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Ambitious Delta Applies ATL-PEK/ATL-PVG  
User currently offlineJimyvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6787 times:

http://biz.yahoo.com/pz/070716/122974.html

Not 1 but 2. Delta applies for 2 routes to China at the same time - Atlanta - Beijing and Atlanta - Shanghai.

[Edited 2007-07-16 21:10:36]

94 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6787 times:

Do they have the planes/Range to fly this? any new B777 coming in?

User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6722 times:

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
Do they have the planes/Range to fly this? any new B777 coming in?

Both flights could be operated with the current 77E aircraft. Additionally, Delta has 6+ 777-232LRs joining the fleet beginning in February 2008.

 Wink



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 22 hours ago) and read 6714 times:

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
Do they have the planes/Range to fly this? any new B777 coming in?

well they could take a T7 off a route
ATL-FRA has(or it had?) a T7 so they could replace it with a 764

and the get to 77Ls early next year buy could trade slots or something or lease a few a/c

are they both for the 07?(or 08?)

now just need ATL-HKG and LAX-PEK,PVG,HKG,CAN



yep.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4763 posts, RR: 44
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6688 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
well they could take a T7 off a route
ATL-FRA has(or it had?) a T7 so they could replace it with a 764

ATL-FRA is 764/763 mix.

All T7s op Asia/ME/India (NRT/ICN/BOM/TLV/DXB)



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6671 times:

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
Do they have the planes/Range to fly this? any new B777 coming in?

They got 6 777-200LRs on order that the first of which are scheduled for delivery early next year.

The 772s they currently have could do ATL-PEK and ATL-PVG, but the 772LRs would give them a some breathing room range-wise. More than likely, the LRs will be doing mostly runs to Asia and perhaps eventually be put on the ATL-JNB route.


User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 782 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6671 times:

Great news! I hope they get them both this time around!

Anyone know if they will start the petition again for these routes? Really seems like DL should get these this time around, there are no direct SE US routes to China and these two make perfect sense for not only DL but the Southeastern US and East Coast.



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6654 times:

Who else can get routes this time?(only US,HA right?)


yep.
User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6579 times:
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Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 3):
are they both for the 07?(or 08?)

No, presumably one for 2007 and the other for 2009. This is because of the DOT's desire to award the 2007, 2008, and 2009 frequencies all at once. There a total of six roundtrips up for grabs: 1 in 2007; 1 in 2008; 4 in 2009. The one in 2008 is specifically only for CAN (not many takers there maybe except for UA). The ones for 2007 and 2009 are open for all although the DOT has indicated a preference for a new carrier in 2007; there can be another new carrier designation for 2009 as well.

NW has also applied now for DTW-PVG and DTW-PEK:

http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070716/20070716006033.html?.v=1

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 4):
ATL-FRA is 764/763 mix

ATL-FRA has gone all 763s for the summer now...


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12597 posts, RR: 34
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6541 times:

There's a big increase, as Panamair has pointed out, planned in US-China traffic, so it makes sense for airlines to apply for as much as they can handle; as long as DL can show that it has the aircraft to do the job - which it can with the new 777s coming, then good luck to them.

Apart from NW, to which Panamair has referred above, can we guess other applicants for routes? Probably not too hard to guess!

SFO-CAN UA 777?
IAH/EWR-PVG/PEK CO
DFW-PEK-PVG AA
IAD-PVG UA?
PHL-PVG/PEK US - was discussed some time ago, but can't think what they'll operate; A340s?

Exciting times ahead and of course, that's without considering what might happen by way of consolidation.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6515 times:

so DL has ATL-PVG for 07 anychance of of LAX-CAN from DL in 08? and ATL-PEK in 09
Will there more routes after 09? Will DL try LAX-China?

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
ATL-FRA has gone all 763s for the summer now...

really? wow i thought the 764s where doing well in FRA

Quoting Panamair (Reply 8):
No, presumably one for 2007 and the other for 2009. This is because of the DOT's desire to award the 2007, 2008, and 2009 frequencies all at once. There a total of six roundtrips up for grabs: 1 in 2007; 1 in 2008; 4 in 2009. The one in 2008 is specifically only for CAN (not many takers there maybe except for UA). The ones for 2007 and 2009 are open for all although the DOT has indicated a preference for a new carrier in 2007; there can be another new carrier designation for 2009 as well.



yep.
User currently offlineFlighty From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 8772 posts, RR: 3
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6501 times:

This is a travesty. Why not though, I guess. ATL remains a weak location. NW should get both DTW flights before a single ATL flight is granted. DTW covers the Southeast extremely well, plus the all-important Northeast, which DTW covers much better.

Delta has the opportunity to serve JFK but instead they go for politics.

AA should get its ORD flight also.

With 6 available, we might see this:

UA: CAN

AA: ORD-PVG

NW: DTW-PEK

CO: EWR-PVG

DL: ATL-PVG

US: PHL-PEK

UA (dark horse): IAD-PVG


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 12, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6443 times:
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Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 10):
really? wow i thought the 764s where doing well in FRA

The refurbished international 764s were never put on ATL-FRA; they have been plying ATL-LGW, MAN, MXP, MAD, BCN, and CDG (2x daily) this summer. DL20 ATL-FRA went from the 777 in the spring to a 763 immediately when the 777s were required for ICN and DXB.

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 9):
Apart from NW, to which Panamair has referred above, can we guess other applicants for routes? Probably not too hard to guess!

SFO-CAN UA 777?
IAH/EWR-PVG/PEK CO
DFW-PEK-PVG AA
IAD-PVG UA?
PHL-PVG/PEK US - was discussed some time ago, but can't think what they'll operate; A340s?

AA has already applied for ORD-PEK for 2009.
http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070628/lath102.html?.v=73
Until they get issues resolved with their pilots, they can't do DFW-China.

If DL gets the 2007 new carrier designation, US will probably end up getting the 2009 new carrier slot - they will apply for PHL-PEK in 2009. That gives them plenty of time to acquire the right aircraft, etc.

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
With 6 available, we might see this:

AA: ORD-PVG

As mentioned, AA is going with ORD-PEK for 2009.


User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 9700 posts, RR: 14
Reply 13, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6414 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
This is a travesty. Why not though, I guess. ATL remains a weak location. NW should get both DTW flights before a single ATL flight is granted. DTW covers the Southeast extremely well, plus the all-important Northeast, which DTW covers much better.

right which is why ATL-NRT,ICN,DXB,TLV dont make any money.Also why ATL-Transatlantic dont make any money?

i think DL should get both just because they have NO China flights and the southeast has NO china flights.
although i would like to see LAX china from DL!



yep.
User currently offlineTravelin man From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 3556 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6390 times:

I know it's a PR press release, but this line drives me nuts:

Both routes would fill a critical gap in air service for the 65 million residents of the U.S. Southeast who currently lack nonstop air service to China.

Errr.... only the people of ATL would get non-stop air service to China. The other people from places such as MSY, MIA, BNA, or anywhere else in the "U.S. Southeast" would still have to connect (much like they can already do today). In fact, for many residents of the Southeast (esp. West or North of ATL) existing one-stop service through ORD may be faster than the proposed connection through ATL.

I understand DL wants the route, but it is playing a little fast and loose with the facts to suggest that 65 million people would suddenly have "non-stop air service to China."


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 15, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6329 times:
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Another point I forgot to mention is that today is the deadline for carriers to submit their applications for the 2007, 2008, and 2009 designations. So expect to get another few press releases from various carriers before the end of the day. So far, the announced applications include:

2007: DL for ATL-PVG; NW for either DTW-PEK or DTW-PVG

2008 (for CAN): no one yet

2009: AA for ORD-PEK; DL for ATL-PEK; NW for either DTW-PVG or DTW-PEK; CO for EWR-PVG
CO's press release: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070716/lam142.html?.v=4

Now we just need to hear from UA and US before the day is out.....

[Edited 2007-07-16 22:22:59]

User currently offlineOrd From United States of America, joined Jul 1999, 1390 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6319 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
NW should get both DTW flights before a single ATL flight is granted.

NW should get nothing. They already have the ability to serve the routes they are applying for, yet instead choose to "waste" this authorization on Japan-China flights. NW should transfer those routes to nonstop USA-China routes, which would provide millions of Americans nonstop and one-stop service to China instead of the current one-stop and two-stop NW service.

Until NW transfers their China authority to better serve the USA-China market, they should be awarded no additional flights.


User currently offlineGlobalATL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 17, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6308 times:

DL will have everything figured out when the time comes, folks.



http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10781


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 18, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 6299 times:
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Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
Delta has the opportunity to serve JFK but instead they go for politics.

I would have liked to see DL go for JFK or LAX for the 2009 slot but who doesn't go for politics? What would you call UA's IAD-PEK "Capitol to Capitol" push the last time? Talk about politics... Smile


User currently offlineKaitak From Ireland, joined Aug 1999, 12597 posts, RR: 34
Reply 19, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6277 times:

Won't CO go for EWR to PEK/PVG anyway, so at least there'll be someone going from New York. (Is it just CA which serves the PEK route?)

Also, what about freight routes? I understand that there will be o/s skies on these, so presumably FedEx/UPS can fly whatever routes they like?


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4977 posts, RR: 25
Reply 20, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6269 times:
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Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
Won't CO go for EWR to PEK/PVG anyway

CO already flies EWR-PEK. See my post (reply#15) - CO has indeed applied for EWR-PVG for 2009.


User currently offlineB6WNQX From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6244 times:

Quoting Kaitak (Reply 19):
Also, what about freight routes? I understand that there will be o/s skies on these, so presumably FedEx/UPS can fly whatever routes they like?

I could be mistaken as I am going from memory, but I believe frieght is now exempt from slots (Due to the new agreement). Please correct em if I am wrong.


User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 22, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6236 times:

Quoting YULYMX (Reply 1):
Do they have the planes/Range to fly this?

They'll find the planes...

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
UA (dark horse): IAD-PVG

More like IAD-Guangzhou...


User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3135 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6200 times:

Quoting Flighty (Reply 11):
This is a travesty. Why not though, I guess. ATL remains a weak location. NW should get both DTW flights before a single ATL flight is granted. DTW covers the Southeast extremely well, plus the all-important Northeast, which DTW covers much better.

You're right, these flights are pretty worthless for most of us. But DL will get them due to politics. Cest la vie.

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 13):
right which is why ATL-NRT,ICN,DXB,TLV dont make any money.Also why ATL-Transatlantic dont make any money?

But none of those are restricted markets where other carriers are not legally allowed to operate. The question isn't, "will it make money". The question is, "what more deserving place isn't getting the service"?

Quoting Travelin man (Reply 14):
I understand DL wants the route, but it is playing a little fast and loose with the facts to suggest that 65 million people would suddenly have "non-stop air service to China."

And they also don't point out that ATL won't save them any time over ORD, DTW, etc. For all but ATL and the very smallest Southern communities, these flights won't do a thing.


User currently offlineFewsolarge From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 409 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 5 months 1 week 5 days 20 hours ago) and read 6136 times:

An interesting question would be how many unduplicated one-stops would be generated from new China service via ATL. I bet that number is the highest of any contender.

25 Positiverate : Sorry that us Southerners can't do more to serve your needs out there in Seattle. Your flights are pretty worthless to us, but we don't begrudge you
26 Post contains links Panamair : Well, US has come out as expected with a PHL-PEK proposal: http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070716/lam148.html?.v=6 using 269-seater A340s. They will get t
27 Positiverate : They will? And this is guaranteed how?
28 Db373 : Yes. But in reverse, ATL covers the all-important Northeast extremely well, plus the Southeast, which Atlanta covers much better.
29 EVA777SEA : Did you put any thought into that whatsoever before you typed that? Care to explain to me how exactly SEA is inconvenient for people living in the so
30 Post contains images DAL767400ER : So f'n what? If the DOT only cared about whether China flights are good for the West Coast, they never would have granted IAD-PEK to UA or EWR-PVG to
31 WorldTraveler : Thank you for shooting your own argument down. If DL can make money in highly competitive markets, they should do just fine in "protected" markets. A
32 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : It seams every time a discussion about U.S./China flights comes up, we get this sort of side-track how DL should drop the ATL proposal in favor of LA
33 SLCUT2777 : Please note my comment in reply #32 above with respects to the AS dominance of SEA as well as its geographic proximity to YVR.
34 MastaHanky : Oh come on now, you know better than that. If Atlanta was the great Asia-gateway you make it out to be, we'd have Asiana, Eva, China Airlines and who
35 SLCUT2777 : Look at replies #32 and #33 above.
36 CALPSAFltSkeds : Thanks for confirming that this process is purely political and that DL has a shot at one or two routes, even though the connection traffic to China
37 Post contains links Travelin man : Please see United's proposal of LAX-PVG. http://biz.yahoo.com/prnews/070716/aqm201.html?.v=3
38 WorldTraveler : And AS doesn't fly to Asia. Yes, it would be nice if DL acquired AS - they could do just about every viable route to China with a 767! YVR has a high
39 MastaHanky : Several Asian carriers seem to do just fine with the flights they've dropped into LAX, ORD, EWR and JFK without having agreements with hubbing carrie
40 FlyPNS1 : You might want to tell Korean that since they serve many markets where they have no partner hub (SFO, ORD, IAD, DFW). I'm sure DL will do ok with ATL
41 MastaHanky : Here, let me rephrase this a different way. Draw a line along the Mississippi River, and look at all the cities east of it that have an airport with
42 Post contains images RwSEA : Sheesh, it's interesting to see how quickly people turn the second you step out of line. But anyways ... No one even said anything about Seattle, that
43 DeltaL1011man : still no CAN flights from UA? now if only DL would try for LAX-CAN or ATL-CAN ATL will do just fine for china just like it has almost everywhere else
44 Dutchjet : Its really interesting how ""controversial"" the idea of ATL as a Asian gateway has become here at a.net....this is the third or fourth time in recent
45 Flighty : Small towns in the Northeast, yes. Then again, NW covers a lot of regional places up North that nobody else covers also. This is not what matters. Go
46 Alitalia744 : Dude let go of the reply & repeat button. You already said all that...NWA is not getting it. Let it go. Which area is the fastest growing in the coun
47 Post contains images OA412 : Amen to that! An excellent point highlighting exactly why DL has chosen ATL for its China service and why it is very likely to be a success. I rememb
48 DeltaL1011man : dude LET IT GO i think DL,UA,NW(and US as the new airline) will get it anyways so let it go bro
49 Alitalia744 : The SE is the fastest growing region in the country. Unfortunately, NWA and Detroit aren't getting it. Move on?
50 Post contains images CitrusCritter : Why not? They could put their Hill team of Stevens & Young LLC on it, and they'd have it in a jippy.
51 777gk : Atlanta is essentially a lock for the next round of China awards. It opens up a new market with no nonstop or direct service to China, brings one of t
52 Post contains images LAXdude1023 : I think most will agree that DL will get ATL-PVG. Im not sure they will get both. Nor does it revolve around the East Coast. And in case you forgot w
53 Flighty : You could say the same thing about NW bidding for DTW-GRU and DTW-GIG. More like no brains than no brainer.
54 WorldTraveler : actually, chap, it's 4 cities NONSTOP - NRT, ICN, DXB, TLV. But since they haven't bothered to use their 3 China frequencies to fly nonstop to China
55 Maverick747 : I don't know about others but I would not want to spend even half an hour more after 20+ hour trip. And I like flying. Especially, if I am flying Eco
56 Post contains images SLCUT2777 : Yes I've read this proposal, and I think it is at least 1-2 year premature. I think LAX will be the first of the two main world gateways into the U.S
57 Fewsolarge : Obviously, yes, not off O/D alone. So do you begrudge ATL the fact that they can still manage to pull it off? Try taking your own test. Yes, there ar
58 102IAHexpress : I’m not sure what all the fuss is about. If DL thinks they will be awarded the route from ATL, then more power to them. If you’re DL, you got to a
59 OA412 : Also of interest, on page 76 of DL's DOT filing is the seat map for their 77L's.
60 DeltaL1011man : when will the DOT say who gets what? can i get a link to the filling?
61 Post contains links OA412 : Sure, here it is: http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf101/476679_web.pdf
62 DeltaL1011man : ATL-PVG will be 772ER not 77L " target=_blank>http://dmses.dot.gov/docimages/pdf10...b.pdf page..77 and 78
63 Cba : Out of curiosity, why is CO not applying for this route in 2007 and instead waiting until 2009? Isn't the ATL-DXB flight a one-stop through JFK? I kn
64 DeltaL1011man : no its ATL-DXB and ATL-JFK-BOM
65 Cba : Ahh, got the two confused!
66 CALPSAFltSkeds : The 2007 filing is for a new entrant and the 2008 filing is for CAN. So, CO's first shot is 2009. Oops, I didn't look at the city choices, thinking t
67 RwSEA : I don't think anyones arguments here are childish. And I don't think I've said that DL can't make ATL work as an Asian gateway. What I've said is tha
68 Panamair : Of course nothing is guaranteed but if you use just a bit of common sense, the DOT has already indicated a strong preference for one of the 2009 slot
69 Post contains images DAL767400ER : Now that's a nice find . Interesting to see that the 77Ls will actually have more seats than the 772s - the miracle of Slimline Seats I guess . But I
70 Positiverate : And your point is...? The same could be said about DTW, DFW, IAD.... Really? The DOT would disagree with you. In the 2006 Show Cause order, on page 2
71 Post contains images Mk777 : not to go to far off topic, i was wondering that NW, DL, AA, CO fly to India (UA did), why doesn't UA restart a "capital to capital" IAD-DEL or for th
72 GlobalATL : In addition, just when so many people are opposed to DL getting a China route, whether from ATL or elsewhere, SOMETHING GREAT is going to come from t
73 FlyPNS1 : Whenever people lose in these types of awards, they always cry politics. But in reality, politics isn't a big player in these decisions. The people w
74 Post contains images Zone1 : Will DL have to ask for an extension when they get the 2007 frequency? Unless Boeing can deliver a 777LR in 90 days i don't know what DL will do. Man
75 PGNCS : When is the 764 going back to FRA?
76 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...AA already servers ORD-PVG.. ...but if its making NW money, why switch?
77 Post contains links SLCUT2777 : To further quote DL COO Jim Whitehurst: http://www.ajc.com/business/content/...delta_0717.html?cxntnid=biz071707e While others might argue it's time
78 MastaHanky : Not at all. If anything I admire Atlanta for the connectivity it generates. I go through there several times a month and its sheer efficiency really
79 Positiverate : Kinda like the way FL cried politics when they got shut out of new slots during the last FAA reauthorization, and during the slot awards at DCA prior
80 Travelin man : I'm sorry but you have to stop saying this. It is not based in fact, and the fact you repeat it does not make it so. Fact: UA is already proposing LA
81 Alitalia744 : The route can be op'd with the 777-200ER. Doing so however means another route would have to dial-down until the -LRs are delivered unless DL can obt
82 Post contains images CitrusCritter : Which is why AS should get in on this game. Stevens & Young would easily tear down the DOT, then SEA would get their China service, and AS would have
83 Zone1 : Could DL ever lease a 777 for a couple of months? Maybe from AF?
84 FlyPNS1 : No, it wasn't. The DOT gave their explanation and the letters from the Georgia delegation were not a factor. Keep in mind too that almost every appli
85 RwSEA : Despite all that, the DOT still awarded a flight to a city that already had flights to China on a US-carrier (AA in ORD). AA was also a new entrant a
86 Positiverate : Young'g not a factor anymore (not the Chairman of T&I anymore...not even the Ranking Member...and now in the minority). Now Ted, well that's a differ
87 Flighty : Other than carrier equality, and maybe politics, their criteria seems to be this: What flight will best satisfy today's USA-China demand? Today's dem
88 Zone1 : The times will be key I think. If I see that I have to leave earlier and arrive at about the same time, I'll pick the one that allows me to leave lat
89 DeltaL1011man : i think that could happen (DL had a meeting with ILFC Monday) so maybe.....as to AF i dont think so but maybe...would be cool to see a 77W flying ATL
90 Fewsolarge : I can understand that frustration. It is pretty ironic that all the attention is focused in the east. Nah, they could fly it over Anchorage and Magad
91 Post contains images CitrusCritter : He may not be the Ranking Member anymore, but if he says 'jump...' Well you know...Young's still one of the most powerful guys in the House and espec
92 CV880 : LAX to PVG or PEK. The local population is enough to fill the planes, and connections via this hub involve very little backhaul except for the Pacifi
93 WorldTraveler : it's called satire. Of course it happens... just like DL carries traffic from Texas to Asia over ATL. No... you've just proven over and over again th
94 CV880 : So why not apply for routes from both ATL & LAX , or is it they're just too "hell bent" on ATL, that nothing else will do? UA already has a "lock" on
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