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DL LAX-TIJ And FLL-SDQ Discontinued  
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17787 posts, RR: 46
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4791 times:

No surprises here. LAXTIJ discontinued after JUL07 and FLLSDQ discontinued after AUG07.


E pur si muove -Galileo
35 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26028 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 4721 times:

So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.

I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3345 posts, RR: 35
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):

I have to give DL credit however that atleast they are willing to pull the plug on routes that perform poorly and do not get involved in long term blood letting.

Exactly. The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.

I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.


User currently offlineMarcus From Mexico, joined Apr 2001, 1808 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4546 times:

That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper


Kids!....we are going to the happiest place on earth...TIJUANA! signed: Krusty the Clown
User currently offlinePtugarin From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 326 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4469 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 3):
I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!,

This wasn't meant to be an O/D route, but more for LAX - to points in Mexico, and TIJ to points in USA and Asia.


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5559 posts, RR: 12
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 4440 times:

Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?

I am not the least surprised at the result, just the speed at which it happened?

bb


User currently offlineCMHSRQ From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 995 posts, RR: 4
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4382 times:

Quoting Marcus (Reply 3):
That is sad news for TIJ.......but come to think I think I know why......... I looked at fares and they were at $320RT!!!!!!!!!!, and there was no promotion at all here in the city.........I told people about this and nobody knew anything, there was just a note on the local newspaper

I was going to do do a milage run from CMH-TIJ, routing would have been CMH-ATL-LAX-TIJ-LAX-ATL-CMH, would have banked 7000 plus miles, fare was $217 RT plus taxes which were right around $100. Planning on PDX instead, I can do that in a day for $150RT + taxes CMH-SLC-PDX-SLC-CMH 14 hours 4518 miles, $198



The voice of moderation
User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17787 posts, RR: 46
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4323 times:

Quoting SANFan (Reply 6):
Didn't the TJ route just very recently start, maybe last month? I just wonder how/why they pulled the plug that fast? Was it about more than just low loads?

Started June 07 so it lasted about two months. It has got to be one of the worst route additions I've seen in a long time; no one took the addition seriously.



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5559 posts, RR: 12
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 4267 times:

Quoting MaverickM11 (Reply 8):
Started June 07 so it lasted about two months.

Hmmm, I see it as having lasted just a month... Again, I wonder if there were circumstances regarding TIJ or some logistics or regulatory/government problems that were not expected; this was one of the shortest-lived routes since AS tried to fly between SNA and YVR!

bb

[Edited 2007-07-13 21:55:23]

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4126 posts, RR: 9
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 6 days ago) and read 4180 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
So we add Tijuana as another LAX experiment that failed to pan out for Delta. No surprise I guess - LAX-TIJ service was lunacy in my book from the minute it was announced.

Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!  biggrin 

Quoting MaverickM11 (Thread starter):
and FLLSDQ discontinued after AUG07.

I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2):
The thing is, an investment like opening up TIJ is virtually nothing to a carrier the size of Delta. If it is clear it doesn't work, you pull the plug. On the other hand, some of these international markets have little data or history to tell you if they will work or not. Sometimes the best way to find out is to stick your feet in. If you find a good market or two they might contribute profits for decades. You cancel the dogs as soon as possible and move on.

We agree again!  eyepopping  For International service the connectivity of ATL and the O&D that JFK can both support has been a great asset to their transformation. The O&D of LAX can offer some similar advantages to the Far East/Asia.

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 2):
I wouldn't advocate this approach as much for 777's, but for RJ's its way to open up some unique markets.

 checkmark  I do like what DL and OO are trying from SLC with their CRJs. One route I'm told that is currently seasonal is SLC-YYJ, that just might go year around in the next year or two. It is running an extra month into the fall, tentatively ending on October 28th rather than the end of September as it did last year. This route has given Vancouver Island an alternative (the island has over half a million people now) to AS/Horizon into SEA fro trans-border service or sticking passengers on BC Ferries to get over to YVR for other options. So the LAX-TIJ route was a good gamble for DL, but I think other Mexico cities further down will do better. That said, such new CRJ routes are much less of a gamble from a hub like SLC to places at or about 2 hours flying time in the west. A 763 route from SLC to CDG or LGW is MUCH more of a gamble, so hence the community subsidy requirement.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5559 posts, RR: 12
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4151 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):
Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!

Interestingly I posted essentially this same comment on the OTHER thread! Great minds...

bb


User currently offlineMaverickM11 From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 17787 posts, RR: 46
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4146 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 10):
Funny thing is now DL is trying LAX-SAN service (discussed in another thread). Looks as if they are landing the CRJ just a few miles up I-5!

And you don't have to pay $80 in taxes  Smile



E pur si muove -Galileo
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 4094 times:
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Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.

Why No US Carriers To TIJ? (by RobertS975 Oct 15 2006 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineYellowtail From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 6312 posts, RR: 2
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 3983 times:

However a CO RJ to IAH could yield better results...


When in doubt, hold on to your altitude. No-one has ever collided with the sky.
User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1474 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 3922 times:

I believe AeroCalifornia flew this route for many years. Does anyone know how their loads were. Of course, their route system was similar to WN's in that one plane city hopped.

User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 951 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 3791 times:
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I suspect that TIJ routes that might work would be to PHX, OAK and maybe IAH.

User currently offlineFllcontinental From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 344 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 3694 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
I think they were at a serious disadvantage with AA just down I-95 at MIA and Spirit there at FLL. For DL, FLL is probably a better destination than origin from the U.S./Canada since Port Everglades is such an important cruise-ship station for all the big lines. Any D.R. service is best done from JFK and ATL. Perhaps seasonally from CVG or the other hubs to the resorts (PUJ, POP etc...).

not just that but now AA is flying FLL to SDQ to try to crush NK


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5559 posts, RR: 12
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 3569 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 12):
Last year, I started a thread asking why there was no trans-border service out of TIJ. It still amazes me that this doesn't work, given the population of the greater TIJ area down to Ensenada etc, and the difficulty in crossing the border by land.

This is just another piece of evidence that it doesn't work. It's an interesting relationship between Tijuana and San Diego, speaking here in civil aviation terms. For the many Mexican residents travelling in the US, SAN has pretty decent service (certainly to most of the US hubs) and there's always LAX. Apparently it is easier to cross the border into the US then continue to any US destination as a domestic/local passenger -- no airport customs or immigration to deal with.

Reciprocally, Lindbergh Field doesn't seem to be able to support much of any Mexico service. (We currently have 15 weekly flights on 3 cx to SJD, 1 flight per week to PVR, and 1 weekly flight to CUN -- and that apparently disappears for good in the fall.) As there is decent service to a lot of Mexico (and improving as time goes on) from Rodriguez Airport, many Mexico-bound US travellers either cross the border and fly (again as domestic pax) within Mexico (without airport customs) or go to LAX.

You have 2 large cities, in 2 separate countries, each with its own airport serving its own country and separated by less than 20 miles. I guess in the big picture, it's somewhat logical that neither city/airport has much service to the other country's cities. Maybe that's just the way it's going to stay, at least for a while.

bb


User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 3418 times:

I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December. I figure time will tell if this is accurate. I understand the loads were pretty low on the route (30-40). Perhaps they expect the holiday season would be a better time of year to start this route.

User currently offlineVSMike From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 318 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3395 times:

Dang! This is a shame. I was just getting used to flying the TIJ route. I do occasional work in TIJ, and have learned to prefer flying directly there from MCO (via LAX), versus the cross-boarder drive (or walk) from SAN. Plus, my SkyMiles didn't disagree, either. At ~20 mins flight time, granted, it was a bit of a joke I suppose... too good to last. Obviously there isn't a real market here. The highest load I ever saw on the E145 was 7. Lowest, 2. I love the private plane feel, but I guess that doesn't pay the bills. It was an interesting contast to see an American flag carrier in TIJ, however, I cannot recall if/when another American airline flew there (anyone?). I haven't seen a US airline at TIJ for at least the past 3 years I've been heading down there. Their ground handlers, SEAT, were very, very friendly and accommodating.

Oh well, looks like I'll be on one of the last operations out of TIJ on 21st of July.
Good for DL. Bad for me.

VSM



Skyteam. Caring More About Me.
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 3345 times:

Quoting MCOAviationFan (Reply 18):
I was told by a source within Delta marketing, that the FLL-SDQ will end on Sep 5 and resume sometime in December.

Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.



DCA
User currently offlineATLBoiler From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 13 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3247 times:

Look for something regarding another one of the LAX-Mexico markets in the near future that's not performing well. Also look for some news regarding a couple of other Caribbean destinations recently opened.  Smile

User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 440 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 3177 times:

Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 20):
Well ther better have a better departure time from FLL if the want to really succeed at this route. The 730am departure gave them 0 chance to connect any passengers.

Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for. It's a route they thought they could fly strictly on O/D. The connecting pax would all still be sent through ATL.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33195 posts, RR: 71
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3064 times:

Not sure if this was mentioned, but Hermosillio is also on the chopping block. Supposed to end in September, last I heard.

FLL-SDQ's times were perfect. The flight was meant for O&D, not connecting traffic.



a.
User currently offlineAkizidy214 From Jamaica, joined Sep 2006, 408 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 3052 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Reply 22):
Connecting pax was not what the route was designed for.



Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 23):
FLL-SDQ's times were perfect. The flight was meant for O&D, not connecting traffic.

Well they need to rethink that because there is not enough o/d traffic for them to survive if this route comes back.



DCA
25 DesertAir : A number of years ago there was a flight between OAK and TIJ a few times a week on Azteca (?). The flight then continued onto Guadalajara or some oth
26 MAH4546 : Um, no. There is plenty of O&D traffic. MIA/FLL is Santo Domingo's large O&D market. Largest. Larger than even NYC. Larger than any other city. Delta
27 Oakjam : I flew on a Lineas Aereas Aztecas (ZE) from OAK to TIJ and then continuing to GDL last year on Aug 31. The flight had 58 people 10 going to TIJ and 48
28 HVNandrew : Could DL move the SDQ flight over to MCO? They already have a MCO-MEX flight (though I don't know how much longer that will be around...), plus inter-
29 Akizidy214 : Umm, obviously not. If there was enough traffic the route wouldn't have gotten canned. AA doesn't even fly the route no stop yet. DL could pull route
30 NA747 : DL's ATL-BQN and ATL-PSE also failed. Then again, they didn't offer daily service to either one (PSE was a 2x week affair). Not very convenient IMO. B
31 JetJeanes : AeroCalifornia must not have done to well they were on our cash list as they were broke or in bankruptcy. They had some of the dirtest planes ive ever
32 Yellowtail : When you say Caribbean......are you meaning from LAX?...if so, I suspect there is some good news about BZE!
33 MAH4546 : Just because Delta was not succesful does not mean that the O&D traffic isn't there. It is. Delta simply wasn't able to capture it. Considering how p
34 Marcus : What kind of traffic is this?
35 DAL767400ER : Origin&Destination traffic, passengers that begin or end their routing in FLL, in contrast to a connecting passenger that is coming in from ATL to fl
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