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DL To Drop ILG Service After Sept. 5  
User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4524 times:

Looks like ILG will be once again without scheduled airline service after Sept. 5.

http://www.delawareonline.com/apps/p...70719/NEWS/707190352/1003/BUSINESS


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
24 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4493 times:

No surprise here.

Cost structure and available flights alone did more than anything to kill service.

Drive 20 more minutes and get to PHL!



GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineNational757 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 720 posts, RR: 1
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 4452 times:

Looks like this is the perfect airport for an Allegiant or SkyBus type of operation. Wonder if we will see either of them at ILG any time soon?


Formula 1 Grand Prix Trips: YUL '08, MEL '09, BCN '10, SIN '11, and LGW '12
User currently offlineApodino From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 4287 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 4075 times:

Hmmm, article also says they are pulling out of ERI, BGM, and MTH.

I think Delta could have made this work, They didn't market the service well enough. I agree with a statement in the article that said, people will travel out of ILG for 30-50 dollars more just to avoid PHL. I think this is true in a lot more places then airlines realize, and they have some huge untapped markets that could be real moneymakers.


User currently offlineTsnamm From United States of America, joined May 2005, 629 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 20 hours ago) and read 3967 times:

ILG is also closer to most to the DelMarVa peninsula as well as NE Maryland, than any other airport. Surely between Wilmington, the southern PHL suburbs and this area ILG service should work, if properly marketed.

[Edited 2007-07-20 15:48:55]

User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 17 hours ago) and read 3865 times:

Quoting Tsnamm (Reply 4):
Surely between Wilmington, the southern PHL suburbs and this area ILG service should work, if properly marketed.

... and properly priced.

Passengers might be willing pay a little more for the convenience of flying out of ILG (~$50) but NOT a significantly higher amount... especailly if the same airline operates out of PHL and/or BWI.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3786 times:
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When DL terminates the DL Connection service to ILG, it will no longer serve all 50 states.

User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 15 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

I knew this wouldnt work.....thse types of cites cannot support airservice when a large airport like PHL is nearby. People prefer to drive 25 miles and fly nonstopo rather than connect on a RJ thru ATL.

I hope SLE doesnt meet the same fate.


User currently offlineMicstatic From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 781 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 14 hours ago) and read 3735 times:

One thing to consider guys. Delta is putting planes where they are MOST profitable. One can't assume New Castle was a failure. Delta just realized they could make more money using those planes somewhere else. I do realize load factors weren't ideal...


S340,DH8,AT7,CR2/7,E135/45/170/190,319,320,717,732,733,734,735,737,738,744,752,762,763,764,772,M80,M90
User currently offlineMtnWest1979 From United States of America, joined Nov 2005, 2473 posts, RR: 1
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3663 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
I hope SLE doesnt meet the same fate

At least not until all the incentives expire and money dries up.



"If it ain't broke, don't fix it!"
User currently offlineRobertS975 From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 947 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 12 hours ago) and read 3650 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

It is entirely possible that there was a travel bank subsidy on this route to defray costs, and once the subsidy terminates, the route goes away.

User currently offlineVega From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 11 hours ago) and read 3628 times:

I always thought this service would have had a better chance if DL flew one flight to CVG or JFK instead of both to ATL. It didn't really offer any incentive to anyone flying East of STL and North of CLT. Who wants to backtrack through ATL to get to ORD or BOS or DTW, etc.. I assume they thought the majority of their loads would be non-stop PHL-ATL Metro flyers who would alternately choose ILG - although that seems a bit unreasonable since DL has 9-10 daily PHL-ATL non-stops of which 7 are 757s. Guess it was just an experiment.

User currently offlineDelawareUSA From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 107 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 3458 times:

too bad Delta is backing out. But this is more then a ILG issue. It was the only scheduled flight to Delaware

User currently offlineRampart From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 3147 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3396 times:

Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 6):
When DL terminates the DL Connection service to ILG, it will no longer serve all 50 states.

United had the same thing in the 80s, except that I think they used 727s into ILG. I don't know where they flew in ND, NH, or VT to be able to cover all 50.

Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 7):
I knew this wouldnt work.....thse types of cites cannot support airservice when a large airport like PHL is nearby. People prefer to drive 25 miles and fly nonstopo rather than connect on a RJ thru ATL.

But if you flew DL from PHL you'd still have to transfer in one of their hubs, like ATL or CVG. ILG is just a spoke like PHL for DL and any other airline not hubbed in PHL. Alternative airports do well enough when they are marketed and priced fairly: HPN, ISP, COS, BUR, OAK, PBI, DAL, HOU, TOL, CAK, MHT.

-Rampart


User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 3370 times:

Problems with the service (I flew one way ATL-ILG in February 2007)

1. The car rental counters are next to and more impressive than the Delta Counter.
2. Odd flight times
3. CRJ's used on a route that probably should have been run by an ATR

The flight was mostly empty. In addition to my family, there were several non-revvers. I talked with a few of them and these were people who lived in and around Philly who said that using ILG made it easier for them to do non-rev travel through ATL.

What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service. Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!



You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3830 posts, RR: 7
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3359 times:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
3. CRJ's used on a route that probably should have been run by an ATR

Seriosuly? Why?

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service. Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!

You think itd be simple for a helicopter company to set up agreements with all of the airlines in PHL, open a station in ILG, and fly those pax to the terminal in PHL?


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3331 times:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
What would be REALLY smart would be U.S. Helicopters to set-up shop in ILG with interline agreements in place for ALL airlines at PHL much like they have an agreement with DL for Manhattan-JFK service.

Excuse my ignorance but I thought Manhattan-JFK helicopter service was abandoned following a 1977 crash of one of those copters (under contract w/PA at the time IIRC).

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 14):
Check-in with USH, have bags tagged through and boarding passes for the further journey, and pass through security at ILG. Then fly into say, terminal F and then take a shuttle to wherever you need to go to. But that would be too simple!

As it was mentioned earlier, since DL does not hub out of PHL and not all DL passengers are o/d-ing at ATL; why would anyone add an extra connection/stop WHEN THEY DON'T HAVE TO... especially at PHL? You're forgetting about the "We're number 20 for take-off." that's often associated w/PHL.

You're also forgetting that the primary purpose of ILG service was to avoid the crowds and delays at PHL.



"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3323 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 15):
Seriosuly? Why?

My simple mind assumes that the operating costs (read: fuel costs) of the ATR's is substantially less than that of a CRJ. Assuming that the ATR has a lower CASM than a CRJ, a half-filled CRJ will generate less revenue than a similarly filled ATR. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 15):
You think itd be simple for a helicopter company to set up agreements with all of the airlines in PHL, open a station in ILG, and fly those pax to the terminal in PHL?

The use of the word "simple" in my final sentence was sarcasm. It wouldn't be simple to set it up; it would be damn difficult. But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way to not have to deal with the snaking check-in lines, parking situation, and bullcrap that I have to put-up with from PHL's TSA. These are the precise reason that Delawareans rejoiced when DL decided to drop-in. But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG? That is the attitude that those who rejoiced faced when they tried to book an ILG-ATL-FLL flight, for example and the price was double WN. I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium, but Joe Average Traveler will weather the lines in order to save a buck.

[Edited 2007-07-25 01:00:34]


You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3304 times:

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
Excuse my ignorance but I thought Manhattan-JFK helicopter service was abandoned following a 1977 crash of one of those copters (under contract w/PA at the time IIRC).

Your ignorance is excused  Smile

http://news.delta.com/article_display.cfm?article_id=10701

Quoting PHLBOS (Reply 16):
"We're number 20 for take-off." that's often associated w/PHL.

Precisely why I'd want to check-in and pass security at ILG. A helicopter does not have to wait in line to land or take-off at PHL. It just lands and takes off. The backside of "number 20 for take-off" is number 150 in line at the US check-in and number 200 and back to the parking garage in line at security. Granted, if you have elite status you can bypass both of those lines, but why would I take the hassle of PHL when I can park my car for FREE at ILG and get from curbside to airside in 15 minutes? Once I'm airside at ILG, I'm airside at PHL (or JFK or wherever you want to go to) assuming weather is not an issue.



You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
User currently offlineKcrwFlyer From United States of America, joined May 2004, 3830 posts, RR: 7
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3296 times:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
My simple mind assumes that the operating costs (read: fuel costs) of the ATR's is substantially less than that of a CRJ. Assuming that the ATR has a lower CASM than a CRJ, a half-filled CRJ will generate less revenue than a similarly filled ATR. Please correct me if I am wrong.

On a route that long, the amount of time the ATR will spend in the air starts to offset its lower fuel burn. The longer a route, the less effecient a turboprop is over a jet.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
The use of the word "simple" in my final sentence was sarcasm. It wouldn't be simple to set it up; it would be damn difficult. But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way to not have to deal with the snaking check-in lines, parking situation, and bullcrap that I have to put-up with from PHL's TSA. These are the precise reason that Delawareans rejoiced when DL decided to drop-in. But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG? I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium.

So essentially.. you're paying a premium to not deal with the hassle of long lines and garage parking? Not something id dream up, but that type of thing may work.


User currently offlinePHLBOS From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 7533 posts, RR: 24
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 3287 times:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
But I am willing to pay a $150 premium each way

From one of the StoryChat quotes from the original article:

In this post 911 era, a major carrier such as Delta could have made money by charging only $30-$50 more per roundtrip than out of phl or bwi. People looking for convenience, fewer hassles and free parking probably could of filled an airbus if Delta had adopted competitive pricing.

Note: that the poster stated $30 to $50; NOT $150 to $300 that you're willing to pay.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
But if I can fly cheaper ($200 or more per ticket) on WN from PHL or BWI,why would I want to fly from ILG?

I didn't know WN flew or hubbed out of ATL    ; competition w/FL's the main reason why PHL-ATL & BWI-ATL fares are more reasonably priced.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 17):
I figure that there are many other business travelers who would agree with me and who would want to pay a premium.

That may be you; but not everyone (including one's company/firm, if it's a business-related trip) is willing to pay that much more money. Keep in mind that airlines aren't the only ones trying to keep their costs down.

Edited to add:

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 18):
The backside of "number 20 for take-off" is number 150 in line at the US check-in and number 200 and back to the parking garage in line at security.

While that may be true for US, I don't believe that the number 150 in line applies for DL's PHL operations; not to mention that DL does not use the same terminal & security checkpoints as US.

Quoting Cha747 (Reply 18):
Once I'm airside at ILG, I'm airside at PHL (or JFK or wherever you want to go to) assuming weather is not an issue.

One of the biggest issues regarding delays at PHL is indeed weather-related.

[Edited 2007-07-25 01:12:35]


"TransEastern! You'll feel like you've never left the ground because we treat you like dirt!" SNL Parady ad circa 1981
User currently offlineMilesrich From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 2006 posts, RR: 6
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 3148 times:

United, when they served all 50 states, used 727's and 737's to serve MHT in NH, BTV in Vermont, and FAR in ND.

User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 days ago) and read 3093 times:

Quoting KcrwFlyer (Reply 19):
On a route that long, the amount of time the ATR will spend in the air starts to offset its lower fuel burn. The longer a route, the less effecient a turboprop is over a jet.

Not to mention that the AT7s at DL seat quite a few more pax as well, 66 seats compared to the 40 on the CRJs that were operating to ILG. Okay, Delta could have combined the 3 CRJs to 2 AT7s, but even then, they would have added more seat (12, or 10%), and would have offered less frequency. That definitely would not have saved ILG.


User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 750 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2981 times:

Quoting Apodino (Reply 3):
Hmmm, article also says they are pulling out of ERI, BGM, and MTH.

BGM has already been announced and discussed on this board. This is the first I have heard about ERI.

DL Dropping BGM In September (by BatonOps Jul 13 2007 in Civil Aviation)


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33043 posts, RR: 71
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 2974 times:

Quoting BatonOps (Reply 23):

BGM has already been announced and discussed on this board. This is the first I have heard about ERI.

ERI is gone. It is no longer bookable. A few other destinations, south of the border might be discontinued as well. So far, Delta is ending ERI, MTH, BGM, ILG, MID, and TIJ in September. I've been told HMO is ending in September, but it is still bookable, so I don't know. I would have though HMO would be one of the stronger performers from LAX.



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