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Nobody Wants Alitalia  
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10259 times:

BREAKING NEWS

Alitalia last possible customer decided to quit the offer.

When the government offered Alitalia stocks the most of the people thought that maybe it should have been bought by a serious company. The offer received 6 or 7 groups offers, but all of them decided not to continue the offer.

Air One, the last remained, decided to quit tonight.

69 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineF.pier From Italy, joined Aug 2000, 1523 posts, RR: 9
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10237 times:

In Italian

Roma, 17 lug. (Adnkronos/Ign) - Air One si ritira dalla gara per la privatizzazione di Alitalia. Ap Holding, infatti, ''dopo un'attenta analisi del contratto di vendita e con grande disappunto, rende noto che allo stato attuale non presenterà il prossimo 23 luglio l'offerta vincolante per la privatizzazione di Alitalia''.

Lo comunica la società, precisando che ''le attuali condizioni della versione definitiva del contratto di vendita ricevuto nei giorni scorsi dalla Procedura non consentono la realizzazione di un piano forte di risanamento e rilancio di Alitalia''.

In questi sette mesi di lavoro Ap Holding, si legge nella nota, ''ha messo a punto, con il supporto di primarie società di consulenza, un piano strategico per Alitalia con l'obiettivo di renderla il quarto vettore aereo in Europa. Per la realizzazione del piano è stato già predisposto un piano finanziario che garantirebbe la copertura dei significativi investimenti richiesti. E' stato già individuato, inoltre, un Amministratore delegato di livello internazionale che avrebbe guidato il progetto''.

Pur trovandosi attualmente nell'impossibilita' di procedere a concorrere alla privatizzazione di Alitalia, AP Holding, si legge ancora, ''ribadisce la propria disponibilità ad impegnarsi per il rilancio della compagnia. Il rinnovato interesse imprenditoriale per l'operazione richiede, tuttavia, condizioni di acquisto diverse, che rendano possibile una crescita sostenibile e competitiva di Alitalia''.

Ap Holding, sempre interessata, si legge nella nota, ''continuerà a seguire da vicino gli sviluppi relativi al processo di privatizzazione di Alitalia confidando che il piano messo a punto in questi sette mesi è la migliore soluzione per il rilancio della Compagnia di bandiera. Ap Holding nel frattempo prosegue nello sviluppo del piano industriale di Air One stand alone che prevede una strategia di ampliamento delle attività sui mercati internazionali: già oggi sono 9 le destinazioni europee raggiunte dalla compagnia (d'estate diventano quindici) e 23 le destinazioni domestiche''.

http://www.adnkronos.com/IGN/Economia/?id=1.0.1115373136


User currently offlineLIPZ From Austria, joined Jun 2006, 1075 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10221 times:

Air One Pulls Out of Alitalia Race
Associated Press 07.17.07, 3:27 PM ET

ROME - Italy's Air One has withdrawn from the bidding for a large stake in struggling airline Alitalia, officials said Tuesday, leaving only one official bidder for the country's flagship carrier.

http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/07/17/ap3923001.html


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 10180 times:

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
Alitalia last possible customer decided to quit the offer.

vs.

Quoting LIPZ (Reply 2):
ROME - Italy's Air One has withdrawn from the bidding for a large stake in struggling airline Alitalia, officials said Tuesday, leaving only one official bidder for the country's flagship carrier.

So, is there still one bidder left or not ? Who would that be ?

_______
Priot to that reply, I was to ask ...:

Quoting F.pier (Thread starter):
Alitalia last possible customer decided to quit the offer.

So, what will be the future for AZ ?
I neither think that it just can go on unchanged not do I think that AZ will be allowed to simply cease op's and die ...

OTOH, European law sets limits for federal subsidies ...

Looks like a "loose-loose" situation for AZ.
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineFlyingcat From United States of America, joined May 2007, 541 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 9966 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
So, is there still one bidder left or not ?

According to WSJ there are no more bidders. It looks like the government is shielding the personnel so much that they may all lose their jobs.

Instead of restructuring AZ might be facing liquidation.

I say the employees should strike. Big grin


User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9902 times:

Few thread titles on a.net manage sum things up as briefly yet concisely as this one. My compliments!  Big grin

I have to ask: what next for Alitalia? Do things continue on "as normal"? Any guesses on where this situation goes from here?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21474 posts, RR: 60
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9850 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Few thread titles on a.net manage sum things up as briefly yet concisely as this one. My compliments!

Well, I'd maybe add the world Employees.

"Nobody Wants Alitalia Employees"

That is the crux of the problem afterall. If they are going to strike every month, it's a losing proposition for anyone.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMacc From Austria, joined Nov 2004, 1031 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9815 times:

Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 4):
I say the employees should strike. 

which they will do today, according to a news wire from last week Big grin



I exchanged political frustration with sexual boredom. better spoil a girl than the world
User currently offlinePr1268 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 12 hours ago) and read 9772 times:

Quoting Lumberton (Reply 5):
Few thread titles on a.net manage sum things up as briefly yet concisely as this one. My compliments!

Few thread titles on a.net manage to sum things up as depressingly as this one.  Sad



The only time an aircraft has too much fuel is when it is on fire.
User currently offlineShuggie From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2007, 120 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 9699 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
So, is there still one bidder left or not ? Who would that be ?

The way this BBC News article explains it, there is one bidder left but they are not considered a serious contender:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/6903705.stm

Surely this must signal the beginning of the end for AZ ?


User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6712 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 3):
So, what will be the future for AZ ?
I neither think that it just can go on unchanged not do I think that AZ will be allowed to simply cease op's and die ...

The problem is that if the employees of Alitalia are unwilling to face the reality of the company's situation, then Alitalia should be allowed to shut down and have its assets sold off. While it is awful for people to lose their jobs, it is by the same token unacceptable for a company's unions to essentially drive it into the ground. If they're unwilling to give up enough to allow the company to survive, they don't deserve to keep their jobs.


User currently offlineVictorKilo From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 304 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9474 times:

From the Reuters story, it seems like Nobody Wants Alitalia (under the terms and conditions mandated by the Italian Government).

Quote:
"The conditions presented in the contract do not allow ... the development of a strong entrepreneurial project to revive and relaunch Alitalia," Air One said in a statement.

But it remained interested and said it would continue to monitor developments.

Air One had asked for changes that would have allowed it to back out of a deal if antitrust authorities imposed onerous conditions, a source closely involved said, and if it was unable to reach a deal with Alitalia's strike-prone unions, according to Italian newspaper Il Sole 24 Ore.

Alitalia's long-time commercial partner, Air France (AIRF.PA), has snubbed the auction, saying it was not interested under current conditions.

Given Alitalia's labor relations history, I think that Air One's demand to be able to back out if the union doesn't agree is a very prudent demand on their part. The Italian Government appears to have decided that it needs to gain short-term favor with the unions to help push through other parts of its agenda. Air One called their bluff, and now the Italian Government may be stuck with an airline they can't sell, an airline that has lost money since 2002, and an airline that cannot legally receive assistance from the government. The Italian Government may have gained short-term favor with the unions by not giving into Air One's demands, but they may lose long-term favor with them if the long-term implication of the government's decision is the grounding of Alitalia.


User currently offlineNzrich From New Zealand, joined Dec 2005, 1521 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 8 hours ago) and read 9473 times:

Quoting ScottB (Reply 10):
The problem is that if the employees of Alitalia are unwilling to face the reality of the company's situation, then Alitalia should be allowed to shut down and have its assets sold off. While it is awful for people to lose their jobs, it is by the same token unacceptable for a company's unions to essentially drive it into the ground. If they're unwilling to give up enough to allow the company to survive, they don't deserve to keep their jobs.

Unfortunately Alitalia is crippled with many strikes giving the airline a bad name for reliability .. Striking when a airline could possibly go under does not seem the smartest move but then again thats exactly what happend with some of the big American carriers when they went through restructuring to stay alive .. Threats of strikes were made while the airlines were at risk ..



"Pride of the pacific"
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9355 times:

Quoting Flyingcat (Reply 4):
Instead of restructuring AZ might be facing liquidation.

There you go.

Liquidate and then AirOne can come in and buy up the good assets like the 777s, routes and maybe the name Alitalia cheap. Thus purchasing Alitalia but under its own terms. The brand is known world wide and if reborn with a new image (not livery wise) it can only help AirOne expand and profit.

Just an idea.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineCoewraatysaz From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 196 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

As much as I hate to see Italy's flag carrier go... I am not sorry. I hate that dam airline and everytime I have to deal w/ them at work I'd rather get a root canal than have to call them.


Continental Airlines: Trabajar con empe�?��?�±o, Volar con Pasi�?��?�³n
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9348 times:

AZ is hardly the first airline to be liquidated and shut down.... SR and SN both met very poor fates.... AZ has been living on borrowed time for far too long.

With EU-US Open Skies just around the corner, there is no reason any more for anyone to attempt to bail out AZ. They are too damaged and have way too many people.

The real question is who will win from AZ's shutdown. Clearly the remaining carriers that operate to/from Italy will do well.

AZ will probably be kept alive through the summer but it is far from certain how long beyond the summer it will remain flying. Anyone who books on AZ more than a few weeks away should do so with a great deal of caution.


User currently offlineTK787 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 4392 posts, RR: 12
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 7 hours ago) and read 9301 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):
Anyone who books on AZ more than a few weeks away should do so with a great deal of caution.

Oh no, just tonight I bought tix for Sept. travel. What do you think might happen by then?


User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 24
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 6 hours ago) and read 9207 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
Oh no, just tonight I bought tix for Sept. travel. What do you think might happen by then?

AZ will be on strike on the very days of your travel ! Big grin

Serious: I doubt that AZ will go under that fast; politics are way too strong in this case ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineLonghaulheavy From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 402 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9126 times:

What do they mean no one wants Alitalia? I'll take them.

User currently offlineTUNisia From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1844 posts, RR: 5
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 9115 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):

Oh no, just tonight I bought tix for Sept. travel. What do you think might happen by then?

If they do shut down, and you used a credit card you simply initiate a chargeback. It's your right.



Someday the sun will shine down on me in some faraway place - Mahalia Jackson
User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 4 hours ago) and read 9067 times:

Quoting TK787 (Reply 16):
Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 15):
Anyone who books on AZ more than a few weeks away should do so with a great deal of caution.

Oh no, just tonight I bought tix for Sept. travel. What do you think might happen by then?

According to one of the articles I read, the company can survive for some time before it runs out of money. Strikes might be a problem when the staff realise that the impossible is going to happen - they are actually going to be out of a job.


User currently offlineDeguoren From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 8939 times:

There's still one investor in: Matlin Patterson Global Advisors. It's the company that had already quit once but returned a few months ago.
They were interested in Varig, Worldcom (yes, "that" Worldcom) and some other bancrupt companies or risk capital/ "risk debts". (For the German fellows: they bought bancrupt "Heros")
Even some say it's very questionable whether they are really interested, MPGA is usually very quiet, don't communicate much, don't even disclose any additional company information - they just buy or don't buy...

Deadline (of the thrid respite) is on Jul 23 - so you'll still have some time, if any of you want to buy AZ.   You can have old aircraft, around 620 mio Euro loss p.a., and a continuously striking staff.

My guess AZ will be scrapped and its assets sold off.

BTW: Just went for a LH ticket from MUC to FCO - though I (used to) prefer AZ - but I'm scared they won't be operating in October ...

[Edited 2007-07-18 09:31:02]

[Edited 2007-07-18 09:35:34]

User currently offlineLTU932 From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 13864 posts, RR: 50
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8887 times:

Quoting Art (Reply 20):
Strikes might be a problem when the staff realise that the impossible is going to happen

I would say that the impossible isn't going to happen, but that it is the inevitable that will happen. All AZ employees should realise that before going on a strike. AZ has been on life support for long enough as it is.

My guess is that this may be the final nail in the coffin for AZ. Even my father is increasingly frustrated with AZ going down the drain, especially with all those strikes that are occuring and quite frankly, with all those strikes, I'm surprised AZ has even lasted this long.


User currently offlineArt From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3381 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8862 times:

Quoting Deguoren (Reply 21):
My guess AZ will be scrapped and its assets sold off.

The brand name must have some value. I hope someone buys it and carries it on. It would be nice to see a "proper" Alitalia (new management, new staff, no political support/interference).


User currently offlinePanamair From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 4876 posts, RR: 25
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 week 6 days 2 hours ago) and read 8846 times:
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Quoting Deguoren (Reply 21):
There's still one investor in: Matlin Patterson Global Advisors. It's the company that had already quit once but returned a few months ago.
They were interested in Varig, Worldcom (yes, "that" Worldcom) and some other bancrupt companies or risk capital/ "risk debts". (For the German fellows: they bought bancrupt "Heros")
Even some say it's very questionable whether they are really interested, MPGA is usually very quiet, don't communicate much, don't even disclose any additional company information - they just buy or don't buy...

I believe MPGA is currently out of the bidding game. They were lining up with the Texas Pacific Group (TPG) - yes the same ones involved in QF and a host of other carriers - but TPG backed out. The Italian govt. had invited MPGA back to bid but MPGA's response has been lukewarm and unclear at best.

http://www.atwonline.com/news/story.html?storyID=9587


25 Burkhard : All a private investor could do is to put it into parts and sell these. I see two parts that will get interest. a) the long range traffic from Rome an
26 Post contains images Deguoren : Very good question. Would be interesting to find out about the value of the brand "Alitalia", as it has tradition but also suffered damage over aroun
27 Post contains links and images Deguoren : " target=_blank>http://www.atwonline.com/news/story....=9587 MPGA's responses are always lukewarm and unclear. Handelsblatt (source only in German) sa
28 Post contains images SRMD11 : Poor Italians! If nobody likes the whole Airline - so maybe someoone would like a single plane (for free)... I feel pitty and would take one of the MD
29 Max777geek : bankrupt, split and sold. Shame to say, if the flight operation does not raise any income, the maintenance is still selling out well also to other co
30 Max777geek : You would be very disappointed about the smell, if rumours about they have been left outside the maintenance hangar with food trolleys full for month
31 ZRH : Who is wondering? Even if I had the money I wouldn't touch AZ with a barge pole. You can be sure that short after the acquisition the unions will go s
32 Revelation : If a cat has nine lives, Alitalia has 9999 lives! I think if there was to be a liquidation, there'd be more than AirOne at the bidder's table.
33 Post contains images EHHO : Wow, I'm booking right away, always wanted to fly an empty plane!
34 Scouseflyer : This is exactly what happened to the MGRiver car operations in the UK - they were in talks for ages with a Chinese consortium who pulled out, MGR wen
35 FlyTUITravel : I really wish AZ would just hurry up and go bust! I know a lot of people will lose their jobs and I feel for them, but I'm sure they'll get a much bet
36 Post contains links IL62M : SU will probably get his bid back on track if they get new and "real" suggestion from the government of Italy. There's the news link http://www.avia.r
37 UAL777UK : Just an idea and one which i also suggested on another thread yesterday. The staff striking so often have shot themselves in the foot on this one. So
38 Post contains images Fairchild24 : I wonder what Airline the Pope will use when AZ is gone Perhaps it´s time for him to buy something of his own. Pope Airlines, "If heaven can´t wait.
39 ScottB : And the threats turned out to be empty in most cases, while in one case (Eastern), a strike led to the company's eventual failure. Arguably, if one o
40 Pmg1704 : Hey that's what you get when you're: Always Late In Takeoff, Always Late In Arrival!
41 Post contains images Airbazar : Unfortunately it is known for all the bad reasons I can't think of any reason why anyone in their right mind and free will would buy a ticket on Alit
42 Post contains images SandroZRH : Some Union leader said in an interview with swiss TV that: Air One asked for a three years guarantee not to strike, and pulled out after we declined,
43 Post contains images Airbus340 : I have a flight from BCN to YYZ on the end of August and flying back on mid September YYZ - MXP - FCO - BCN. I hope I'll be able to travel!! Why? Well
44 Post contains images SandroZRH : Shame on you!
45 Poitin : This makes sense, given the employee issues. Better to start with a clean slate and get rid of the deadwood, of which there is a large forest. At lea
46 Mandala499 : Wonder what they're striking on? Demanding that someone buys them? LOL Imagine "AZ employees on strike in front of Air One HQ demanding Air One buys A
47 Post contains images Airbus340 : I have all the time in the world to fly them! I hope they (Swiss) change their interior colors...
48 Post contains images Airbazar : Contantly delayed or canceled flights; lost luggage; bad service; I guess you could call that an adventure If all you expect from an airline is that
49 Art : I think that what is too much for all bidders is that the Italian government might want the company restructured but does NOT want any of the inevita
50 Post contains images Deguoren : They are striking against the managements' restructuring plan. Funny thing: Currently, there is no such plan...
51 Post contains images Plunaaircanada : Yea I was thinking same thing lol, anybody knows why they strike?? plunaaircanada
52 Deguoren : I meant it the way I said it: Fear or restructuring and job losses. However, there's currently no plan.[Edited 2007-07-18 21:57:36]
53 Post contains images Lumberton : Personally, I would hate to see Alitalia go. It's one of the few things on a.net upon which most of us generally agree.
54 Post contains links AirTran737 : Looks like someone wants them http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUKN1827283920070718?rpc=44
55 Macc : orf.at now reports that Italian government officially declared the sale of Alitalia as unsuccessful and the sales process as stopped. No bidders left,
57 WorldTraveler : but the more money you burn, the less valuable the assets are that are left. If you let the house burn to the ground, you call the wrecking crew. If
58 Post contains images Airbus340 : Delayed flights? Take BA... Left BCN for LHR with a 2 HOUR late take-off (not to say it arrived vary late as well) Lost luggage? Take British Airways
59 Adicool : As it has been said here a couple of times already, I think, as sad as is it, AZ will sooner or later be gone. The really big winner of this will prop
60 SandroZRH : You feel for them?? Most of them are one of the major reasons this company is going where it's going. I for one don't feel one tiny bit for them.
61 Sevenair : Well if it is not making money then it should close. It's business. It happens. Let someone else have a go at making it work. The current AZ managemen
62 American 767 : Does that mean Sky Team will loose a member? Well then what will Italy's major airline be? Will there be a new Alitalia like there was a new Sabena, S
63 ZRH : Because LH is a shareholder of air One.
64 Post contains images Rbgso : Agreed, especially after they liquidate. That will eliminate the inconvenience of returning to work......
65 Post contains images SailorOrion : I don't On a more serious note. Letting AZ die possibly enables someone else to be a decent, representative carrier for Italy. AZ is just a national
66 Adicool : Correct me if i'm wrong, but i think LH and AP already have a codeshare agreement on all German-Italien routes (could be wrong though) and AP is alli
67 Nycfly75 : The government announced today the only two options are a sale or liquidation. No more state aid.
68 HT : In case AZ should fold suddenly, I think the north of Italy is pretty well covered with connections to MUC by LH & Air Dolomiti for connections to out
69 Post contains images OHLHD : What a big surprise! Why is that nobody wants to have that piece of .......! Liquidation is the only way to go to make these AZ people clear that the
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