MPLSflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 18 posts, RR: 0 Posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3248 times:
Its not just the 777, but all aircraft that relate to my question. Every photo I view, it seems like after the 777 or 757 etc...the numbers change after that such as 777-222, A330-333 or 757-251 etc.... My question is what do the last 3 numbers which follow the name of the plane stand for.
ORDPIA From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 140 posts, RR: 1 Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3232 times:
With the Boeing planes the last three numbers/ letters represent the series and then the customer code. for example a 777-222 would be a 777-200 and the 22 represent Uniteds company code. For airbus aircraft it is different the first number represents the series and the last two the engine type IIRC, I previously has a website with all the codes listedbut have lost it, im sure someone here still has it and will share.
JBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3220 times:
Good question ... people who are fairly new to aviation may not know this.
The first number is the particular varaint of that model ... i.e, there is a 757-200 and a 757-300. The -300 series is longer than the -200 for the 757. However, a larger number doesn't mean it's longer than it's previous designation. It just means it's a newer variant than the previous. (The 737-600 is the newer than the -400 and -500 models, but also smaller).
The last two digits are the alphanumeric customer code for whomever originally ordered the aircraft. For example, all Boeing aircraft delivered to United Airlines will end in 22, and all aircraft delivered to Northwest will end in 51.
There is a website that lists all Boeing customer codes, but I do not recall it offhand.
Edit: ORDPIA beat me to posting and included the link.
Hope this helps,
~J
[Edited 2007-07-17 00:35:48]
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3199 times:
The last three numbers (the ones after the dash) are a combination of a the model of the particular plane accompanied by the Boeing customer code, to identify the original purchaser of the plane.
For example, A TWA 757 would be a 757-231, the "2" representing a -200 model of the 757, and "31" being the code for TWA:
Notice that the second one is a -2Q8, meaning a -200 model, but the original customer for this plane was the International Lease Finance Corporation, whose code is Q8.
As for differences in the series, note the 757-351 here - the -300 model is significantly longer than the -200 model.
Since no customer orders the exact same aircraft (there are always minor specification differences), each individual plane must have its own distinct and non-transferrable owner's manual, hence the need to ensure that the correct instructions are match ed with the correct plane.
These differences, both big and small, explain why many times and airline disposes of similar models during a take-over - when AA bought TWA's assets, they found significant operational differences that slowed the integration of the TWA fleet. The TWA 757's had a different cockpit design that required separate pilot certification from the AA 757's.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 3 hours ago) and read 3180 times:
And as a side note, I think a copy of the Boeing customer list on the hard drive should be a mandatory condition of membership at airliners.net. If you haven't copied and pasted from that list, do so immediately!!
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
EGNR From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2004, 503 posts, RR: 0 Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3144 times:
Quoting MPLSflyer (Thread starter): the numbers change after that such as 777-222, A330-333 or 757-251 etc.... My question is what do the last 3 numbers which follow the name of the plane stand for
With regard to Airbus model numbers, the following logic is used:
Airbus model numbers are decyphered as follows...
A3XX-ABC
Obviously, A3XX is the model - e.g. A320, A330, A340, A380, etc.
'A' denotes the series of that model - e.g. A340-200, A340-300, A340-500, A340-600, etc.
'B' denotes the engine manufacturer and is represented by one of the following numbers:
Note: ('5' is not used - not sure why, maybe the 'Europrop' joint venture for the engines on A400M was assigned the '5'?).
Examples:
A320-111 - an A320-100 fitted with the first variant of the cfm powerplant made available on the A320.
A300-605 - an A300-600 fitted with the fifth variant of the General Electric powerplant made available on the A300.
A330-243 - an A330-200 fitted with the third variant of the Rolls Royce powerplant available on the A330 model line up.
'C' denotes the variant of that engine, e.g. on the A340-500 and A340-600. Both use the Rolls Royce Trent 500, but the A340-600 uses a different, in this case higher thrust, variant of the Trent 500, so we have A340-541 and A340-642.
For example, bmi, Etihad, Emirates, MyTravel, Monarch all operate A330-243s - the code is not airline specific.
As others have mentioned, the Boeing model numbers are airline specific. A good example of this is British Airways who operate a 772 fleet comprised of both RR and GE engined examples, all ordered new. All are 777-236 models, despite the differing engines on the aircraft.
LTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 51 Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3041 times:
Quoting EGNR (Reply 6): A300-605 - an A300-600 fitted with the fifth variant of the General Electric powerplant made available on the A300.
Just as a sidenote: it would have to be an A300B4-605R or A300F4-605R (The F4 being the same B4, just that the B is replaced with an F to show that it's a factory built freighter). Most A300s are of the B4 type, which includes also the B4-600 model. The B or F after the model designator was only used with the A300, and if other Airbus aircraft were to be built as freighters (e.g. the A330-200F), they'd just have the F at the very end of the full aircraft designation
Ptrjong From Netherlands, joined Mar 2005, 3766 posts, RR: 20 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3032 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 4): Since no customer orders the exact same aircraft (there are always minor specification differences), each individual plane must have its own distinct and non-transferrable owner's manual,
Which means the customer codes are just what they are. They tell you who originally bought the airframe, and very little about the airframe's technical standard. Which is why I saw a Boeing 747-4HA/ER/F/SCD the other day.
Peter
The only difference between me and a madman is that I am not mad (Salvador Dali)
CygnusChicago From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 758 posts, RR: 8 Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3032 times:
Quoting ORDPIA (Reply 1): With the Boeing planes the last three numbers/ letters represent the series and then the customer code
Hmmm, does this mean Boeing can only sell new build planes to 100 airlines (0-99), including defunct airlines like TWA, Pan Am, etc?
If you cannot do the math, your opinion means squat!
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 2 hours ago) and read 3000 times:
Quoting CygnusChicago (Reply 11): Quoting ORDPIA (Reply 1):
With the Boeing planes the last three numbers/ letters represent the series and then the customer code
Hmmm, does this mean Boeing can only sell new build planes to 100 airlines (0-99), including defunct airlines like TWA, Pan Am, etc?
I think it took 15 years, from Pan Am's first 707 order in October 1955 until 1969 before they ran out of 2-digit customer numbers and had to switch to alpha-numerics (A0, A1, A2 etc.)
JBo From Sweden, joined Jan 2005, 2278 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2974 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 12): I think it took 15 years, from Pan Am's first 707 order in October 1955 until 1969 before they ran out of 2-digit customer numbers and had to switch to alpha-numerics (A0, A1, A2 etc.)
Correct. Some airlines have completely alphabetic codes, like Midwest. Their 717s are 717-2BL
I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day.
Acey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 981 posts, RR: 0 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2955 times:
Quoting PanAm747 (Reply 5): And as a side note, I think a copy of the Boeing customer list on the hard drive should be a mandatory condition of membership at airliners.net. If you haven't copied and pasted from that list, do so immediately!!
Bypassing the possible sarcastic nature of that statement, I say this. Once it's established that the codes just refer to the customer, does it really matter what they are for a given airline? If I wanted to talk about a Southwest 737-300 I wouldn't drop the airline's name in lieu of the code and say, "Yeah, I saw a 737-3H4 while spotting last weekend," I would simply say a "Southwest 737-300".
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
CanadianNorth From Canada, joined Aug 2002, 3371 posts, RR: 10 Reply 15, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2943 times:
Quoting Acey (Reply 14): "Yeah, I saw a 737-3H4 while spotting last weekend," I would simply say a "Southwest 737-300".
That wouldn't work anyway, as aircraft can change hands several times and still have the same code.
For example, look at NAU. It is a 737-201Adv. If I said I saw a 737-201Adv, the list would tell me I saw a Piedmont 737-200Adv, when actually it's an Air North 737 I was looking at.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 21448 posts, RR: 24 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2909 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 17): Quoting Acey (Reply 16):
the majority in the United States are first hand
I would wager that the majority of commercial airliners aircraft in the US have changed hands at least once.
For example, plenty of the AA Mad Dogs are ex TWA and others.
Over the years, many US aircraft have changed hands, or they have bought used aircraft from foreign airlines etc. Combining all of those changes with the various mergers, the Boeing numbering system is very useful to help identify the original operator. If you want to determine the original operator of Douglas/McDonnell Douglas types (e.g. NW DC-9s that originated with many airlines in various parts of the world) you have to do much more research.
Acey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 981 posts, RR: 0 Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2907 times:
Quoting Starlionblue (Reply 17): I would wager that the majority of commercial airliners aircraft in the US have changed hands at least once.
I tried to use WN, since I know many of their aircraft have not. All that's beside the point anyway, I was simply trying to diminish the importance of customer codes entirely.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
VV701 From United Kingdom, joined Aug 2005, 6612 posts, RR: 17 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week 1 hour ago) and read 2890 times:
Quoting EGNR (Reply 6): As others have mentioned, the Boeing model numbers are airline specific. A good example of this is British Airways who operate a 772 fleet comprised of both RR and GE engined examples, all ordered new. All are 777-236 models, despite the differing engines on the aircraft.
Boeing started their listing with '20', the code they use for themselves. They then allocated codes to the major US (legacy) airlines. So '21' is PA, '22' is UA, '23' is AA etc.
The first non-American airline to be allocated a code was AF who were allocated '28'. I believe that then every time an order was received from an airline that did not yet have a code allocated the next highest number was used.
Numbers were sequentially issued up to '99' (British Caledonian Airways). Boeing then went back and used '01' (Piedmont) through '19' (Air New Zealand). Then it started issuing alpha-numeric codes but issued them in a random order.
'36' - see above - was originally allocated to BOAC and then to its successor, BA. However something unusual happened with BA's original (launch) order for the 752. The lowest 19 msns of the 757 were allocated by Boeing to the opening BA order. Delivery of these aircraft was originally scheduled for between late 1982 and mid 1985. However the world economy and the British economy in particular suffered a severe downturn in this period (with Sterling falling to a historic low of less than $US 1.04 equal to £1.00 in February 1984 compared to today's rate of just below US $2.04). So BA postponed delivery of two of these aircraft.
Specifically the aircraft were 757 236 msn 22176/14 (originally allocated G-BIKE) and 22185/34 (allocated G-BIKN). Instead of being bought by BA these aircraft were bought by International Leisure Group Travel (ILG Travel) the parent company of British airline Air Europe. But the aircraft retained the BA Boeing '36' code. They were reallocated the registrations G-BKRM and G-BPGW.
Subsequently ILG founded the Spanish airline, Air Europa. These two aircraft were transferred between Air Europe and Air Europa. So, for example, G-BKRM became EC-108 and then EC-EGI with Air Europa, was returned to Air Europe with G-BKRM restored, then went back to Air Europa as EC-321, was subsequently returned to Air Europe again as G-BKRM, before being registered to Air Europa as EC-451 and then as EC-FTL.
Eventually ILG Travel ordered its own 752s from Boeing for use by Air Europe and Air Europa. So, for example, msn 24397/221 was delivered in March 1989 as one of the aircraft of this order and operated as G-BRJD, EC-349 and EC-ESC. Boeing allocated this and all other ILG/Air Europe/Air Europa 752s the BA type number '36'. But these aircraft never had any connection with BA despite their type number.
What makes this strange is that ILG Travel / Air Europe had already been allocated its own Boeing type number, 'S3' when it purchased 732s in the late 1970s.
To further complicate the issue ILG Travel and Air Europe were subsequently declared bankrupt and went into liquidation. However Air Europa survived and is today as a financially strong Spanish airline. Boeing therefore allocated it its own unique code '5P'. So this airline has had three codes, 'S3', '5P' and the shared '36'.
Starlionblue From Hong Kong, joined Feb 2004, 15866 posts, RR: 66 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2862 times:
Quoting Acey (Reply 19): I tried to use WN, since I know many of their aircraft have not. All that's beside the point anyway, I was simply trying to diminish the importance of customer codes entirely.
Come on! They make life fun for us aerogeeks!
"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots." - from Citadel by John Ringo
Acey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 981 posts, RR: 0 Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 1 week ago) and read 2850 times:
Quoting CanadianNorth (Reply 15): That wouldn't work anyway, as aircraft can change hands several times and still have the same code.
Casually, I'm sure if you see a WN -700 you just think 7H4, without caring to confirm that it was originally given that title. As I said, I think it's all negligible.
If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
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