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Third Runway At SEA Nears Completion  
User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2987 times:

Just found this on the front page of The Seattle Times' website...

"Twenty years after the idea emerged, 10 years after the Federal Aviation Administration approved the plans and three years after construction began, Seattle-Tacoma International Airport's third runway is entering its home stretch.

But not until the next sunny day.

Crews and machinery are standing by, waiting until this week's rainy weather disappears, to begin pouring concrete on the 1.6-mile-long runway.

It's a small delay for a project already stalled a decade by legal battles.

"The end is in sight," said John Rothnie, the project's supervisor from the beginning.

The new runway will help decrease air-travel delays during bad weather, said Mark Reis, Sea-Tac's managing director. He said FAA regulations call for 2,500 feet between runways serving streams of incoming and outgoing planes during bad weather. There are only 800 feet between Sea-Tac's current two runways, forcing the airport to decrease its capacity to one stream when visibility is limited."


http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...ews/2003793911_thirdrunway18m.html

Glad to hear the final stages of construction are underway. If they start pouring concrete int he next week, I'll see what I can catch on "film" when I come home next Wednesday morning.


Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineSEAdomer787 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 115 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2978 times:
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I was confused by this article. It states that they hope to have 70 nice days to complete the project by early fall, ready for the first airplane to touch down on the runway in November 2008. Is that year a typo, or does it really take that long to get a runway certified?

User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2870 times:

Quoting SEAdomer787 (Reply 1):
I was confused by this article. It states that they hope to have 70 nice days to complete the project by early fall, ready for the first airplane to touch down on the runway in November 2008. Is that year a typo, or does it really take that long to get a runway certified?

I was wondering the same thing, and in retrospect, I'd have to say that use of misleading language similar to the headline of that article in this thread's title is probably going to tick some people off. All the same, I'd be interested in hearing from anyone who can provide some insight as to why concrete being poured next week isn't going to be catching rubber until next November.

Here's a shot I took on the 4th after departing SEA. The area of the third runway really looks to be taking shape.




Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineAirframeAS From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 14150 posts, RR: 24
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2719 times:

Well, its about time! Good to hear its starting to come to a reality. SEA needs it, badly!


A Safe Flight Begins With Quality Maintenance On The Ground.
User currently offlineHT From Germany, joined May 2005, 6525 posts, RR: 23
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2704 times:

After having poured the concrete, all the electrical installations need to be done. Wiring this is a major task. And connect to the computer systems.
Add to that calibration flights in order to calibrate the ILS once it is installed.
Finally airport charts need to be drawn and made available to pilots.
Quite an amount of work nowadays.

65 years ago, any suitable stretch of concrete (or asphalt/tarmac or grass) could be used as a runway ...
-HT



Carpe diem ! Life is too short to waste your time ! Keep in mind, that today is the first day of the rest of your life !
User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3425 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2685 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 4):
After having poured the concrete,

you also have to let the concrete cure. Not too good if the first 747 landing breaks the runway due to rushing to get the runway into service.


User currently offlineGunsontheroof From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 3509 posts, RR: 9
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2669 times:

Quoting HT (Reply 4):



Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 5):

Pretty obvious answers now that I'm thinking about it. Thanks for the specifics!



Next Flight: 9/17 BFI-BFI
User currently offlineBlackbird1331 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 1894 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 21 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Lots of rain in that area and look at the thickness of the concrete, too much water washes the cement out of the mix. The curing time is far longer than the three day cure for sidewalks. They are lading planes that weight , what, 250,000 lbs. on landing? Ask an engineer what the impact weight equivilent is. Considerably more.


Cameras shoot pictures. Guns shoot people. They have the guns.
User currently offlineRemcor From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 358 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 2553 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 5):
you also have to let the concrete cure. Not too good if the first 747 landing breaks the runway due to rushing to get the runway into service.

Yeah you're right, 28 days is the cure time for typical concrete in order to reach its specified strength. Of course there are all sorts of fancy-shmancy concretes that can cure faster, but a month might be a good estimate.


User currently offlineIFlyATA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2515 times:

Does anyone know why they designated 34L to be 34C, and 16R to be 16C before the new runway was actually complete and operational? They re-designated the runways to be C runways a while back, I think like a year ago...why so far in advance?


ATA - an honestly different airline.
User currently offlineJFK69 From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 1419 posts, RR: 1
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2499 times:

I have only been flying in and out of SEA for the last 3 years. I have never really taxied more than 15-20 minutes. Was their that much of a need for a 3rd runway??? I fly out of JFK where the average wait is more than an hour.......

User currently offlineRoseFlyer From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 9706 posts, RR: 52
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2379 times:

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 10):
I have only been flying in and out of SEA for the last 3 years. I have never really taxied more than 15-20 minutes. Was their that much of a need for a 3rd runway??? I fly out of JFK where the average wait is more than an hour.......

SEA is not in the top 5 or 10 airports in the country in need of a new runway, but it will help. In the winter, there can be arrival delays in the evenings when the field is in IFR conditions. The field goes IFR for part of 44% of the days in a year, so that's quite frequently. SEA is trying to eliminate flow control. SEA is in better shape than say ORD, LGA or EWR, but that doesn't mean that improvements won't help. The Seattle area is growing quite steadily and with time the extra runway will be needed even more. AS has not stopped growing afterall and they put a ton of flights through SEA everyday!



If you have never designed an airplane part before, let the real designers do the work!
User currently offlineB777ER From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 548 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2320 times:

I hope SEA ATC gets the new equipment to help with runway incursions. Having 3 runways all next to each other like that and with them using the new 16R/34L for arrivals, planes will have to taxi across 2 active runways to reach the terminals. Especially during low vis.

User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2248 times:

Quoting IFlyATA (Reply 9):
Does anyone know why they designated 34L to be 34C, and 16R to be 16C before the new runway was actually complete and operational? They re-designated the runways to be C runways a while back, I think like a year ago...why so far in advance?

Basically because of "visual adjustment". The new runway looks like a runway for quite some time now, so the new center runway feels like being "center" already. Same they did/do in ORD with the current renaming

SailorOrion


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2238 times:

Quoting XT6Wagon (Reply 5):
you also have to let the concrete cure. Not too good if the first 747 landing breaks the runway due to rushing to get the runway into service.

So when sections of active runways are relaid at night is a differant process used as that only has a few hours to cure?


User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2229 times:

Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
So when sections of active runways are relaid at night is a differant process used as that only has a few hours to cure?

Mostly that is very special (read: expensive) concrete or asphalt.


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FRA's 07L/25R being resurfaced from concrete to asphalt.

SailorOrion


User currently offlineScouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3398 posts, RR: 9
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2222 times:

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 15):
Mostly that is very special (read: expensive) concrete or asphalt.

Isn't everything that's "special" expensive!

This has got me thinking about the episode of the BBCs programme "airport" (about LHR) and they showed what the airfield manager called the "Whacky Races" of contractors vehicles charging onto the runway as the last plane of the night was still taxiing away - they were almost digging it up from under the planes wheels Big grin


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3425 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 2219 times:

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 15):
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 14):
So when sections of active runways are relaid at night is a differant process used as that only has a few hours to cure?

Mostly that is very special (read: expensive) concrete or asphalt.

Its also possible to either overbuild the runway or place temporary "de-rate" on the runway as needed. Most concretes gain a respectable % of thier strength within a few hours. So a runway that completely dry is rated for a 744 at MLW, could handle 737's well before it could handle said 744 without damage. Or you overbuild it such that you only need that fraction of strength to take the punishment. Most "special" concrete applications follow that approch since re-doing concrete is far more expensive than even a massive overbuilding. Remains on a new runway you might as well pour the runway first, then do the other stuff around it. Cheaper, faster, and if it leaves you with a stronger runway... who's going to complain?


User currently offlineHowSwedeitis From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 2179 times:
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With SEA as my homeport, it's good to hear that the runway is coming along. 9 people were arrested on Thursday morning who lived in some low-income apartments in the runway's proximity. (They refused to leave.) Now, if I could get some good shots of planes coming and going I wouldn't want to leave either!!  Wink

Quoting JFK69 (Reply 10):
I have never really taxied more than 15-20 minutes. Was their that much of a need for a 3rd runway???

Spotting from the parking garage (Floor 8!) you can see the looooong line of airplanes coming in, and taking off. Often, a jumbo has just lifted as one touches down.  crowded 



Heja Sverige!!
User currently offlineIFlyATA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 242 posts, RR: 3
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 2133 times:

Quoting SailorOrion (Reply 13):

Basically because of "visual adjustment". The new runway looks like a runway for quite some time now, so the new center runway feels like being "center" already.

Good point. Quick side story - listening to LiveATC last week, on the Seattle Tower feed, there was an interesting exchanged related to this...

Northwest flight: Seattle Tower, NWAXXX on final runway 34L
Tower: NWAXXX, wind calm, runway 34C, cleared to land.
Northwest flight: Okay ma'am, it looks like the left but if you want to call it the center...
Tower: (sound irritated) It's the Center...

He might have been talking about the infamous taxiway "tango" at SEA  Wink



ATA - an honestly different airline.
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