainline service and replace some of the RJs....
And, coincidentally, CO adds 30 new mainline aircraft in the next two years.....
MasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5598 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 3967 times:
Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 16): Just noticed that AA is down to 5 daily eagles to ORD during the week.
I suspect that AA ran all those short-haul ORD-CLE RJ's just as a way to preserve ORD operations until they could find something more profitable to do. AA probably resisted cutting ORD ops lest the FAA hold them to a lower level; and so they "banked" frequencies on the CLE route, among others.
With 4 airlines all offering a bunch of CLE-ORD/MDW flights, I can't fault AA for scheduling bigger RJ's while cutting frequencies to a still-respectable 5 a day.
[edited in hopes of making better sense]
[Edited 2007-07-14 06:26:55]
I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
TOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3308 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3874 times:
Quoting Ncflyer (Reply 16): Just noticed that AA is down to 5 daily eagles to ORD during the week. Whereas CMH is served by 10 and CVG 6?
Well, you've got to look at the entire picture.
AA 5x daily (all AE)
CO 8x daily (all COEX or COCONN)
UA 7x daily (5 mainline, 2 express)
WN 7x daily
CO 3x daily (all COEX or COCONN)
UA 7x daily (5 mainline, 2express)
AA 10x daily (all AE)
WN 7x daily
UA 5x daily (2 mainline, 3 express)
AA 6x daily (all AE)
DL 7x daily (all regional)
No CVG-MDW service
There are actually a lot more seats offered daily OVERALL in the CLE-CHI market. AA has wisely chosen to place assets elsewhere, rather than drive yield down to fill seats. AA likely gets a better yield overall in the CLE market. It's unlikely to see more AA service in CLE just because of the incentive.
Agreed. Until you start to see more mainline in that market, there's no reason for more seats there.
As for this money the city wants to give for expansion, it's probably a wise idea. CO will jump at the chance, to put in routes like CLE-SEA/SAN/PDX, maybe even HNL and AMS, if they're going to get paid for it.
It would also lead, I think, to lower-tier, if you will, expansion, on the RJ/turboprop level, with new markets to feed those flights, like ATW, DSM, ROA and others. They may not get the payment for those, but CO could very easily add even more routes, and really build the hub, with this offer.
Jetpixx From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 870 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week ago) and read 3553 times:
Is UA still running a 757 or two out of CLE? If so, then that is a lot of available seats. I'd like to see UA add LAX or SFO with this new incentive - or perhaps bump up their DEN service. UA has always been a big part of CLE.
: Between this latest incentive and the recently announced $16 million in grant/etc. offerings by the state for an expansion of the CLE hub I would def
: In the West for CO I could see SEA (year round), SAN (year round), PDX, ABQ, and YVR. In the Southeast there are a slew of routes CO, COEX, CO Connect
: Now THAT would be nice, but didn't CO have service to CLE from SLC with ERJ's back before 9/11?
: I believe it was with a 735. DL started the route with an RJ a few years back, and it's now and MD-90.
: SO CO could send a 735/733 to SLC from CLE...it seems there is that much traffic there...
: I think the route, due to DL's connections in the west, can handle the MD80 from DL and a 733/735 from CO especially since UAL decreased their DEN se
: Well yield must be horrible... the flights are always packed but HP/US about two months ago went from two to one daily nonstop on the PHX-CLE route..
: Technically cargo companies are airlines. Now what an incentive that would be for Fedex, UPS, etc.
: That's kinda where I was heading, lol...
: That "combat zone" for the Flats legislation was amazing to me. The final legislation hasn't been released, but the article doesn't indicate any proh
: Yeilds will definitely improve w/o WN in the picture. They were always offering the $99 each way and CO/HP matched. Nice for us travelers, but I coul