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TAM Plane Crashed In CGH  
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11510 posts, RR: 57
Posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63221 times:
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Just from the news .. O GLOBO reports a TAM plane crashed in CGH after overshooting the runway.

Waiting more info. Firemans working...

This afternoon another fire.. on SDU new terminal ... sad day

Nightmare... just some weeks after Infraero release the runway without the right grooving procedures.


[Edited 2007-07-18 00:20:46]

[Edited 2007-07-18 00:22:46]

New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
286 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7484 posts, RR: 56
Reply 1, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63176 times:

The plane is a F100.
According to the first informations,it skidded off the wet runway.

User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1706 posts, RR: 47
Reply 2, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63101 times:

Media is saying the aircraft overshot the runway on landing. Could be a failed RTO, media would not know the difference at this point. It is not raining at the moment.

Flight number has not been released but it is a TAM tail sticking out of the warehouse (a TAM Express warehouse, no less). A320 series aircraft.

User currently offlineMatheus From Brazil, joined Nov 2003, 135 posts, RR: 7
Reply 3, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63060 times:

That is the PR-MBK or MBC. It ran out runway 35L and crashed into the gas station.
Now they are saying on tv that was the JJ3018 (CWB-CGH) and had 170 pax on board.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11510 posts, RR: 57
Reply 4, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63060 times:
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Seems to be MBK, one A320 (corrected)

[Edited 2007-07-18 00:40:25]

New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7484 posts, RR: 56
Reply 5, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 63014 times:

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 2):
A320 series aircraft.

OGLOBO initially talked about a F100. Now they they talk about a plane carrying 170 passengers ... so definately not a F100.

"Avião derrapa na pista de Congonhas e provoca incêndio no hangar da TAMAeronave que vinha de Porto Alegre com 170 passageiros estava em procedimento de pouso no aeroporto de São Paulo. Bombeiros estão no local e tentam conter o fogo"

User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1706 posts, RR: 47
Reply 6, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 62960 times:

Quoting FlySSC (Reply 5):
OGLOBO initially talked about a F100

Tail was visible on TV, definitely not a F100.

User currently offlineWesternA318 From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 5757 posts, RR: 22
Reply 7, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 62851 times:

Definately not a good day for one of my favorite airlines, RIP to anyone who perished

Check out my blog at fl310travel.blogspot.com!
User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 62851 times:

Flight 5018 from Porto Alegre

"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1706 posts, RR: 47
Reply 9, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62634 times:

The runways at CGH were recently resurfaced, one analyst on TV is saying that the new surfaces are not grooved and therefore don't have drainage capacity. He is calling it gross negligence by INFRAERO, the government owned monopoly of airport infrastructure.

User currently offline777Daedalus From Brazil, joined Oct 2005, 29 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62590 times:

What is wrong with Brasilian aviation? Brasilian aviation used to be the envy of Latin America. Just yesterday an ATR-42 skidded off the same runway. The runway where this happened has been newly resurfaced and was delivered into service without proper groovings to aid in braking. How is this possible? What kind of banana republic is this turning into? What is going on? Somebody's head needs to roll. This accident, like the GOL - EMBRAER collision last year, are completely needless. This is absolutely not acceptable.

User currently offlineCmtehori From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62514 times:

Media says now it was flt 3054... Can anyone pull out the schedule??

727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62456 times:

Definitely a sad day in Brazil [and around the world].

Unfortunately can't find more info in the net.  Sad

User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11510 posts, RR: 57
Reply 13, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62379 times:
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Quoting Santosdumont (Reply 8):
Flight 5018 from Porto Alegre

5xxx is not a flight code for Tam. All their domestic flights begin with 3xxx.

Hope we can hear no fatalities.

Quoting Mrocktor (Reply 9):
He is calling it gross negligence by INFRAERO, the government owned monopoly of airport infrastructure.

Agree 100%, they waste money with Aeroshopping.. now people waste (i wish not) their lives... and this is something we discuss in here several times.

Quoting 777Daedalus (Reply 10):
Just yesterday an ATR-42 skidded off the same runway

The press has warned about the risks of CGH several times, and it's become the nations hub. Now that something happen unfortunately people will understand that São Paulo is over congested and it's a clear risk to keep operations there. GRU TPS3 now and transfer connection flights immediately to VCP, CNF and GIG for our safety !

Some people complain against the judge that closed CGH.... now what ? The government of Brazil is a shame, need to waste lives in order to take the right attitude.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineMrocktor From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 1706 posts, RR: 47
Reply 14, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62293 times:

Quoting 777Daedalus (Reply 10):
What is wrong with Brazilian aviation?

Too much government beaurocracy, no accountability.

User currently offlineLGA777 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1149 posts, RR: 17
Reply 15, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62229 times:

If it was MBK then this would be an very interesting photo !

View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Carlos A. Morillo Doria

Here is hoping for 170 surviviors !



User currently offlineSkyteam2000 From Spain, joined Apr 2004, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62218 times:

You can see life on globo news....


User currently offlineEZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4973 posts, RR: 23
Reply 17, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62121 times:

According to Argentine tv first reports (not official though) say no survivors  Sad

Carp aunque ganes o pierdas ...
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11510 posts, RR: 57
Reply 18, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62126 times:
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A picture from O GLOBO:

CHA_SP_capa_acidente.jpg" width="240" height="165" border=0>

CHA_SP_capa_acidente.jpg" target=_blank>http://oglobo.globo.com/fotos/2007/07/17/17_CHA_SP_capa_acidente.jpg

New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineCmtehori From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 62008 times:

TAM has provided to families and friends a toll free number for information: 0800-11 79 00

My best thoughts and prays to all involved. One more sad sad day for brazilian aviation, is this going to end?!

727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
User currently offlineSantosdumont From Brazil, joined Dec 2003, 1201 posts, RR: 4
Reply 20, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 61860 times:

According to the online itinerary, the afternoon flight from PGP is 3054.

"Pursuit Of Truth No Matter Where It Lies" -- Metallica
User currently offlineSpeedbirdie From United Kingdom, joined May 2006, 940 posts, RR: 51
Reply 21, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 61860 times:

Quoting 777Daedalus (Reply 10):
What is wrong with Brasilian aviation? Brasilian aviation used to be the envy of Latin America. Just yesterday an ATR-42 skidded off the same runway. The runway where this happened has been newly resurfaced and was delivered into service without proper groovings to aid in braking. How is this possible? What kind of banana republic is this turning into? What is going on? Somebody's head needs to roll. This accident, like the GOL - EMBRAER collision last year, are completely needless. This is absolutely not acceptable

And Cue Armchair CEO.. Right on Time...

Another sad day for aviation..

Never give up..
User currently offlineCmtehori From Brazil, joined Jun 2005, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 61740 times:

First victim just rescued, unfortunately already dead  Sad

May his (her) sould R.I.P.

727-200, 737-300/700/800, 757-200, 767-200/300/400, A310, A319, A320, A330, MD-88, MD-11, DC-8-73F, F100, ERJ145, CRJ200
User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11510 posts, RR: 57
Reply 23, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 61742 times:
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Accordingly to O GLOBO:

SÃO PAULO - Informações preliminares do Corpo de Bombeiros afirmam que vítimas estão sendo retiradas do avião da TAM que caiu em Congonhas nesta noite. Elas devem ser encaminhadas para os hospitais São Paulo e Jabaquara que estão mais próximos do local do acidente. O Corpo de Bombeiros deve montar um posto médico avançado no local para dar os primeiros socorros às vítimas.

Preliminary info from Fireman's says victims are being removed from TAM plane that crashed CGH runway this night. They should be taken to São Paulo and Jabaquara hospitals which are closer from the accident site. Fireman will organize a First Aid Medical Facility on the site.

Hope they are right... looking for the right is hard to believe there are survivals.


New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 24, posted (8 years 7 months 1 day ago) and read 61598 times:


SAO PAULO, Brazil -- A plane carrying at least 150 people crashed into a gas station after landing at Sao Paulo's airport Tuesday, Brazil's airport authority said.

The TAM airline's Airbus-320 skidded off the road and crashed into the gas station outside Congonhas airport, said Jose Leonardi Mota, a spokesman with airport authority Infraero.

Mota said the flight originated in the southern city of Porto Alegre.

There were no immediate reports on injuries or deaths....



25 Post contains images EZEIZA : 174 people on board apparently. This reminds me of the other TAM crash in the 90's deoarting CGH .... this is another sad day
26 Post contains links and images AeroWesty : Some photos from a long distance away are already posted on flickr.com: http://www.flickr.com/photos/marianamarinovic/ These don't show the actual acc
27 ULMFlyer : O Globo confirms JJ 3054, an A320. I'll reserve my comments about this government after more info is released.
28 Post contains images Trekster : Hope there are survivors Another sad day in the world of aviation
29 Mrocktor : Newsman just said that the aircraft was attempting to take off, after realizing that he would not be able to stop. I wouldn't put too much stock in th
30 Post contains links ENU : Unfortunately, these images are not hope giving at all: http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1
31 LipeGIG : Official Press Release from TAM A aeronave da TAM Airbus A320, vôo JJ 3054, que partiu de Porto Alegre, às 17h16, com destino ao aeroporto de Congon
32 Cmtehori : It is, just called JJ ops the only thing the wanted to tell me is that it was JJ3054 PT-MBK. You know what is really bizarre? TAM 402 (is that right?
33 EZEIZA : Two survivors apparently already rescued according to TV reports ... let's hope for more!
34 DeltaAVL : Wow, it sounds like there are no survivors, which is really a shame, considering the fact that it's a mere runway overrun. My condolences to the famil
35 Style : Sadly it falls on the same day that TWA 800 crashed 11 years ago.
36 Dudubsb : Eight passengers are curently being taken care of in nearby hospitals, according to Globonews.
37 Dougbr2006 : Just saw on TV close up of TAil and it is PR-MBK A320 it looks like there are no survivors as the rescue service ambulances none have left the scene a
38 LipeGIG : The worst... the building can collapse...
39 ULMFlyer : CGH is like an aircraft carrier where the sea is the city. At the end of the runways there's nowhere to go except down the embankment towards the bui
40 LipeGIG : Seems they are workers of the TAM building.
41 Post contains images Tomascubero : Looks real bad   R.I.P and I pray that there are survivors, I really hope to hear better news. Tomas.[Edited 2007-07-18 01:31:48]
42 Post contains links and images Interpaul : View Large View MediumPhoto © Carlos A. Morillo Doria
43 Halophila : Oh dear, doesn't look good...
44 Post contains images CygnusChicago : I am in Sao Paulo today, can see the crash site from the window. Fires have been immense. My condolences to the victims
45 LAXspotter : Sad day today, thoughts and prayers with the family Just a question tho? Was this aircraft landing on the shorter of the two runways? It seems to me t
46 Incitatus : Yes indeed. That is the price to pay for downtown airports with no room for mishaps. Everybody loves convenience but there is a price to pay for safe
47 Cartenz : Eight survivors have been rescued so far according to MSNBC.
48 PPSMA : SAD! SAD! Brazilian Authorities are to be blamed, no doubt about it. It´s something that was going to happen, sooner or later. My prayers to all the
49 Manu : I also heard on MSNBC that the runway did not yet have the rain groves in it, which help clear rain water and increase traction. Interesting facts. St
50 Post contains links Allstarflyer : Yeah, that's what I'm seeing on Foxnews just behind me here at work. From what somebody who apparently lives there says . . . . . . FoxNews might be
51 Orl777 : Anyone has new Info about here is very difficult to find information.. Does anybody have the reg number of the A320? Any confirmed Fatalities? Pretty
52 Dudubsb : According to media reports, the plane was using the main runway (the longer one). The gas station is adjacent to the TAM Express building. No one rea
53 ULMFlyer : It was landing on the main runway which was reopened after reforms (but not grooving) on 6/29. It seems the gas station is right next to the building
54 Tavong : No words......God bless the victimas nad their families....... No words..... Gus SKBO
55 Post contains links Allstarflyer : Reuters confirms at least one dead, and says the government has no word on other casualties. Sounds like they're drawing from Globo News http://www.re
56 Post contains images Spacecadet : Foxnews just said this was an accident waiting to happen due to "short runways" of "only 8,500 to 9,000 feet". And they presented this as fact, not sp
57 Loalq : No info on the number of passengers in this flight yet. It was said that the plane could take as much as 170 pax. One death already officially confime
58 Tomascubero : Just a matter of minutes for someone to blow it as usual, press will never learn... Right now both CNN and CNN in Spanish have taken the images off,
59 Iwok : I hope and pray for survivors! iwok
60 Dudubsb : It is interesting to see how TAM is dealing with the accident. They just updated their web page: "Information on the "incident" in Congonhas" (free tr
61 ULMFlyer : Indeed. Many internet sources list it as 6362 ft long, a little shorter than MDW's 04R/22L at 6446 and 13C/31C at 6522 ft.
62 Dudubsb : Well, TAM web page was updated again. They are finally treating the accident like a real accident....[Edited 2007-07-18 01:59:19]
63 Hiflyer : Give Fox a few minutes to catch up...then they will say it was terrorism...sigh Serious question....aren't minimums changed for grooved/non grooved r
64 KhelmDTW : This date is not a good one for aviation. I hope everyone is okay
65 Fanofjets : Very sad news indeed! I just read the report - my condolences for the victims and their families.
66 CV990 : Hi! That's a very sad day indeed for TAM, an airline that I respect a lot for the way they've been consistently growing and also the great service the
67 Post contains images PPSMA : Hi everybody! This is to try and give those who are not familiar with the area of the airport AN IDEA of where the A320 crashed! Photo taken from Goog
68 Hoya : In all fairness, al-Jazeera, BBC World aren't coverning either. CNN International is showing images non-stop now. I pray for survivors, and my condol
69 Spacecadet : It can mean a minor event, but it can also mean an event that you don't yet know the magnitude of. It's a generic term meaning "something that happen
70 Post contains images Cmtehori : That´s correct! Rwy 17R/35L for SBSP is 1940 meters long (plus 60m stopway). 1940 x 3,28 and you get 6363 feet! Just for the records, the airport wa
71 Post contains links B757300 : I'll pop in from self imposed exile. http://www.cnn.com/video/live/live.html?stream=stream1 CNN is streaming live video. Works in IE but I couldn't ge
72 Post contains images KPDX : Oh great, it ruins my day when things like this happen. Plus makes my slight fear of flying even worse.... Lets hope for survivors and RIP to the vict
73 Loalq : Great graph, PPSMA, thanks for it. Seems that the aircraft actually turned left while trying to stop (or to takeoff again, maybe?).
74 AF086 : It was indeed PR-MBK arriving from POA as flight JJ3054. On board 170 adult passengers, 1 baby and crew. God bless the souls who perished. Also it's
75 Loalq : Just in: Inside the Airbus 155 pax + 6 crew + 14 TAM employees = 175 total confirmed by TAM. Lets hope for the best...[Edited 2007-07-18 02:16:59]
76 Amritpal : thoughts and prayers for the passengers.
77 VbeltraJJ : Just to say...JJMNGR used to work into this building....someone got any news?
78 BNinMSY : My thoughts and prayers with those onboard and their families/friends. Truly sad. Also, remembering this day in history and those aboard TW #800.
79 Post contains links Jj : http://www.clarin.com has some video footage... in spanish...
80 Post contains links and images CMD777300ER : What I find interesting is that ULMFlyer, post 61, says that the runway was 6362 ft. long and MDW's is 6446 ft long. MDW lands 757-300s, which are big
81 Post contains images Cmtehori : Thanks for the correction AF086 you´re 100% right! A little bit more information about this particular jet It was delivered to TACA on 03/25/1998 as
82 Starlionblue : Isn't it a bit early to be suggesting factors?
83 CMD777300ER : Starlionblue, Isn't it just natural to wonder how it happened?
84 Post contains links and images RichM : Another photo of PR-MBK when it was with Pacific Airlines as VN-A168. (assuming this aircraft was the actual aircraft involved) MyAviation.net photo:
85 LuisKMIA : Very sad. A few months ago, GOL's 737s were banned from landing in rainy weather because of concerns of skidding/overshoorting. I've used congnhas and
86 Starlionblue : Fair enough. And I must admit you didn't come out and say something like "The crash was caused by..." No doubt the news media has already beaten us t
87 LipeGIG : Up to now, reports from press says all survivors are from the building but need to be confirmed. Felipe
88 KSYR : Lets hope for the best...certainly doesn't look good though. CNN was live-feeding in a Brazilian TV news station on its website as part of its crash c
89 Loalq : As a side info, Pantanal flight 4763 skidded off the same runway earlier this week (without fatalities). It is said that the cause was PERHAPS that at
90 LipeGIG : SDU in fact is far safe than CGH because they are very well grooved. Even become the shorter one, this fact besides it's located limited by the sea,
91 VbeltraJJ : At least, the last time I saw him working, he used to work at this building. I had other friends working there. I used to work at hangar II and we hav
92 Lmpinto : Television reports TAM informed 156 passengers, 6 crew and 14 dead-heading TAM personnel were on the plane. At least 3 casualties from the building; 1
93 Usatoeze : This is indeed a sad day for aviation. My condolences to all the passenger's familes, and all of those affiiliated with the excellent airline TAM and
94 FMAL : I'm sure this has been mentioned before, but I'm not going to read through 91 posts, but I must speak my mind. Finally, the overwhelming corruption an
95 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : BBC is now reporting it BBC Glad to see Globo News is available in English. Here's some info on CGH (although, the site says the "information may not
96 Post contains links Barney Captain : MSNBC is looking at the red a white lettering that reads "TAM Express" and stating that it's the fuselage and that there must be many survivors.......
97 TreeHillRavens : TAM Airlines Representative told CNN reporter that there are 175 people onboard. - 6 crew - 14 TAM employees - 155 passengers
98 Post contains images LipeGIG : The building collapsed...
99 Post contains links PYP757 : Looking at this picture, there does not appear to be much fuselage left intact. Just part of the tail. Looks hopeless to me. http://www.smh.com.au/ne
100 Post contains links MeridianBUF : http://www.estadao.com.br/cidades/not_cid20162,0.htm 9 survivors, not sure if from plane or ground. Either way not good. Brasilian bureocracy and poli
101 Post contains images Legoguy : TAM reporting 176 onboard the flight according to CNN It seems to vary between 174 and 176 onboard the flight. CNN just mentioned 200 dead as said by
102 FMAL : Has the entire building collapsed? I am so pissed off right now.....I feel that a lot of people within INFRAERO and the government are responsible fo
103 Isitsafenow : Think the crew could have touched down a little far down the runway and ran out of concrete in the rain? Air France in Toronto?? Southwest in the snow
104 RichM : " target=_blank>http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19815779/ I think you're right. The TAM Express logo which can be seen in the footage, looks more like a b
105 VbeltraJJ : TAM Express we can see is part of the building. The only part of the fuselage we can see is the tail.
106 PU752 : my god I just found out, lets hope we can have a good amount of survivors.
107 FMAL : Guys, the TAM Express logo indeed is that of the building, the building that was hit is the TAM cargo Depot at CGH...the news here report that fireme
108 TBCITDG : What a day! The topic of conversation every time I went past this airport was "such a location?!?" "what if something where to go wrong?" My thoughts
109 DAL1044 : Video on CNN is saying the local fire dept is saying 200 dead. I pray they are wrong about such a large number .
110 AlexPorter : Apparently the photo doesn't exist anymore? Searching for it doesn't turn it up either. What the heck is going on with that? Did they snatch it away?
111 Post contains images Tonytifao : Sad Sad day guys My prayers are with all the families Here are some notes I've been hearing (please correct if I'm wrong): - Some rain, not that bad -
112 Post contains images TBCITDG : Deaths have just been confirmed on CNN. It has become Brazil's worst air traffic disaster.
113 PU752 : I just heard that too, I hope this wont become the newest word accident in brazilian history.
114 FMAL : Out of curiosity, how long did it take before Constantino Jr. addressed the press on Gol's accident? The news is full of people complaining that both
115 Skoker : "Incident" in US English means the same as "event" or occurrence. Both a plane crashing into an ocean and a flight running out of Diet Coke are consi
116 MIASkies : According to CNN.Com broadcast... 200 People fatalities, as of right now no survivors from the flight; fatalities include people on the ground. My pra
117 SBN580 : Speedbirdie, the early evidence is on the lack of grooving in the runway. Here of all places, we will discuss this. Most of us are not trying to be a
118 AirSpare : " target=_blank>http://www.estadao.com.br/interativi...ia=38 I think these photos sum it up. Images from hell.
119 A340313X : bbc news 'up to 200 people may have died' from a brazilian news centre.
120 HeliflyerPDC : I pray for survivors, and my condolences to the victims and their family and friends.
121 PU752 : wow, I find this hard to believe
122 TreeHillRavens : According to CNN, this has been confirmed ... This is very bad.
123 Dellatorre : Unfortunately, this was an announced tragedy, that could have happened anytime. Many aviation specialits in Brazil are reporting the runway, which had
124 Tonytifao : Will all flights be transfered to GRU today and tomorrow? How is this taking care of?
125 LGA777 : Not sure if the site removed it or the photographer did, was a great shot of same aircraft, same airport, same runway, same conditions, lots and lots
126 Starlionblue : A go around then? It is possible but I think it's too early to say for certain unless someone heard it on the radio. Note that the following is not s
127 Dellatorre : What a ridiculous statement.
128 Sampa737 : I've heard via CNN that flights will be rerouted to GRU, Sao Jose dos Campos, Campinas, Santos. There's no way one airport could handle all that traff
129 TBCITDG : Just read that yesterday there was an incident with a PANTANAL aircraft. It too went off the runway after landing in the same airpoirt. Can any one el
130 Post contains images TUNisia : Larry King on CNN just said at least 200 confirmed dead. RIP TUNisia
131 Starlionblue : A bit premature to be assigning blame wouldn't you say? All we know for sure at this point is that a plane crashed and there's a rather nasty fire. F
132 Clickhappy : The shot was removed at the request of the photographer.
133 Khobar : "We saw the plane go straight down the runway. It didn't manage to stop and went into the avenue. It went by so fast that we thought it was taking of
134 777fan : I'm normally suspicious of anything that comes out of his mouth (he's practically senile) but CNN's site now reports the Sao Paolo FD as saying "at l
135 LGA777 : Thanks for the info Clichappy. LGA777
136 LipeGIG : Any news on JJMNGR ? I pray for the 200 people dead on the worst day of Brazilian Aviation.
137 Starlionblue : Some CNN.com clippings. A Brazilian court in February banned large jets at the busy airport because of safety concerns, The Associated Press reported.
138 BravoGolf : Seems like everyone is blaming the airport operator for not grooving the runway. If I was reading the posts correctly, the runway was just repaved. If
139 VbeltraJJ : Nope, no news from him. I have a friend who is on a hospital near my house but he is unreachable right now. This guy worked near JJMNGR but we can not
140 LTBEWR : It is a sad day for aviation in Brazil and now they have had their 2 most deadly accidents in their history in less than 1 year. That this accident wa
141 Post contains links Tonytifao : Do you guys think the pilot tried to turn the plane to the left so he wouldn't go straight into the small cliff? Is that where that cliff/incline is l
142 Post contains links ULMFlyer : Thanks for the info BG. After a little search, I found an article in O Globo [subscribers and in Portuguese only], where a regional manager for Infra
143 A340313X : Sky news (UK) reports the Governor of Sao Paolo has confirmed that rescuers believe no-one could have survived. How awful.
144 HNLtrades118 : My God, what a horrible tragedy, especially in the wake of the Gol 1907-Embraer disaster last year. Thanks to all who posted information, but I can't
145 PU752 : Too early, but probably the pilots didnt have total control of the plane if it skidded off the rwy. Hard to know.
146 Post contains links and images Allstarflyer : CNN is the only one saying this currently, it seems. Huh? Agreed. BBC, FoxNews, Bloomberg and Reuters all report lower numbers of injured/fatalities,
147 EIRules : So very very sad. May all of the victims rest in peace and may all of our thoughts be with their family & friends at this time
148 Starlionblue : Good info. And furthermore, it's not like the absence of grooving comes as a surprise at the moment of landing. These things are well known and docum
149 Post contains links Gomuppets : Saw an article in the NY Times about it, but the heading was a bit misleading: "Passenger Skids Off Runway in Brazil" http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/1
150 A340313X : Sky news: Financial Times correspondant in Sao Paolo reports the pilot attempted to take off again after realising the aircraft would not stop. One of
151 FMAL : This doesn't clear INFRAERO on allowing operations on a runway that was closed down to begin with to make it safer to land on it during rain. The con
152 CO777DAL : Why would someone build a gas station near the end of a runway? so sad....
153 BlueElephant : I just wanted to say RIP to those involved, Its a terribly tragedy... And i'm also very unhappy with the fact that neither, CNN, MSNBC or even Fox is
154 D L X : Ask the folks in Burbank that question too.
155 Post contains links Lostturttle : Bloomberg February 11th 2004 http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...news&tkr=TAMM4:BZ&sid=aVCsxPnejz3U "Brazil's Ocean Air May Halt Flights on Sao Pa
156 TBCITDG : Ask the folks in AEP as well!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Remember the LAPA incident?
157 A340313X : Blue Elephant, sky news (UK) aer doing a better job than the bbc right now.
158 BravoGolf : Two additional questions I would have about the repaving job. Is the runway crowned? Higher in the center than the sides? Does Brazil require the same
159 FMAL : Guys, There is a A.net member (JJMNGR) who, according to some people here, works or at least worked at the very building that was hit by the A320 Any
160 LipeGIG : FMAL, Not yet, i'm trying to reach some other JJ frieds in order to obtain his phone. Felipe
161 777fan : CNN is going with "at least 200 dead" on the front of their website and is quoting rescuers as saying there doesn't appear to be anyway passengers cou
162 FMAL : Thanks Lipe, it would be great to find out that a fellow A.netter is safe.
163 PU752 : Keep us informed please, thanks!
164 787EWR : A very sad day. RIP to the victims and peace and strength to their loved ones. I would imagine the airport will remain closed until such time as Brazi
165 Tonytifao : QUESTIONSSSSSSSSSSS! 1. What time was the incident? 2. What will happen to Congonhas now? Closed indefinetely? Hope JJMNGR is safe!
166 Post contains images Vasu : Story now prominent on BBC News website, but no mention on BBC News 24 Channel. My thoughts are with the friends and families of the passengers
167 Mrocktor : It is actually well off to the left, as can be seen in the Google Earth picture in reply 67. The pilot aparently maneuvered significantly, perhaps tr
168 Starlionblue : Not trying to be flippant here but the answer would be "They assumed aircraft would use the actual runway". Also if you look at the Google Earth pic
169 BlueElephant : Well thats good, but we don't get that much here either, All we get is stuff about Anna Nicole Smith's Death, and Paris Hilton getting out of Jail. D
170 Eddieho : Why do pilots attempt landing in "heavy rain".... why????? (PS. I was on the Air France 358 plane cash - same thing, but everyone survived).
171 Vasu : Not sure about that, but BBC are reporting that it is now closed to 737-700, -800 and f100
172 Post contains links Vasu : http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/6337217.stm
173 Vasu : Please ignore the above, I realised it was an old story!
174 Corsair1107 : Very sad. Such senseless tragedies can touch so many lives. Prayers to the families.
175 Starlionblue : "Heavy rain" is a highly subjective term. Water in itself is not an issue, but traction on a runway is. Winds are much more of a risk factor in any c
176 Ebs757 : cnn reporting everyone on the plane dead and 24 people on the ground dead. Very sad.. What negligence on the airports part. My sincere condolences.
177 Allstarflyer : And O'Hare - there's a Thornton's beyond the end of 32L on Wolf Rd. -R
178 Ilikeflight : My condolences to the families of the lost ones and may they R.I.P
179 Acey : Not every day does an airplane come ripping through said gas station. Not saying it's perfectly fine, but there are probably lots of airports with ga
180 San747 : Wow! It really saddens me to hear that... I'm not sure of the entire story, I've been skimming through the replies, so if anyone could kind of paraph
181 Starlionblue : Again, there is no way of knowing anything like that at this time.
182 PU752 : 12 people dead on ground, folha.com.br stated.
183 Acey : From what I understand, the plane tried to land in heavy rain, runway was just over 6,300 feet long, went off the end, crossed a highway at the botto
184 Post contains links MPLSflyer : http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americ...ash/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
185 LipeGIG : It's a kind of situation that i'm trying to avoid but the situation seems to be the same as WTC plane crashes. Not so many fuel, but some... an oven
186 Post contains links MPLSflyer : http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/americ...ash/index.html?eref=rss_topstories
187 Khobar : Unfortunately, accidents all too often make perfect sense, once the facts are understood. We can only hope that the causes are identified and the pro
188 Acey : I'm not sure I'm understanding you correctly, but this plane was in the process of landing after what can be assumed to have been a normal flight, ac
189 Cubastar : A LOT of airports (particularly close-in airports) have gas stations at or near the airport perimeter. Right here in Dallas, Love Field (DAL) has sev
190 Acey : Exactly, you're confirming my point. The others were criticising the fact that CGH, BUR, and ORD had a gas station near the end of the runway. As wit
191 Post contains images EZEIZA : I was just about to post this as well. When airports are located in the middle of populated areas there is little margin for error. The LAPA accident
192 Post contains images PPVRA : Not again. . . Hope JJMNGR is safe.
193 Cubastar : Absolutely! After I posted, I thought perhaps you might misunderstand what I said. Obviously, you didn't. Thanks.
194 Donzilasse : Lipe, as always a pleasure to talk to you even if this is a tragic moment for everyone. Did they land towards the big street today and did they actual
195 MilesDependent : Huh? With the WTC crashes the planes were absolutely packed with fuel, as the crashes occurred at the start of trans-con flights.
196 San747 : If it hit a gas station, fuel very much played a part here... the aircraft fuel may not have so much, but hit a gas station with a plane and I can im
197 Elvis777 : Howdy all, It is indeed a tragic event. Here is to those that take to the skies and to their families.... This does appear to be similar to the WN 737
198 Post contains links Dudubsb : According to the Commander of the Brazilian Air Force, tower employees have confirmed that the aircraft landed on the correct segment of the runway, b
199 Post contains images Mexicana757 : Sad to hear this happened. My thoughts are with the families of the victims. [Edited 2007-07-18 06:00:11]
200 Acey : Certainly. I'm just doing a quick approximation in my head, but all four flights probably took off with well over 55,000 pounds of fuel for their 5+
201 Etops1 : the sw 737 that skidded off the runway was not in las . it was in burbank california. by the way. my condolences to the families of the people involve
202 ZKSUJ : An unfortunate event for the industry and the families involved. I wish the relatives and friends of the deceased well.
203 PPVRA : The flight was to continue onwards from CGH without refueling, so there must have been a considerable amount of fuel on board. That, of course, makes
204 Acey : 18:50 local time, or 20:50 GMT, or 16:40 EDT. We definitely don't know if it's the "same thing" yet. In no way am I trying to discount your knowledge
205 Starlionblue : Even at an airport in the middle of the desert if you skid off the runway you are in trouble. Sure there will probably be no ground casualties but st
206 Post contains images PPVRA : I haven't read this in any big newspapers, but apparently the pilots did try to abort landing (they stated it as "confirmed").
207 Starlionblue : Interesting wrinkle. However "confirmed" by the media a few hours after the accident normally means "not really confirmed". I know I am cynical but w
208 KLM685 : What a sad thing! RIP to everyone involved in this accident. I just got home and saw the images on the main news program here in Mexico. I was shocked
209 EZEIZA : Of course, but when skidding off the rwy, the greater the number of obstacles the greater the chances of the plane catching fire and blowing up. Look
210 TrijetsRMissed : What a sad day for aviation and Brazil. An unfortunate past year for Brazil for that matter. I would much rather be reading posts that were reminiscin
211 PPVRA : Agree, but it's a defense news-site a bit more technically inclined. But we'll see. . .
212 Post contains images Mir : Quite a tragedy. RIP to those who were lost. FoxNews is based in New York. If that's how they feel about 8,500-9,000ft runways, I hope they're never p
213 Ward86IND : Looks to me like this crash is the result a lot of untimely factors adding up, like most other crashes. You have an A320 that has to be near max landi
214 3201 : There's a NOTAM out for CGH: J0872/07 - RWY 17L/35R CLSD DUE SER GROOVING 18 JUL 03:00 2007 UNTIL 22 JUL 09:00 2007 JUL 18 0300/0830 19 TIL 22 0200/0
215 Acey : Someone said it was tankering for an onward flight. I suppose we just don't know yet.
216 Post contains links LipeGIG : TAM has just released the list.... http://www.taminforma.com.br/noticia.aspx?id=1418 In the end seems to be the list of TAM staff on board. Felipe
217 Post contains images PPSMA : Hi everybody, In a time like this when we all are still trying to make out some sense of this senseless, tragic accident I wanted to point out that I
218 Post contains links NAV20 : Agree that there are likely to have been a combination of circumstances, and that there is far too little information available to make any judgments.
219 Cloudyapple : Questions for the investigators: Was this runway on which the plane skidded grooved after resurfacing? Was there a NOTAM or AIP SUP about the conditi
220 AndrewUber : Why was this photo removed from the database?? Our thoughts and prayers are with those families tonight.
221 Post contains links TACAA320 : " SAO PAULO, Brazil -- Scores of people apparently were killed Tuesday in the crash of a Brazilian airliner at Sao Paulo's airport. The Tam airlines j
222 Acey : Answer: I believe that has been answered already and the answer is no, because several months must pass before the runway is hard enough (after being
223 NAV20 : Cloudyapple, see PPSMA's very helpful Post 67 and Google Earth image above. The final crash was well to the left of the runway line - actually in lin
224 AndrewUber : I apologize, I didn't see that, thanks for clarifying.
225 AirTranTUS : Exactly. The AA MD-80 overrun at LIT in 2001 (?) had the fact that the pilots did not deploy the spoilers as a main cause. The plane was moving too q
226 Kaitak : PT-MBK seems to have been a very new aircraft; not listed in 2007 JP? When was it delivered? With regard to the ban imposed by the Brazilian judge, I
227 Teme82 : This is indeed sad day for aviation in Brazil. RIP to those who lost their lives on this terrible accident. I do hope that there is proper investigati
228 Post contains images Miamix707 : The gas station in Le Jeune Rd next to MIA is near the end of runway 8R. IIRC it's slightly to the right but still close enough. So the F100s, 737s a
229 Post contains links and images Kaitak : PT-MBK, A320-233 is LN 789, previously operated by TACA as N454TA (delivered March 1998). Also served for a time with Pacific Airlines of Vietnam. Del
230 Post contains images Emrecan : What a bad news to start a day I've just heard this bad news.. RIP to all people on board...
231 PDXflyer31 : Wow, what a horrible crash. I can't think of another crash in history that was this deadly on landing. Just horrible.
232 Post contains images TACAA320 : When I try to expand this picture I got the following legend: "There is no photo in our database with that ID number." I flew such plane several time
233 ULMFlyer : Just to dispel the AF 358 @ YYZ scenario, this was the (summarized) METAR around the time of the accident (19:00 local, 22:00Z): Temp (C/F) 15 (59 );
234 Post contains links DeC : Most awful news to start off the day......so sad. R.I.P to all the victims involved. Here's the BBC news' article with PHOTOS http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/
235 Post contains links TACAA320 : Deleted at photographer request. What Happened To This TAM 320 Photo? (by D L X Jul 18 2007 in Site Related)
236 Post contains links PPSMA : Here´s a link to a short computer animation of the accident: http://www1.folha.uol.com.br/folha/cotidiano/ult95u312781.shtml Cheers!
237 RAFVC10 : God bless their souls! Let's pray for the death passengers, for the hurted people and for all families that today will start again their lives without
238 Mir : Unfortunate, but understandable. You never know where those things can turn up - it wouldn't be surprising if someone tried to pass it off as a photo
239 TACAA320 : Absolutely right. That's definitely a high possibility.
240 USAFHummer : Just wondering, how far of a drop / how steep is the drop between the end of the runway and the base of the warehouse and gas station where the A320
241 Toulouse : My God, what awful news. May all the dead Rest In Peace and let our prayers and best wishes be with the families and fiends of all those killed and in
242 Post contains links DeC : " Brazilian plane crash 'kills 200' Firefighters tackle a blaze after a jet crashes in Sao Paulo The plane skidded across a main road before hitting a
243 EK345 : RIP. May they all rest with the angels. EK345
244 Cricket : RIP to all the victims... Landing on a wet runway during heavy rain when you can literally feel the tires struggling for grip and the thrust reversers
245 Post contains links Haddock0815 : News today on German Yahoo!: http://de.news.yahoo.com/ap/20070718...-170-tote-bei-flugz-1be00ca_1.html Experten haben schon länger gewarnt, dass es b
246 Post contains links and images ULMFlyer : I don't know the details, but this photo might give you an idea. View Large View MediumPhoto © Renato Viani
247 Post contains links Alessandro : http://aviation-safety.net/database/record.php?id=20070717-0 Claim 15 bystanders killed on the ground. May all whom lost their lives rest in peace..
248 USAFHummer : Thanks...very helpful!! The overhead shots on Google Earth don't really provide any clue of the vertical dimension, but that pic puts it in perspecti
249 UAL777UK : Shocking, my thoughts fo to all those who have lost their loved ones. The story seems to have missed all the early additions of the press over here bu
250 Post contains links and images TurkishWings : I woke up after a great sleep, made my morning coffee and saw this on the internet... Very bad news indeed.. May they all rest in peace.... Seeing the
251 Post contains links Burkhard : A sad day for aviation - my thoughts are with the families of the vitctims. I read under http://www.mail.com/NewsArticle.aspx...icleId=1140895&page=1&
252 Post contains links LatinTraveller : There are videos popping up all over YouTube about this flight... both from the news and amateur... http://youtube.com/watch?v=-mFtyaYL64A
253 TBCITDG : Any news regarding JJMNGR yet? Hope he is ok!
254 Trintocan : Oh no, such a horrible crash! This is not great news to wake up to. BBC are saying up to 200 dead, including everybody aboard the A320-200. Brazil is
255 Post contains links Wjcandee : Hmmmm....curious. I was surprised by the relative volume at Brazil's busiest airport. "Congonhas is Brazil's busiest airport used by around 47,000 pas
256 Post contains links Maersk737 : Some news from Airbus here: http://www.airbus.com/crisis/index.html Peter
257 Post contains images Nohag : Hi all, First of all my condolonces to all the families, friends and relatives of the people involved in this tragic accident. This is just another Go
258 Post contains links and images Birdy : Terrible tragedy and considering the position and area of this airport it was inevitable that something like that will happen Congonhas looks more lik
259 ZakHH : If the plane landed on 35L, the incident happened on the far end of the runway. There is something that looks like a gas station behind the end of th
260 Airtebiong : What a terrible news to wake up to.. RIP to those who perished and condolences to their families...
261 ULMFlyer : True, but bear in mind that it only operates narrowbodies. And my impression of regular ops is that they don't use both parallel runways simultaneous
262 BBADXB : May all those who perished rest in peace. May all those who lost a loved one find strength and sympathy. And may lessons be learnt so as not to see th
263 Post contains images Skyman : Yes it is very sad. Once again something terrible had to happen before things change for a short time. But economics are starting to get more importa
264 DeC : Notice how ironic are the comments of the photographer and what happened there in comparison with today's tragedy. Seeing that and all the photos fro
265 DeC :
266 DeC : Footage taken right after the crash. The comments of the video poster were made early, just after the crash as well so this is why they're are inaccur
267 Post contains images VivaGunners : This is very sad, expecially if the runway wasn't safe and noboby did care about that too much. This accident reminds me about the SK crash in Milan L
268 IDISA : My thoughts goes now to the families of those who died in this tragic event. It's probably too early to get conclusions but it seems another example o
269 ThirtyEcho : My God; if you can't STOP, then GO!!! I can't count the number of go-arounds I have elected to take: deer, cows and jackrabbits on the runway, a car o
270 Mir : Ah, if only it were that simple. Once the reversers are out, it takes some time for the engines to spool down, get out of reverse, and then spool up
271 ZakHH : Your logic sounds way too easy to me. You basically say it yourself - you have to be aware of the problem, before you can try to fix it. The captain
272 ThirtyEcho : "This isn't little pistons we're talking about." You are insulting my experience. It is well known that this airport is substandard in heavy rain and
273 Post contains images WINGS : This is a very sad day for Aviation. My thoughts are with family and friends of the lost ones. It would also seem that TAM and even Brazilian aviation
274 BuyantUkhaa : Seems they may have tried the same thing, it's amazing how that 737 ended up at almost exactly the same place (i.e. left of centre line, and onto the
275 PMN : Yet again, a thread concerning such tragic circumstances turns into a point scoring exercise on A.Net. What is wrong with some of you people? Paul
276 Mir : Does that experience include A320 or similar sized aircraft? -Mir
277 EZEIZA : That's not entirely correct. Yes it was a F-100 but the crash took place when the plane hit a building after engine problem and tried to return to th
278 Ktachiya : My thoughts go out to the ones that lost their lives and their families. I just finally got time to sit down in front of my computer after a long day
279 AirbusA346 : I take it the aircraft is a WO. Tom.
280 Mrocktor : It was not. Official explanation is that the asphalt had to "cure" for 30 to 45 days before the grooves could be cut. I don't know whether limitation
281 Post contains images AirbusA346 : OK I have just seen a video of it for the first time on Euronews and it looks like a WO. Were there any fatalities? Tom.
282 DAYflyer : A sad day indeed. Prayers to the families.
283 EHHO : Dude, don't be so ignorant when people's lives are involved. Just read the thread......
284 BA0284 : Erm...
285 Post contains links BNE : Part 2 has been started here. TAM Plane Crashed In CGH Part 2 (by BNE Jul 18 2007 in Civil Aviation) Some members on dial up weren't able to keep up w
286 Starlionblue : Sure, if you have all that money lying around. But after the roads, I would improve health care and schools before improving airport safety. Air trav
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