Timz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 7130 posts, RR: 7 Posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3470 times:
Preparing for another auction, so more excerpts, from the April 1967 OAG this time. (More to follow.)
Air Canada has weekly nonstop DC-8s YVR-LHR, YEG-LHR, YWG-LHR and YYZ-FRA, and thrice-weekly YYZ-LHR. YUL-ORY is daily, but no YUL-LHR nonstop. (Just BOAC.)
YUL-CPH-SVO (?) is weekly (as is the Aeroflot Tu114 YUL-SVO nonstop).
All AC's flights out of BDA are Vanguards: 4/week to YYZ, 2/week to YUL, 2/wk to Halifax and one to Antigua-Barbados.
AC and CP don't fly to Detroit, just to Windsor. AC has four Vanguards and four Viscounts a day YYZ-ORD and four Viscount nonstops YYZ-CLE. Their only flights from YUL to the USA: three DC9s, four Vanguards and one Viscount to JFK, and a daily Vanguard to TPA. (They also have two DC8s, one Vanguard and one DC9 daily YYZ-TPA. A long DC9 route, and a long prop route, for 1967.)
A daily DC9 YUL-YWG-YVR-- no other nonstops from YUL beyond YYZ. Even out of YYZ they don't have that many long flights: one nonstop DC8 to YVR, one to YEG and one to YYC.
CP only had one DC-8-50 at this point? Wonder which of their longish nonstops they used it on. Four nonstops a week (it says) Tokyo-YVR, weekly YVR-AMS and YYC-AMS, 2/week YEG-AMS-- and weekly YYZ-HNL, the only flight flown by anyone to Hawaii from east of the Pacific Coast.
Seven flights a week YVR-HNL, one of which continues to NAN and (alternate weeks) SYD or AKL. 2/week YVR-MEX and beyond, 1/week YYC-MEX and beyond. The daily DC8 YVR-SFO is their only flight to the continental US.
Out of YUL CP has nonstops weekly to MAD, 4/week to AMS, 2/week to LIS and weekly to SMA-LIS. Weekly YYZ-AMS and YYZ-FCO, 2/week YYZ-MEX and weekly YYZ-Windsor-MEX. CP 1 is a daily DC8 YUL-YYZ-YWG-YVR.
Viscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 28702 posts, RR: 24
Reply 2, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3380 times:
Thanks for the reminders of the AC/CP schedules in 1967. Brings back memories (I worked for CP from 1969 to 1994).
Quoting Timz (Thread starter): CP only had one DC-8-50 at this point? Wonder which of their longish nonstops they used it on.
The DC-8-50 was basically integrated with the 5 DC-8-40s. Can't recall it having any specific routes so it no doubt showed up on all 5 continents CP served. CP operated another leased DC-8-50 for a year from late 1966 to late 1967. It happened to be the very first DC-8 built, retained by Douglas for several years, converted to a -50 to certify that model, then refurbished and sold. It operated for several carriers on short-term leases. After CP it was sold to DL who had for about 10 years, and finally it went to Aeromexico.
CP added one more DC-8-55F combi with main deck cargo door in late 1967. Most of the time it operated in all-passenger configuration. Four DC-8-63s arrived in 1968, and another -63 bought used from Eastern in 1972. In total, including the DC-8-40 written off at TYO in 1966, CP operated 14 DC-8s.
In 1967 that was the only transcon domestic route CP was permitted to operate (apart from regional services in western Canada.) AC (government-owned then) had a monopoly on major domestic routes. The government finally started opening things up about a year later and permitted CP to operate up to 25% of total capacity between major cities (YVR/YYC/YEG/YWG/YYZ/YOW/YUL). CP's first 7 B737-200s arrived in 1968/69 and were used extensively on the new domestic routes, with DC-8s on longer sectors including YVR-YYZ nonstops which started then. However all CP transcon flights still had to originate/terminate at YVR and YUL which limited scheduling flexibility, That restriction was dropped a few years later, and eventually the entire domestic market was of course deregulated.
AC was also given preference for new Canada-USA routes, with the single exception of YVR-SFO (and YVR-HNL which CP had been serving since 1949, en route to the South Pacific). YVR-SFO only started in 1967 if memory correct. CP had to wait another 7 years for their next USA route when they added YVR-LAX (AC got half a dozen new US routes in that batch of route awards).
WA707atMSP From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 2456 posts, RR: 8
Reply 3, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 22 hours ago) and read 3209 times:
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 2): Quoting Timz (Thread starter):
weekly YYZ-HNL, the only flight flown by anyone to Hawaii from east of the Pacific Coast.
UA started ORD-HNL and JFK-HNL nonstops in 1969 when their long-range DC-8-62s were delivered. JFK-HNL was dropped after a few years.
The US Government didn't allow any airline to fly from Hawaii to anywhere east of the Pacific Coast until 1969. Only three airlines were allowed to fly to Hawaii: UA (from SFO and LAX), NW (from PDX and SEA) and PA (from all of the cities served by UA / NW).
In 1969, UA and NW were allowed to overfly the West Coast on flights from the East Coast to Hawaii. The government also allowed the following airlines to begin service to Hawaii:
Braniff (from Dallas); BN was also certificated to fly from Houston, Atlanta, Tampa, and Miami to Hawaii, but BN never flew these routes.
Continental (from LAX, DEN, MCI, and ORD).
Western (from SAN, LAX, SFO, and ANC; all LAX-HNL flights had to originate in PHX, DEN, SLC, or MSP)
TWA (from LAX and SFO; all flights continued on to Guam, Okinawa, Taipei, and ultimately around the world)
American (from STL, JFK, and ORD); most flights continued on to Fiji, Pago Pago, Australia, and New Zealand
I'm sure much of the traffic CP carried actually originated north of the Detroit River, in Detroit. Detroit's "Mexican" neighborhood was located for many years between Tiger Stadium and the Ambassador Bridge, closer to YQG than DTW.
CP's biggest competition for the DTW/YQG - Mexico market was AeroMexico; AM flew MEX-DTW-YYZ with DC-8s from 1964 to 1975. No US carrier flew nonstop from DTW to MEX until 1994, although AA flew DTW-ORD-MEX-ACA for many years with 707s and DC-10s.
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (8 years 6 months 3 weeks 3 days 17 hours ago) and read 3029 times:
Quoting WA707atMSP (Reply 6): I'm sure much of the traffic CP carried actually originated north of the Detroit River, in Detroit. Detroit's "Mexican" neighborhood was located for many years between Tiger Stadium and the Ambassador Bridge, closer to YQG than DTW.
DTW must have had a mexican population back when mexicans were rare in the non-border states. I have an OAG with a AM DC-8 from MEX-DTW. 1973 I think
Pnwtraveler From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 2376 posts, RR: 11
Reply 14, posted (8 years 6 months 2 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 2617 times:
I flew mostly AC but once and a while CP. CP had better food but economy seemed more cramped. Last CP flight I took was on a DC1O. My last Canadian flight was on a 737 to YUL with the new blue and grey interiors. I actually really liked that colour scheme. The food was complete crap and the roles had reversed with AC's better. Once AC and Canadian merged for a time I think the two catering companies continued to service the two different old carriers. I flew to YVR on an old Canadian 767-300 and SkyChefs were the caters. The salad looked like something they took out of the garbage behind a restaurant. Inedible. I flew back on a AC 767-300 and Cara was the caterer. The food was much better. I witnessed that a number of times. Does anyone know if that was a fluck or did that happen for a period of time?