Musapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1163 posts, RR: 0 Posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2846 times:
My girlfriend's sister came from HKG to MAN via LHR earlier July and was supposed to connect onto the BA1386 on 3rd July 2007. The flight was cancelled, apparently due to aircraft shortages, and she is looking for ways to get compensation from them. However I did the online form for her just now and it says 'the flight was cancelled due to uncontrollable circumstances'. However the passenger was told it was due to aircraft shortage. Can anyone within BA shred any light about the real reason to me so that I can tell her?
The only thing she got at LHR is an additional 3.5 hours wait and some more delays, and arrived into MAN exhausted! Please comment on this so that I can tell her what to do.
LHR777 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2615 times:
Delays under five hours on a flight under 1500kms, = no compensation, because an alternative flight was provided, and taken.
You fail to mention that July 3rd was also the day of a mass security alert, closing Terminal 4 for over 5 hours. This created a situation whereby aircraft and crews were out of sequence (at all terminals), and in the wrong locations. This would have created an 'aircraft shortage' due to 'uncontrollable circumstances'.
B777a340fan From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 784 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 2607 times:
Sorry to say, but your gf's sister won't be getting any compensation. And to tell you the truth, an extra 3.5 hours delay isn't much. I got stuck on the airplane for 4 hours at LHR due to weather conditions, at least she got to roam around the vast airport.
Feroze From India, joined Dec 2004, 794 posts, RR: 3
Reply 6, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 2582 times:
Quoting LHR777 (Reply 4): You fail to mention that July 3rd was also the day of a mass security alert, closing Terminal 4 for over 5 hours. This created a situation whereby aircraft and crews were out of sequence (at all terminals), and in the wrong locations. This would have created an 'aircraft shortage' due to 'uncontrollable circumstances'.
As LHR777 said above, 3rd July was chaos at LHR, esp T4. However, other terminals were affected.
As the delay was outside BA's control, no compensation will be payable.
For the record:
If you turn up at the airport this summer to find your flight has been cancelled, you may well be entitled to compensation. EU air passenger rights, introduced in 2005, were designed to stop airlines cancelling flights and abandoning passengers without paying redress. They cover all flights that start or finish in the EU.
Passengers who are prevented from boarding because the flight is overbooked or cancelled are entitled to between £165 and £410 compensation, depending on the length of the flight.
Following a long delay (two hours for short flight, more for longer ones), the airline must offer refreshments. For longer delays of more than five hours, it must offer the use of a phone, plus a hotel room if appropriate. If you are not offered this, spend what you have to, keep the receipts and claim the money when you get home. You are also entitled to a refund on your ticket - if you don't fly.
Airlines do not have to pay compensation if a flight is cancelled for safety reasons, and some travellers have alleged that the true reason for the cancellation is not necessarily the one stated. Staff shortage is a safety issue, but it should have been foreseen, and a claim should be successful in that instance.
Another common complaint is made when an airline cancels a flight and puts passengers on to a later flight to a different airport. It is supposed to cover the cost of getting you back to the original destination if required, but passengers are rarely told this.
If you are wrongly denied compensation, the small claims court is by far the best option. Until more passengers take this route, airlines will doubtless continue to cancel flights in the knowledge that they will avoid most claims.
Right to compensation for cancelled flights (not including long delays)
Where you are informed of a cancellation less than fourteen days before the planned departure date that arises from causes within the carrier's control (rather than extraordinary circumstances which could not have been avoided by all reasonable measures) you may claim compensation unless you are offered a re-route which allows departure and arrival at your final destination within the following times:
If you are informed of the cancellation between thirteen and seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than two hours before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than four hours after the scheduled time of arrival; or
If you are informed of the cancellation less than seven days before the scheduled time of departure and are offered re-routing, allowing you to depart no more than one hour before the scheduled time of departure and to reach your final destination less than two hours after the scheduled time of arrival.
The levels of compensation are specified as follows:
EUR 250 for flights of 1500 km or less
EUR 400 for flights within the EU of more than 1500 km and for all other flights between 1500km and 3500 km
EUR 600 for all other flights.
Compensation is reduced by 50% if any re-routing offered to your final destination results in a scheduled arrival time which does not exceed the scheduled arrival time of the original flight by:
Two hours for flights of 1500 km or less
Three hours for all flights within the EU of more than 1500 km and for all other flights between 1500km and 3500 km
Four hours for all other flights.
Please note that passengers are not entitled to compensation if they have been informed of a cancellation fourteen days or more before the planned departure date. Passengers will be informed of cancellations via the contact details given to the operating carrier with the booking by the passenger, the purchaser of the ticket or the travel agent.
It will be up to her to write to BA or not, I am just a mesegner in this case. Though it seems to me BA did tell a lie to her about the reason, and what time was T4 shut on that day? Shortly before noon, and her flight was cancelled early morning?
Apart from the mess at T4 at LHR (which, you are right, it happened after noon and it might not have affected your GF's sister's flight), remember that GLA had shut down for a day a couple of days before, due to its terminal being attacked. This had left planes (and crews I assume) at the wrong place and at the wrong time. On top of that, there was bad weather over London that made things even worse. I would guess that the "shortage of aircraft" was due to the plane being stuck somewhere else.
Nikon: we don't want more pixels, we want better pixels.
BCAL From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2004, 3384 posts, RR: 14
Reply 11, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2416 times:
Your girlfriend travelled over 6,000 miles, halfway across the world, flying over about 10 countries and probably ten times as many different airspaces, and you are complaining that she was delayed 3.5 hours or more, and that was even after a security scare temporarily closed LHR and yet she still arrived safely, albeit late, at her destination? Well if she was travelling from London to Manchester on a train and suffered a 3.5 hour delay, or perhaps landed at LHR and BA could not offer her an onward connection to MAN, she might get a little sympathy from me but the circumstances you described are not even worth mentioning, let alone insisting on some compensation.
IMO EU compensation does not even come into the picture here. "Operational reasons" resulted in the cancellation of BA 1386 and the shortage of aircraft was temporary due to the security scare, not BA's fault. Aircraft would probably have been in the wrong place if a full schedule had been maintained, and BA obviously strived to operate as many scheduled services as possible. With a 4-6 hour closure of LHR, doubtless this would lead to some services being cancelled or merged to mitigate the knock-on effects.
MOL on SRB's latest attack at BA: "It's like a little Chihuahua barking at a dying Labrador. Nobody cares."
Musapapaya From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2004, 1163 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 23 hours ago) and read 2331 times:
Quoting SNATH (Reply 12): Quoting BCAL (Reply 11):
"Operational reasons" resulted in the cancellation of BA 1386 and the shortage of aircraft was temporary due to the security scare, not BA's fault.
Actually, this doesn't seem to be the case:
Quoting Musapapaya (Reply 8):
and what time was T4 shut on that day? Shortly before noon, and her flight was cancelled early morning?
Well well well, my girlfriend's sister is likely to write to BA about this issue. Given all the trouble plus the poor handling at LHR, I think I will tend to support on what she thinks. I will let you guys know what happens if BA responses. Thanks again guys for all the input. I know it has been bad within UK on air transport, but things could always be done more professionally and curteously.
Shamrock_747 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (8 years 9 months 3 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 2221 times:
EU compensation is complicated subject - there are many situations in which passengers think a cancellation is within the airline's control, but in fact a number of factors could have contributed and the airline is not obliged to pay. BA have a specialist team familiar with the legislation who establish which cancelled flights are eligible, so as BA have declined the claim it is safe to say the passenger is not entitled to anything.
I realise this kind of thing can be confusing for the average passenger to understand. However the operation of an airline, particularly one the size of British Airways operating within the constraints of Heathrow, is very complex and is never too straightforward!