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Delta To Portugal?  
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 17 hours ago) and read 5697 times:

I noticed that Delta flew to LIS up until the early to mid-1990s (a route inherited from PanAm). Why did they end service there? Today, Delta doesn't serve LIS nor OPO. With their continuing international expansion in mind, does anyone else see Delta returning to Portugal in the near future (from JFK or ATL), or will they just let TAP, CO, and US cover the US-LIS/OPO market?


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38 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8902 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5665 times:

JFK-LIS has been a pretty consistent rumor for a 757 route. Whether it comes to fruition or not remains to be seen.

User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5666 times:

I don't know how big the Portugal market is, I'd make the assumption that US and CO have it covered a long with TAP (Obviously). But I do know the Lisbon flights for US are usually pretty full, so who knows if another airline could come in.

I do think a 767 is overkill on the route, though. 757 is perfect.



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineDoug_Or From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3408 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5589 times:

Quoting Whappeh (Reply 2):
I don't know how big the Portugal market is, I'd make the assumption that US and CO have it covered a long with TAP (Obviously). But I do know the Lisbon flights for US are usually pretty full, so who knows if another airline could come in.

To be fair, most flights to Europe are pretty full.

Most of the NYC Portugese population lives in Newark, so TAP and CO have an advantage for O&D, and JFK is probably even worse for connections than JFK (personal opinion at least). I wonder what the chances of an ATL flight would be? Most of their international expansion thus far has been into markets without competition.



When in doubt, one B pump off
User currently offlineEvan767 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 2957 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5565 times:

I would put $20 down that Delta will announce this route in the fall from JFK-LIS with the 752. Starting next summer. May 31 to be exact.  Silly


The proper term is "on final" not "on finals" bud...
User currently offlineB4REAL From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 2644 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5533 times:

Yeah, JFK-LIS on a '75 would be dreamy and really the only opportunity from JFK to Europe that they don't already serve. Other destinations would be reinstating or starting ARN/OSL sound good as well.


B4REAL, spelled like it sounds
User currently offlineAbrelosojos From Venezuela, joined May 2005, 5100 posts, RR: 55
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 5501 times:

DL is looking at both JFK-LIS and JFK-OPO and I have a strong belief something is going to be announced soon.

-A.



Live, and let live.
User currently offlineWhappeh From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 1563 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 5443 times:

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 3):
To be fair, most flights to Europe are pretty full.

Aye, but I recall hearing that the first year it did well beyond what was expected (so much so it went Daily).



-Travel now, journey infinitely.
User currently offlineTOLtommy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 3295 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 5347 times:

When DL ended service on DL metal (okay former PA metal), they entered into a codeshare agreement with TP. It only lasted a few years before TP switched dance partners.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5222 times:

It would also be nice if DL could do BOS-LIS, since this would potentially be a high O&D route. But I think the issues with Mass-Port will likely put the kibosh on anything like that. Never the less, JFK-LIS looks very realistic, as well as JFK-ARN & JFK-OSO. How well will a U.S. flag carrier like DL do in the NYC-JFK to/from Scandinavia market? I know that ATL-CPH has done well for DL, interestingly I think it's a typo, but in the current schedule DL has it listed as a 762.


DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineFlynavy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5200 times:

The 762 is correct. It's not for the 767-200, it's just a sub-fleet within their mix of 767-300ER's. I think the "762" is an ex-Gulf Air bird. I could be wrong. Delta has quite a few second-hand 767s.

User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9449 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 5196 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 9):
It would also be nice if DL could do BOS-LIS, since this would potentially be a high O&D route. But I think the issues with Mass-Port will likely put the kibosh on anything like that. Never the less, JFK-LIS looks very realistic, as well as JFK-ARN & JFK-OSO. How well will a U.S. flag carrier like DL do in the NYC-JFK to/from Scandinavia market? I know that ATL-CPH has done well for DL, interestingly I think it's a typo, but in the current schedule DL has it listed as a 762.

isnt 762 the code for the 767-300ERG(ex gulf Air planes)?



yep.
User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16872 posts, RR: 51
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 5126 times:

DL would do better with BOS-LIS than JFK-LIS, as mentioned New Jersey has the largest Portuguese community in the US, Massachusetts is second.

There's a reason why there are four flights a day between EWR and Portugal (LIS CO 2xs daily, LIS TAP 2xs daily, OPO 3-4 weekly TAP) and none from JFK. The Portuguese are in New Jersey, not Queens.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4971 times:

Quoting B4REAL (Reply 5):
really the only opportunity from JFK to Europe that they don't already serve.

ARN, WAW, LED to name a few.


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 4962 times:

ATL-LIS/OPO would not be such a bad idea, you could catch a lot of the OD market connecting from Latin America and south Florida. I am just guessing, but a large portion of the Venezuelans in MIA are Portuguese descendants and in Latin America you have to go to CCS or GRU to go to Portugal.

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4795 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 14):
ATL-LIS/OPO would not be such a bad idea, you could catch a lot of the OD market connecting from Latin America and south Florida. I am just guessing, but a large portion of the Venezuelans in MIA are Portuguese descendants and in Latin America you have to go to CCS or GRU to go to Portugal.

DL would have to use one of their 763ERs to do ATL-LIS/OPO, and I'm not certain they could get the desired yield on such a flight with said equipment. I'm actually surprised there is no LIS or ORO flights from GIG, or is there?

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
DL would do better with BOS-LIS than JFK-LIS, as mentioned New Jersey has the largest Portuguese community in the US, Massachusetts is second.

 checkmark  Very true, and getting to JFK will be a royal pain in the @$$ for them, but hopefully any connectivity from BOS will help. Just too bad DL must deal with Mass-Port, because I think you would see DL do some Europe flights from there.
Also thanks for the clarification on the 762 code in the DL schedule.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineElagabal From United Kingdom, joined Mar 2005, 201 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 4769 times:

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 15):
I'm actually surprised there is no LIS or ORO flights from GIG, or is there?

Oh my goodness there are. TP has Brazil well-covered from LIS and IIRC OPO also. With regard to potential connections via ATL between Portugal and Venezuela, TP already fly direct to CCS, or at least they started doing so not long ago.


User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4749 times:

Lisbon is one of several former Delta European destinations that we all wish would come back into the system. Lisbon, due to its geographic location, does not lend itself to connections at the SkyTeam hubs in Paris, Amsterdam, or Italy.

Lisbon seems to me to be a predominately leisure/VFR destination, which is perhaps why Delta hasn't yet reinstated service there. I don't know how well they filled up their A310-300's when they flew there; above all, I don't know if there was sufficient premium traffic.

Perhaps with the 757 ETOPS fleet, we might see Lisbon, Stockholm, Warsaw, Hamburg, St. Petersburg, and Oslo come back. Warsaw seems to me to be the most likely of all of them, since no US carriers fly there on their own metal.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 2 hours ago) and read 4730 times:

Quoting Doug_Or (Reply 3):
To be fair, most flights to Europe are pretty full.

And as we all know, that doesn't mean a thing if the yields aren' there...


User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4481 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 17):
Perhaps with the 757 ETOPS fleet, we might see Lisbon, Stockholm, Warsaw, Hamburg, St. Petersburg, and Oslo come back. Warsaw seems to me to be the most likely of all of them, since no US carriers fly there on their own metal.

WAW and LED might be a little to distant for DL's ETOPs 752s from JFK. Perhaps with winglets it could be done.



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11438 posts, RR: 58
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 23 hours ago) and read 4306 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
DL would do better with BOS-LIS than JFK-LIS, as mentioned New Jersey has the largest Portuguese community in the US, Massachusetts is second.

There's a reason why there are four flights a day between EWR and Portugal (LIS CO 2xs daily, LIS TAP 2xs daily, OPO 3-4 weekly TAP) and none from JFK. The Portuguese are in New Jersey, not Queens.

Agree 100%

Quoting SLCUT2777 (Reply 15):
DL would have to use one of their 763ERs to do ATL-LIS/OPO, and I'm not certain they could get the desired yield on such a flight with said equipment. I'm actually surprised there is no LIS or ORO flights from GIG, or is there?

GIG is one of the best served long haul markets from LIS with 12 weekly flights. OPO gets 3x weekly flights to GIG. Yields and loads are always high. In fact TP find out it's gold mine on flights out of LIS and OPO to Brazil

GIG-LIS 12x
GRU-LIS 11x
SSA-LIS, FOR-LIS, REC-LIS 7x
BSB-LIS 5x
NAT-LIS 5x (4x on off-season)
GRU-OPO, GIG-OPO 3x each

Quoting Mats (Reply 17):
Lisbon seems to me to be a predominately leisure/VFR destination, which is perhaps why Delta hasn't yet reinstated service there

There are a strong and growing Business market also in LIS (Banks, Energy, Telecom) which shows why CO runs 2x daily flights to LIS. The main reason IMO is that Portuguese demands EWR as explained by STT757.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 4122 times:

By the way, back to the OP, I was never a fan of the A310, but it sure did look good with that DL livery on it...

User currently offlineSLCUT2777 From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 4079 posts, RR: 11
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3609 times:

Quoting LipeGIG (Reply 20):
GIG is one of the best served long haul markets from LIS with 12 weekly flights. OPO gets 3x weekly flights to GIG. Yields and loads are always high. In fact TP find out it's gold mine on flights out of LIS and OPO to Brazil

While a bit off topic, but speaking of additional Portuguese speaking (no pun intended!  biggrin  ) markets between the U.S. and Latin America, what are the chances of service between the U.S. and BSB? Say MIA-BSB on AA or ATL-BSB on DL? Would a more flexible U.S./Brazil bilateral help in making this possible?



DELTA Air Lines; The Only Way To Fly from Salt Lake City; Let the Western Heritage always be with Delta!
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 3562 times:

Quoting STT757 (Reply 12):
DL would do better with BOS-LIS than JFK-LIS, as mentioned New Jersey has the largest Portuguese community in the US, Massachusetts is second.

Actually DL may better do PVD-LIS (this could be flown with B737-700/800?) instead of BOS-LIS which is definitely better than a JFK-LIS and maybe B757 ATL-LIS 4 x week too. OPO could aslo work with B737 from PVD/BOS.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8551 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3510 times:

How do you guys figure? BOS over JFK?? Come on. LIS is not a niche destination. It is just a pleasant European city where tourists and business people go. I don't see how it should be treated as an ethnic market when it's more of a standard Europe market.

25 STT757 : Lisbon flights will not work year round without substantial support from local Portuguese community.
26 RobertS975 : I have some sad news for you... come September, Delta mainline will no longer serve PVD at all.
27 SlcDeltaRUmd11 : I dont think there is much demand for service from jfk to portugal. The city of Newark and surrounding towns have such a large population of people wh
28 SLCUT2777 : My whole point on this discussion is that BOS would work VERY well for DL, but Mass-Port will prove to be highly uncooperative as far as locating gat
29 WorldTraveler : DL and AF have antitrust immunity and you should not be surprised to see DL and AF make the most of Open Skies; both carriers have a great deal of inc
30 Jetdeltamsy : Your opinion is based on what?
31 RobertS975 : There is a very large Portuguese population in Southeastern MA (Fall River, New Bedford, Taunton)... I am talking about many thousands who do not eve
32 CV990 : Hi! Seeing DL again in Portugal would be wonderfull. We cannot forget that DL got that route from PAN AM and has far has I know they only flew with th
33 Airbazar : This is an outdated fact by about 10 years. It is predominantely leisure but so are many routes. Leisure does not mean not profitable. LIS is a very
34 STT757 : World Aiways has weekly all business class public charters from Houston to LAD.
35 Airbazar : I know that but if you need the flexibility of a daily flight you have very few options, TP being one of them. If you work in the Oil industry and yo
36 LipeGIG : Yes, there are chances of a service BSB-United States in the near future. In fact ANAC is working on this as well as the Government. I think that thi
37 DLBOIFIN : Still hoping/waiting to see Helsinki as DL destination ex-JFK. No other US carriers in the market...come and get it!
38 MaverickM11 : I have no doubt that DL will announce LIS soon, but capacity to LIS is way up (between additions by TP, CO, and US), and the Portuguese economy is the
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