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Eads +Summit 7/16 Sarkozy-Merkel-Daimler-Lagardere  
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3965 times:

This French President -German Chancellor Summit has as main issue the EADS Situation, Daimler and Lagardere are invited. Another issue to be discussed by the official will be the autonomous European Central Bank (ECB) monetary policy, not addressed within this post
In the past weeks, a flood of rumors, possible solutions and posturing hit the news, complemented by continuous denials.
The French Senate also made recommendations

I think it is needless to post much of above here, today I will refer only to four (4) articles, which allow a more or less reliable assessment of the present situation, which can be summarized as follows:

1)
The solutions proposed, if confirmed and the personnel issues agreed, would solve the Dual management problem, *
2)
Not so the permanence of the French and German veto rights, where at the moment the disagreement is still persisting but hopefully will be solved at the summit not only apparently, but really

The veto rights are presently anchored in the Board statutes, where each group has assigned the control of 5 members and to approval any meaningful issue,
3)
It is not sure if the funding issues will be addressed. Even if the rumors are contradictory, there is a tendency not to go the way of a capital increase, at least not a substantial one, but through German and French state guaranteed loans. How to achieve that without infringement of the WTO rules is still not disclosed.

The four articles are:

A)
Theme: Assessment by the prestigious Newspaper LE MONDE, Paris (only in French, highlights I will translate best I can and comment)
______________________________________________________________________________________
[url] http://www.lemonde.fr/web/article/0,1-0,36-935223,0.html[/
Difficiles transactions pour former une direction unique chez EADS (difficult tasks tobe performed to be able to achieve a sole leadership at EADS)
______________________________________________________________________________________

"If the streamlining of the structure is agreed, the appointment of the responsible is still open. The two-headed organization with 2 co-chairmen of the board and 2 co-CEOs shall be substituted by a sole Chairman and a sole CEO, which will also have authority over the subsidiaries, the main one being AIRBUS."
------------------------
"The draft also address the nationalities issue within the organization scheme, the French having requested that one of them will
manage AIRBUS
-----------------------
"One of the scenarios proposed would be appoint Arnaud Lagardere as Chairman of EADS"
-----------------------
"Thomas Enders, until now co-CEO, will be appointed CEO, whilst Louis Gallois, the other co-CEO, would remain only as CEO of the subsidiary Airbus".
----------------------
"Within such scenario, it seems impossible that M. Gallois could stay if subordinated to M. Enders".
---------------------
"As since one year both leaders worked together on the same level ...."
---------------------
"Therefore it is difficult to imagine a hierarchical dependence between both men, especially because their relations within the last months became tense: Nevertheless, Sarkozy would like to maintain Gallois at Airbus"


Comments:
A1) As visible in other articles, above scenario was proposed by the German and agreed by Lagardere. Nevertheless the French Government is seemingly not agreeing.
A2) The Chairman, by the bylaws of EADS, has no executive power
A3) From the German side, both Daimler and Merkel, it is repeatedly stated that the Shareholder pact within the Board, including a veto right for both France and Germany, as well as equal "influence" by the two nationalities, will not be modified, an very disrupting issue if it can not be solved during the summit.

B)
Theme: Germany's insistence, against Sarkozy's proposals, to maintain the equal influence "shareholder Pact"
__________________________________________________________________________________
{url] http://investing.reuters.co.uk/news/...AT001820_RTRIDST_0_EADS-MERKEL.XML [/url]
Franco-German balance must remain at EADS-Merkel
__________________________________________________________________________________
C)
Theme: Denial of agreement reached until now and comment about probability it will happen during the summit
__________________________________________________________________________________
money/2007/07/14/cneads114.xmlhttp:/...ml=/money/2007/07/14/cneads114.xml
EADS reform plan looks out of reach
__________________________________________________________________________________
Comment;
C1) This article mention the open problems, complementing what is said in A.)

D) Union and Labor position regarding the Power 8 plan
__________________________________________________________________________________
http://news.google.com/news?q=eads&s...sult&resnum=4&ct=more-results&cd=2
[b]Some of the sub-articles covering this issues, by far not all of these
__________________________________________________________________________________
As stated by union leaders in Germany, their opposition hardened as consequence of the perceived positive outlook during the Paris show.
Parallely, the Airbus Worker council in Germany stated that they would not oppose the sale of plants, if Airbus commits to order the components they manufacture there and not outsource these to other suppliers, which obviously would restrict the freedom of choose subcontractors.

Situation by July 15, one day before summit

aminobwana

[Edited 2007-07-15 06:04:07]

117 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineNAV20 From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 9909 posts, RR: 36
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 3928 times:

My predictions:-

1. Ultimate two-government control (i.e. deadlock) to continue.

2. More 'musical chairs' in the Boardroom (probably Enders becoming sole CEO 'balanced' by Lagardere becoming sole Chairman).

3. For likely net effect of Point 2, see Point 1 above!  Smile



"Once you have flown, you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards.." - Leonardo da Vinci
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3818 times:

Quoting NAV20 (Reply 1):
My predictions:-

1. Ultimate two-government control (i.e. deadlock) to continue.
2. More 'musical chairs' in the Boardroom (probably Enders becoming sole CEO 'balanced' by Lagardere becoming sole Chairman).

Again, Arnaud Lagardere can at least theoretically not balance the CEO, as he has no individual executive powers, and he cannot expect that the board support him in case of a Chairman/CEO conflict, given the German Veto power.

An equivalent situation would arise if the German EADS CEO gives instructions to the French Airbus CEO, the latter appeals to the board and the German veto any support to him.

In short: this could be even worse as the present situation

Of course, the solution of such is very easy. Do, what Sarkozy said (but of course did not support by his actions until now): Forget nationalities when appointing the leaders !!

Hopefully, when the situation becomes to tight tomorrow in Toulouse, both parties see the light and decide to:

1)
appoint 1st class international, from private companies coming CEO's with wideranging powers,(neither French nor German) for EADS and Airbus

2)
Modify the Board with an equal No. of German and French members, plus one Spanish and several independent ones appointed consentually (not by one party only as now!!) , with qualified majorities requirement restricted to issues which are customary in big business but not equivalent to allow the main shareholderrs to veto any resolution !!

3)
To induce the French to accept above, if necessary allow M. Lagardere to become Chairman, which looks very good but which a strongly empowered CEO and a independently minded Board is mainly formal. As far I am able to read, the relation between Arnaud and Daimler is not bad and therefore he would be acceptable to the German.

regards

aminobwana


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 3802 times:

In a lengthy interview with the German Economics-magazin "Handelsblatt" Angela Merkel today clearly indicated her opposition to any future re-enforments of politics in EADS.
She said EADS is a commercial company that should produce excellent aircraft and earn money.Politicians should the f... stay out of the operations.She did not endorse the way Sarkozy tries to re-model the issue and the outcome of the meeting is anything from clear.
This un-pleasant game has been lasting for much to long and someone should say-that's it-we run the company based on purely commercial aspects.While both -Sarkozy and Merkel see the issues,the proposed solutions seem inconceivable for both.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 weeks 13 hours ago) and read 3745 times:

The Article below in English, by REUTERS, contains substantially the same issues as the Article of The Monde in French (see thread starter). It is more complete and state some additional aspects

For you convenience, I include it here

http://in.today.reuters.com/news/new...NOOTR_RTRMDNC_0_India-284850-1.xml
France hopes to get EADS deal, Germany not hurried
Sun Jul 15, 2007 8:16 PM IST

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 3):
While both -Sarkozy and Merkel see the issues,the proposed solutions seem inconceivable for both.

I agree that as long they do not (or not want to) realize the catastrophical effects of not agreeing generally, and more so the effect that a failure of a meeting of State/Government heads , which normally is only performed to perfect a alreadu drafted Agreement, will have on airlines, financial community, bourse, etc, there will not be such agreement.

But as I cannot immagine they do not realize such, including the polical consequences, it could be that in the last moment they will stop the posturing and agree on something.

Hopefully on something which will really help the company, as Band Aids which would only defer such immediate consequences for a short while would only make a later solution more problematic to achieve

regards

Aminobwana


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 weeks 12 hours ago) and read 3712 times:

Unexpected development - Merkel seems ready to leave EADS presidency to France (Gallois ) and have Enders run Airbus..

in German only (sorry )

http://www.spiegel.de/wirtschaft/0,1518,494556,00.html



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 weeks 10 hours ago) and read 3686 times:

Following up reply 5 by Beaucaire, see the attached FORBES URL with more or less similar content in English

[url]http://www.forbes.com/markets/feeds/afx/2007/07/15/afx3914999.htmlFollowing [/url]
Germany wants to appoint Enders as Airbus head, Gallois as EADS CEO - report

This this new German proposal seems a 90% reversal of what was perceived as also a German one, now containing:

EADS Chairman: Ruediger Grube, Daimler/Germany, instead Arnaud Lagardere, Lagardere France
EADS CEO------: Louis Gallois, France
AIRBUS + DEFENSE + EUROCOPTER subsidiaries CEO : Thomas Enders/Daimler, Germany

The request to incorporate Defense and Eurocopter is written only in the Geman language article, where the following phrase is also incorporated:
" GALLOIS could therefore concentrate himself totally on his duties with the mother company EADS"
which could eventually by a hidden reference that Enders would have only nominal authority over Gallois (?)

These news are silent regarding the Board integration and the permanence of the shareholder pakt

Previous news from Paris told that Sarkosy would accept Grube as Chairman, but wanted Gallois continue as Airbus CEO.

As I can be seen, there are news from all angles, but all unilateral !!

aminobwana


User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 weeks 3 hours ago) and read 3625 times:

Here is a complete surview of the situation a few hour before the talks in Toulouse begin (5.00 am ET)

Again in German, by the Financial Times Germany. I hope an English translation will be available later.

The most important within: The reason why the original Proposal failed i.e.
Chairman: French
EADS CEO: German
Airbbus CEO: French

was because the French wanted a double vote in case of draw for the Chairman inside the Board, which would assure the French dominance there. Obviously this was unacceptable for the German, who then submitted a new proposal as outlined in
Reply 6. i.e:

Chairman: German, simple vote in the Board
EADS CEO: French
AIRBUS+EUROCOPTER+DEFENSE subsidiaries: German, largely automomous

aminobwana


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 3563 times:

Just off the press- Enders will become the new boss of Airbus
Gallois head of EADS
Gruber heads board of EADS..
at least some progress !

[Edited 2007-07-16 11:24:17]


Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRigo From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3496 times:

Thanks Aminobwana for this detailed post. So it seems that it's not headed toward the solution rumored last week (that Enders would become sole CEO of EADS, Gallois of Airbus).

There is one issue that is too easily forgotten, though: politicians are so eager to keep interfering in EADS and Airbus because they created it at the first place. The original Airbus consortium was a politically motivated corporate welfare programme, with the stated goal to save the European aviation industry from collapsing. It has actually worked, too: for decades it has converted taxpayer's money into jobs and further tax revenue.

It's pretty clear to the average observer that this structure made its time and is not sustainable any longer, but it may not be so easily understood by the politicians. Especially in the EU, which is plagued by high unemployment and is built on an economic culture of dirigism and general distrust against unregulated markets.

Airbus also remains the EU's greatest pride. It's an ego-booster, a symbol of what Europeans can achieve by working together. So it's understandable that political, nationalistic and personal considerations tend to take precedence over pragmatic business decisions. Any solution that comes out will be a matter of difficult compromises.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to see what happens. Go Airbus!

Rigo

[Edited 2007-07-16 12:14:38]

User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7402 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3474 times:

Just officially announced :

EADS CEO = Louis Gallois

Airbus CEO : Thomas Enders


User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3466 times:

Quoting Rigo (Reply 9):
Especially in the EU, which is plagued by high unemployment

Not a problem in all EU-countries  Wink But you do have some good points.

Cheers

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlineRigo From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3441 times:

Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 11):
Quoting Rigo (Reply 9):
Especially in the EU, which is plagued by high unemployment

Not a problem in all EU-countries Wink But you do have some good points.

Sorry if I offended you - I readily admit not having complete data on all the EU members  Wink
I believe though that the original statement applies to the major Airbus stakeholders except the UK, i.e. Germany, France and Spain. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.


User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2872 posts, RR: 3
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3428 times:

Quoting Maersk737 (Reply 11):
Not a problem in all EU-countries

Eurostat says:

Quote:
Euro area (EA13) seasonally-adjusted unemployment stood at 7.0% in May 2007, compared with 7.1% in April. It was 7.9% in May 2006. The EU27 unemployment rate was also 7.0% in May 2007, compared with 7.1% in April. It was 8.0% in May 2006.

In May 2007, the lowest rates were registered in the Netherlands (3.2%), Denmark (3.3%), Ireland (4.1%) and Cyprus (4.2%). Unemployment rates were highest in Slovakia (10.8%) and Poland (10.5%). These figures come from Eurostat, the Statistical Office of the European Communities.

Twenty-two Member States recorded a fall in their unemployment rate over a year, four an increase while the unemployment rate was stable in Romania. The largest relative falls were observed in Poland (14.2% to 10.5%), Denmark (4.2% to 3.3%) and Bulgaria (9.2% to 7.2%). The highest relative increases were registered in Hungary (7.3% to 7.7%) and Luxembourg (4.6% to 4.8%).

The unemployment rate for males fell from 6.8% to 5.9% between May 2006 and May 2007 in the euro area and from 7.3% to 6.2% in the EU27. The female unemployment rate declined from 9.3% to 8.4% in the euro area and from 8.9% to 8.0% in the EU27.

In May 2007, the unemployment rate for under-25s was 15.3% in the euro area and 15.9% in the EU27. In May 2006 it was 16.6% and 17.5% respectively. The lowest rates for under-25s were observed in the Netherlands (5.7%), Denmark (6.4%) and Ireland (7.7%); the highest in Greece (24.6% in the first quarter 2007), Poland (22.1%), France and Romania (both 21.9%).

Eurostat estimates that 16.4 million men and women in the EU27, of which 10.4 million were in the euro area, were unemployed in May 2007. In May 2006, 18.6 million men and women in the EU27, of which 11.8 million were in the euro area, were unemployed.

In May 2007, the US unemployment rate was 4.5% and the Japanese rate was 3.8%.



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 3422 times:

EADS names Gallois as sole chief, Enders Airbus head.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...601087&sid=asftgTpVZD74&refer=home

Sorry didn't see reply 10 before I posted  ashamed 

Cheers

Peter

[Edited 2007-07-16 12:51:01]


I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2872 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting Rigo (Reply 12):
I believe though that the original statement applies to the major Airbus stakeholders except the UK, i.e. Germany, France and Spain. Please somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

From the above statement (May 2007 figures):
Germany 6.6%
France 8.7%
UK 5.4%
Spain 8.2%

Euro Area: 7.0%
EU total: 7.0%

Lowest: Netherlands 3.2%
Highest: Slovakia 10.8%



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1542 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

The French won!

Ruscoe


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3388 times:

Quoting BuyantUkhaa (Reply 13):

Given the improving employment numbers posted, I would think that the governments will be wiling to back off and let EADS implement 'Power 8' as they see fit?

What will be the role of the French government going forward? Will they divest their stake?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 16):
The French won!

Ruscoe

That is a relatively dumb remark,in that EADS and Airbus did win- the streamlined management structures have been overdue since the very beginning of Airbus.
Although being German by birth,I could not care less if the head of EADS is French,British or Slovakian,as long as he gets the job done.Enders will have the toughest job,since he has to get the cash rolling and the technology implemented, that the customers want to see.
I'm quite satisfied with the outcome and hope that the focus now will turn onto the A350 and A380 deliveries.



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineRuscoe From Australia, joined Aug 1999, 1542 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3373 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 16):
The French won!

I would like to add; "this round".

Can't see this working, because the Board is still evenly divided.

Ruscoe


User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3360 times:

http://www.eads.com/1024/de/pressdb/...sdb/EADS/20070716_eads_summit.html

the board will be changed...



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineMaersk737 From Denmark, joined Feb 2004, 678 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3347 times:

It looks as if EADS is doing right things at the moment  Smile

Cheers

Peter



I'm not proud to be a Viking, just thankfull
User currently offlineBeaucaire From Syria, joined Sep 2003, 5252 posts, RR: 25
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3339 times:

Quoting Ruscoe (Reply 16):
The French won!

Ruscoe

If you ask Jean Luc Lagardère he will most definitely disagree with that statement,since he's ousted..



Please respect animals - don't eat them...
User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2872 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3302 times:

Quoting Beaucaire (Reply 20):
http://www.eads.com/1024/de/pressdb/...sdb/EADS/20070716_eads_summit.html

the board will be changed...

The same but in English:

http://www.eads.com/1024/en/pressdb/...sdb/EADS/20070716_eads_summit.html

Rüdiger Grube to be sole Chairman of the Board of Directors
Louis Gallois to be sole CEO of EADS
Thomas Enders to be CEO of Airbus
Fabrice Brégier to be COO of Airbus
Number of independent members on the Board of Directors to be increased



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineRigo From Australia, joined Sep 2005, 91 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 3265 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 17):

Given the improving employment numbers posted, I would think that the governments will be wiling to back off and let EADS implement 'Power 8' as they see fit?

What will be the role of the French government going forward? Will they divest their stake?

Well that's the whole point, actually. From an American point of view, fighting unemployment = getting out of the way of free business. From an European point of view (especially French), fighting unemployment = reigning in. That's why implementing Power8 is most certainly going to be met with political resistance.

Please, I absolutely do not wish this to be interpreted as an US vs EU argument... actually I believe that both policies can be valid in their respective contexts. As far as Airbus is concerned, though, I think that political interference is unlikely to end anytime soon for these reasons. Whether it's good or bad (and for whom) is an entirely different matter...

Regards,
Rigo


25 Post contains images Maersk737 : We know more after the summit Political interest is ok. Political interference is not that good Cheers Peter
26 PanHAM : yes, and we have to look at all the ways and means the French are using to interfere. They have tried already to undermine the stability of the Euro
27 Stitch : So I take it these four open positions will be elected by the shareholders? If so, I expect the Russians will now increase their stake to secure two
28 Post contains images Rigo :
29 Aminobwana : Summit results: Chairman: -------Ruediger Grube / Daimler/Germany EADS CEO:-----Louis Gallois/France Airbus CEO-----Thomas Enders and Board Restructur
30 Post contains images NAV20 : The key question is what constitutes 'major strategic or investment decisions.' That could include everything up to and including the strength of the
31 N328KF : Let's be clear here...instead of "American," you should specify "Anglosphere" or some analogous term. Similar philosophies are certainly in play in t
32 Aminobwana : That precisely my point, why it is so important. Differently as now, where the veto right is not expressly stated, but implicit in the 7 votes of 11
33 Wolbo : Despite the mind-numbingly predictable and thus boring posts from the 'usual suspects', who indeed prove that no new ideas will ever come from them, i
34 707lvr : The wire services are reporting President Sarkozy as having said, "It is a great day for the Franco-German axis." Surely not. Does anyone have what he
35 Aminobwana : Iassume you were thinking of the Berlin-Rome-Tokyo axis !! but he said " l'entente ", meaning the same as in English, i.e. alliance. aminobwana
36 Par13del : Just read the release on CNN.COM and I must admit that I probably confused myself. I thought that this whole re-org was about the companies becoming m
37 Poitin : Let's see: 1). All the decisions, what there may have been, made by Gallois are now going to be reviewed by Enders so nothing has been decided in real
38 Post contains links Aminobwana : There is a lot of important info in the French press, I am taking it from LE MONDE, in French: The most important 1) Both the appointments of Chairman
39 Aminobwana : This, at least, even it could induce delays between other to the A350, is middle term an advantage. He is not bound by: - statement that "the A350 ma
40 WAH64D : None of the developed Western European countries operate in the way you suggest. UK, France, Netherlands, Belgium, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Denmark,
41 N328KF : To be fair, I think that if Enders can get rid of the political pressure, his job will be the more entertaining of the bunch. I'm sure they didn't cu
42 Aminobwana : I think, even there are differences between European country and country, there is no doubt that the social aspect is very different compared with th
43 Ikramerica : Looks to be a dramatic theatrical process, but ultimately, it's the same Airbus that made all the mistakes of the last few years. It's still a jobs p
44 Maersk737 : And the 5 most qualified people are? And you do think they have a lot to say at the moment? Or will have in the future? Cheers Peter
45 Aminobwana : Only to be clear: I did not say that it is bad that only 1 in 5 is French !!! I only explained why the French are not happy! aminobwana
46 Olle : It is very simple just saying that the European model is worse for companies then the model in USA. But there si examples where it is different. One o
47 Wsp : You seem confused. Either they impose all sorts of measures coupled to their subsidies or they do not intervene, which is it?
48 Aminobwana : I an certainly not confused. The government, if asked for a loan or guarantee, does simply what any bank does, They ask for a clear and comprehensive
49 Ruscoe : Whatever might have been said, I think we are just kidding ourselves if we think that the French got the worst end of the deal here. The most powerfu
50 Rigo : Please re-read my post. Nowhere did I wrote that Europe was not a market economy. Nor did I suggest this remark as being somehow derogatory, because
51 WAH64D : The UK has a population of 60M, the entire EU has a much bigger population than the US. Maybe 30 years ago. In the current European industry climate,
52 Post contains images Stitch : Tell that to Lee Iaccoca and Chrysler Corporation in the 1980s... In general, this is true, but as the airlines have shown, they can hang around for
53 Dank : Almost 500 million, compared to the 300 million in the US. While the US doesn't necessarily come in to bail companies out (but Chrysler is a sterling
54 Post contains images WAH64D : I have re-read your post and appreciate what you are saying. My apologies if my reply seemed a bit "strong". The "interventionist" policies of the go
55 Wsp : So your conclusion is, that the US government pours money into these companies and in exchange controls their corporate strategy while leaving the da
56 Rigo : Yes, you are absolutely right. I did not intend to over-generalise, my apologies if my posts left you with that impression. The point is that precise
57 Azhobo : If a train wreck is progress. And then EADS lost. LOL, not a chance in H. Thank you, and that is the attitude EADS needed to restructure too. Banning
58 Aminobwana : I am not sure who got the worst end, fact is that the French are saying they did. It is useless to discuss this. Another aspect is much more importan
59 Post contains links Poitin : While you list the major issues, I really meant ALL issues. And there well may be some changes in the management team. I can't say, but from the numb
60 Post contains images Aminobwana : Sometimes, the simplest explanation is the right one. I really believe that Gallois wanted not to be demoted to Airbus alone in a position of (even s
61 Wsp : The UK differs from the Eurozone in the control over their own currency. That's it. How does the UK's relation to the EU differ from that of other me
62 Post contains images Rigo : Besides the currency (and that's a huge point, since it de-facto exempts the UK from the Maastricht criteria and from any reliance on the ECB), there
63 Post contains links NAV20 : If this article is kosher it seems quite obvious that the two-pronged political veto powers will continue:- "Germany has proposed creating "golden sha
64 Glacote : You know this is what people like to say but not backed up with facts, right? Are you saying it is good? This is (I believe) true - and a very sharp
65 Jacobin777 : ...IIRC, wasn't it recently mentioned in the media that Gallois wanted to run Airbus?
66 Wsp : Your claim was that for Eurozone members contrary to the UK "the EC has de-facto ultimate decision power over economy, trade, budget and market regula
67 Post contains images NAV20 : The most 'unworkable' feature of the EU is that most European countries now have no control over the value of their currencies, with both the value o
68 Aminobwana : As the article is from the FT and by their correspondents in Berlin and Toulouse it should be "kosher" !! If I read this article, it seems that factu
69 NAV20 : Don't know if you ever saw a marvellous British TV 'black comedy' called '"Yes, Minister," about the relationship between a Minister and his Permanen
70 Wsp : What you mean is that the government doesn't have control over the currency. A situation that Germany has enjoyed for decades without too much of a p
71 Post contains images WAH64D : In a very limited fashion. We still have our own intra-EU border controls, our own currency and the EU constitution has been booted out at every vote
72 Post contains links Lumberton : Downbeat assessment from a UK source: Airbus shake-up 'fails to get rid of politics'
73 NAV20 : This is possibly the most important part of the column you quote, Lumberton:- "Chancellor Merkel appears to have shot down French proposals for a capi
74 Post contains links Lumberton : Now there's talk of a "golden share" for EADS, held by the governments. http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKBAT00183120070717?rpc=44 So, even i
75 Stitch : Well no decision can be made without at least the backing of Germany or France, since each holds three votes and a minimum of seven is needed to make
76 Aminobwana : Good question, Lumberton ?? and why a government need a golden share to look after the COMPANY's interest ?? In case of MILITARY business with foreig
77 Poitin : It works well in the US, and has for years. But then again, the US currency is controlled by the Federal Reserve bank and not the politicians. Unfort
78 Lumberton : WRT the "golden share", can one conclude that the governments of Germany and France simply have no intention of relinquishing their influence on EADS?
79 Maersk737 : Yes, and what is the difference to the EU? Cheers Peter
80 Aminobwana : You are right in the sense that the ECB does the same in the EU But then, the US is a 240 year old country with a sole economy and surely the governo
81 Post contains images Maersk737 : The same goes for the US Cheers Peter
82 Stitch : Well some people are of the opinion that the companies themselves vote as the French and German governments tell them to, so what would be the differ
83 Post contains images Aminobwana : Are you suggesting the US could abandon the Dollar ?? Well, up to a certain limit. If it would be against the interest of Daimler, they surly would n
84 Post contains images Maersk737 : Why not? These days the dollar is almost as cheap as the former Italian Lira Cheers Peter
85 Ikramerica : You can't understand it until you've lived away from it. I can't personally say how the EU social safety net works because I have not lived there. I
86 Post contains images Lumberton : I guess the Japanese should dump the yen as well? It also has hit record lows against the euro. And that Chinese currency, tsk tsk? Back OT, I must a
87 Post contains images Maersk737 : Well, Maybe they will wait until their "golden shares" are worth some euros Cheers Peter
88 BuyantUkhaa : So where would you fit in, let's say, The Netherlands (example: Fokker, 10 years ago)?
89 WAH64D : Could you please quantify exactly what it is you mean by the "social safety net of the EU" ? Is this another oh-so common a.net generalisation? I can
90 Aminobwana : I do not know in the last years, but we had AEG-Telefunken (2 times), Philip Hotzman and several other I do not rememebr I wonder that you discus thi
91 Post contains images WAH64D : Firstly its not exclusive to England. The United Kingdom consists of Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. The NHS is paid for by a deductio
92 Poitin : Funny that Maersk forgot completely about my point of the SWISS FRANC being about the same now relative to the USD as ten years ago.. Now my good fri
93 Aminobwana : I realize that now!! I see this is the same problem as in Canada (called OHIP) copied from the British, but it is nearly gratis! But lets clarify thi
94 Lumberton : Good idea. I was wondering where this was all headed! Can someone venture an opinion WRT the positive effect, short term that these management change
95 WAH64D : In this respect I think the US system and the system most of Europe uses (private medical insurance) is vastly superior. Even if an employed British
96 Post contains images Flysherwood : Yes, and those of us in the export business here in the USA are smiling all the way to the bank!
97 Post contains links Wsp : Not taking part in Schengen means the UK has no access to crime prevention information that is collected in the Schengen Information System. Not exac
98 Post contains images Wsp : I wonder what happens to that big grin when you stop at the gas station on your way back home.
99 Aminobwana : If you read the posts on this thread, you will get an idea of the general situation. Basically, as the summit participants had no basic agreement a f
100 WAH64D : Leahy like him or not is one of the best things to happen to Airbus in the last 20 years, he's not going anywhere anytime soon.
101 Post contains links Aminobwana : As an example of the convoluted reaction to the announdement of the EADS changes, see URL from the LONDON TIMES http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to..
102 WAH64D : For the sake of clarity and fair coverage, here is the entire article. It is in the public domain and can be posted freely with the source acknowledge
103 Post contains images Flysherwood : Still much cheaper than in Europe. And I still am smiling!
104 Lumberton : Thank you for posting this. So the "big news" about restructuring is just what some posters have noted previously, a game of "musical chairs", with n
105 Post contains links Aminobwana : Unfortunately, this is so See also the compressed reaction of the main European Newspapers http://europe.courrierinternational....publication=17/07/2
106 Post contains links Lumberton : Interesting interview with Mr. Enders posted by Reuters today. This can't be all that comforting to those who are opposed to the full implementation o
107 Post contains links Aminobwana : Pls. refer to the really complete and interesting interview with the new sole Chairman of EADS, Ruediger GRUBE http://www.flightglobal.com/articles...
108 WAH64D : I'm very excited by this. The existing team was good enough to make Airbus the biggest commercial aircraft manufacturer in the world. If they can imp
109 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..its already at $1.38 dollars/Euro and with the USofA Federal Reserve not hiking interest rates coupled with the fact The United Kingdom (as well as
110 Kangar : It's an interesting point you make Ikra, but quite apart from the differing practicalities of bankruptcy legislation in the EU/US, having lived in th
111 Post contains images Flysherwood : That is the biggest joke I have ever come accross. Some of the existing team has managed to piss away that lead in a very short time! Can you say 787
112 WAH64D : IIRC you nearly bought yourself a small a.net holiday with comments not far from this the other day. Do carry on. The 787 is one outstanding aircraft
113 Jacobin777 : ..do you think Boeing is ignorant enough to do that?
114 Post contains images Flysherwood : I guess time will tell. You may want to keep yourself from wagering too much on that prediction!
115 Post contains images Rheinbote : The next thing likely to change is the first flight date of the A400M
116 WAH64D : If you'd asked me that a year ago I'd have said "no way". Now I'm not so sure. Boeing are just not behaving like Boeing recently.
117 Post contains links Aminobwana : The following URL shows that certain political and labor circles see the new restructured management as German dominated, which originates contraversy
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