MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 47 Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3897 times:
No surprises here. LAXTIJ discontinued after JUL07 and FLLSDQ discontinued after AUG07.
Laxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 22024 posts, RR: 51 Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3827 times:
So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.
I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.
From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
Jetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 2901 posts, RR: 28 Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3702 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.
Exactly. The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.
I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.
Marcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1719 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3652 times:
That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper
Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
Ptugarin From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 325 posts, RR: 0 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3575 times:
Quoting Marcus (Reply 3): I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!,
This wasn't meant to be an O/D route, but more for LAX - to points in Mexico, and TIJ to points in USA and Asia.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 3546 times:
Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?
I am not the least surprised at the result, just the speed at which it happened?
CMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 984 posts, RR: 4 Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3488 times:
Quoting Marcus (Reply 3): That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper
I was going to do do a milage run from CMH-TIJ, routing would have been CMH-ATL-LAX-TIJ-LAX-ATL-CMH, would have banked 7000 plus miles, fare was $217 RT plus taxes which were right around $100. Planning on PDX instead, I can do that in a day for $150RT + taxes CMH-SLC-PDX-SLC-CMH 14 hours 4518 miles, $198
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 47 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3429 times:
Quoting SANFan (Reply 6): Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?
Started June 07 so it lasted about two months. It has got to be one of the worst route additions I've seen in a long time; no one took the addition seriously.
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 3373 times:
Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8): Started June 07 so it lasted about two months.
Hmmm, I see it as having lasted just a month... Again, I wonder if there were circumstances regarding TIJ or some logistics or regulatory/government problems that were not expected; this was one of the shortest-lived routes since AS tried to fly between SNA and YVR!
SLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 3858 posts, RR: 11 Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 3286 times:
Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1): So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.
Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!
I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2): The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.
We agree again! For International service the connectivity of ATL and the O&D that JFK can both support has been a great asset to their transformation. The O&D of LAX can offer some similar advantages to the Far East/Asia.
Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2): I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.
I do like what DL and OO are trying from SLC with their CRJs. One route I'm told that is currently seasonal is SLC-YYJ, that just might go year around in the next year or two. It is running an extra month into the fall, tentatively ending on October 28th rather than the end of September as it did last year. This route has given Vancouver Island an alternative (the island has over half a million people now) to AS/Horizon into SEA fro trans-border service or sticking passengers on BC Ferries to get over to YVR for other options. So the LAX-TIJ route was a good gamble for DL, but I think other Mexico cities further down will do better. That said, such new CRJ routes are much less of a gamble from a hub like SLC to places at or about 2 hours flying time in the west. A 763 route from SLC to CDG or LGW is MUCH more of a gamble, so hence the community subsidy requirement.
DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3257 times:
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10): Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!
Interestingly I posted essentially this same comment on the OTHER thread! Great minds...
MaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, RR: 47 Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3252 times:
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10): Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!
RobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 890 posts, RR: 0 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 3200 times:
Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.
Yellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 5153 posts, RR: 2 Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3089 times:
However a CO RJ to IAH could yield better results...
When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1389 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 3028 times:
I believe AeroCalifornia flew this route for many years. Does anyone know how their loads were. Of course, their route system was similar to WN's in that one plane city hopped.
RobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 890 posts, RR: 0 Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 2897 times:
I suspect that TIJ routes that might work would be to PHX, OAK and maybe IAH.
Fllcontinental From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 344 posts, RR: 0 Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 2800 times:
Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9): I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).
not just that but now AA is flying FLL to SDQ to try to crush NK
SANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 4719 posts, RR: 15 Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 2675 times:
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 12): Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.
This is just another piece of evidence that it doesn't work. It's an interesting relationship between Tijuana and San Diego, speaking here in civil aviation terms. For the many Mexican residents travelling in the US, SAN has pretty decent service (certainly to most of the US hubs) and there's always LAX. Apparently it is easier to cross the border into the US then continue to any US destination as a domestic/local passenger -- no airport customs or immigration to deal with.
Reciprocally, Lindbergh Field doesn't seem to be able to support much of any Mexico service. (We currently have 15 weekly flights on 3 cx to SJD, 1 flight per week to PVR, and 1 weekly flight to CUN -- and that apparently disappears for good in the fall.) As there is decent service to a lot of Mexico (and improving as time goes on) from Rodriguez Airport, many Mexico-bound US travellers either cross the border and fly (again as domestic pax) within Mexico (without airport customs) or go to LAX.
You have 2 large cities, in 2 separate countries, each with its own airport serving its own country and separated by less than 20 miles. I guess in the big picture, it's somewhat logical that neither city/airport has much service to the other country's cities. Maybe that's just the way it's going to stay, at least for a while.
MCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 245 posts, RR: 0 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 8 hours ago) and read 2524 times:
I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December. I figure time will tell if this is accurate. I understand the loads were pretty low on the route (30-40). Perhaps they expect the holiday season would be a better time of year to start this route.
VSMike From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 311 posts, RR: 7 Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2501 times:
Dang! This is a shame. I was just getting used to flying the TIJ route. I do occasional work in TIJ, and have learned to prefer flying directly there from MCO (via LAX), versus the cross-boarder drive (or walk) from SAN. Plus, my SkyMiles didn't disagree, either. At ~20 mins flight time, granted, it was a bit of a joke I suppose... too good to last. Obviously there isn't a real market here. The highest load I ever saw on the E145 was 7. Lowest, 2. I love the private plane feel, but I guess that doesn't pay the bills. It was an interesting contast to see an American flag carrier in TIJ, however, I cannot recall if/when another American airline flew there (anyone?). I haven't seen a US airline at TIJ for at least the past 3 years I've been heading down there. Their ground handlers, SEAT, were very, very friendly and accommodating.
Oh well, looks like I'll be on one of the last operations out of TIJ on 21st of July.
Good for DL. Bad for me.
Akizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 2451 times:
Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 18): I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December.
Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.
ATLBoiler From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2353 times:
Look for something regarding another one of the LAX-Mexico markets in the near future that's not performing well. Also look for some news regarding a couple of other Caribbean destinations recently opened.
HVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 405 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 2283 times:
Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 20): Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.
Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for. It's a route they thought they could fly strictly on O/D. The connecting pax would all still be sent through ATL.
Akizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0 Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 2158 times:
Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 22): Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for.
Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23): FLL-SDQ's times were perfect. The flight was meant for O&D, not connecting traffic.
Well they need to rethink that because there is not enough o/d traffic for them to survive if this route comes back.
DCA
25 DesertAir: A number of years ago there was a flight between OAK and TIJ a few times a week on Azteca (?). The flight then continued onto Guadalajara or some oth
26 MAH4546: Um, no. There is plenty of O&D traffic. MIA/FLL is Santo Domingo's large O&D market. Largest. Larger than even NYC. Larger than any other city. Delta
27 Oakjam: I flew on a Lineas Aereas Aztecas (ZE) from OAK to TIJ and then continuing to GDL last year on Aug 31. The flight had 58 people 10 going to TIJ and 48
28 HVNandrew: Could DL move the SDQ flight over to MCO? They already have a MCO-MEX flight (though I don't know how much longer that will be around...), plus inter-
29 Akizidy214: Umm, obviously not. If there was enough traffic the route wouldn't have gotten canned. AA doesn't even fly the route no stop yet. DL could pull route
30 NA747: DL's ATL-BQN and ATL-PSE also failed. Then again, they didn't offer daily service to either one (PSE was a 2x week affair). Not very convenient IMO. B
31 JetJeanes: AeroCalifornia must not have done to well they were on our cash list as they were broke or in bankruptcy. They had some of the dirtest planes ive ever
32 Yellowtail: When you say Caribbean......are you meaning from LAX?...if so, I suspect there is some good news about BZE!
33 MAH4546: Just because Delta was not succesful does not mean that the O&D traffic isn't there. It is. Delta simply wasn't able to capture it. Considering how p
35 DAL767400ER: Origin&Destination traffic, passengers that begin or end their routing in FLL, in contrast to a connecting passenger that is coming in from ATL to fl
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From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 15722 posts, 
From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1719 posts, 
For International service the connectivity of ATL and the O&D that JFK can both support has been a great asset to their transformation. The O&D of LAX can offer some similar advantages to the Far East/Asia.
I do like what DL and OO are trying from SLC with their CRJs. One route I'm told that is currently seasonal is SLC-YYJ, that just might go year around in the next year or two. It is running an extra month into the fall, tentatively ending on October 28th rather than the end of September as it did last year. This route has given Vancouver Island an alternative (the island has over half a million people now) to AS/Horizon into SEA fro trans-border service or sticking passengers on BC Ferries to get over to YVR for other options. So the LAX-TIJ route was a good gamble for DL, but I think other Mexico cities further down will do better. That said, such new CRJ routes are much less of a gamble from a hub like SLC to places at or about 2 hours flying time in the west. A 763 route from SLC to CDG or LGW is MUCH more of a gamble, so hence the community subsidy requirement.
From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, 
From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 31115 posts, 
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