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Should CX/SQ Give South America A Go?  
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 4088 times:

MH is flying to South America and QF will do so soon. What about SQ and CX?

Or maybe Mexico?

[Edited 2007-07-20 04:35:43]

36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineEddieDude From Mexico, joined Nov 2003, 7523 posts, RR: 43
Reply 1, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4025 times:

Well, I don't know if MH's service to EZE from JNB will last much longer. I sure hope so, but it is said to be a loser operation for MH.

In addition to QF, NZ is also supposed to start flying to South America in the coming years, so Oceania and South America will be very well linked in the not so distant future (I think we all expect LA to continue flying to AKL and SYD after QF launches its own flights to SCL).

With respect to CX and SQ, it would be awesome to see them in Latin America, but the geography does not help much. While SQ has ultra-long-haul planes, I think they feel they are better off relying on connections with their codeshare and alliance partners. I recall not too long ago someone in this forum speculated that SQ might be interested in GRU and MEX, but I honestly don't think we will see any move in that direction soon.



Next flights: MEX-GRU (AM 77E), GRU-GIG (JJ A320), SDU-CGH (G3 73H), GRU-MEX (JJ A332).
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 2, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 4012 times:

SQ/CX can have extensions from places like CPH or an Australian city maybe?

the Malaysian government wants MH to carry on. Not sure why


User currently offline6thfreedom From Bermuda, joined Sep 2004, 3314 posts, RR: 20
Reply 3, posted (6 years 9 months 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 3986 times:

Quoting EddieDude (Reply 1):
In addition to QF, NZ is also supposed to start flying to South America in the coming years, so Oceania and South America will be very well linked in the not so distant future (I think we all expect LA to continue flying to AKL and SYD after QF launches its own flights to SCL).



Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
SQ/CX can have extensions from places like CPH or an Australian city maybe?

The cost of the asset being away from base for such a long period of time would make it hard for a business case to stack up.

That being said, why would they want to do it in their own right.
They both have descent connections with alliance partners via North America, and perhaps by the end of next year SQ can connect on NZ via AKL, and CX on QF via SYD to South America!


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 4, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 3726 times:

Another problem with direct flights between Asia and South America is that you're also competing with almost all major European carriers, plus Transpacific carriers via USA/Canada From most major cities in Asia, it's shorter via Europe than via the Pacific, e.g. from SIN to GRU about 20% shorter..

Examples:
GRU-LAX-SIN: 12970 naut mi.
GRU-FRA-SIN: 10831 naut. mi.
GRU-SIN nonstop: 8644 naut. mi (Great Circle route pases south of Africa and over the Indian Ocean.)


User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 5, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 3664 times:

Can the B 777-200LR fly nonstop from HKG/SIN to South America?

User currently offlineRyanair!!! From Australia, joined Mar 2002, 4738 posts, RR: 26
Reply 6, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3607 times:

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
SQ/CX can have extensions from places like CPH or an Australian city maybe?

CPH?? Why would SQ or CX fly all the way to Scandinavia and the loop the aircraft back down towards the Southern Hemishpere via the Atlantic?? South America offers very little business opportunities and if passenger numbers on the MAS flights are anything to go by, it should be an indication of how bad the route is performing. By the way, MAS has the distinction of being the only carrier from SE Asian to offer a flight to South America. Prestigious, despite the bleed. But bleeding to death nevertheless...

Quoting United Airline (Reply 2):
the Malaysian government wants MH to carry on. Not sure why

Simple, the route was created during Dr. M's time. His grand visions of propelling Malaysia into the 21st century has done wonders in many areas. However, some of his grand ideas still remain just that.

Post 9-11, the airline industry is now in a perpetual state of caution. No longer can airlines afford to stretch their network for the sake of prestige. Never before has the idea of code sharing and alliances been so important. Malaysia Airlines for that matter has been running too long on an idea that whatever happens, we will have back up. Several BTPs later, we have seen the new ruling government under the administration of Abdullah Badawi finally showing a strong fist when handling MAS, buck up or else...

Perhaps this time it is really working. But government ties and influences are still hard to shake off. While critics like to moan and groan about how "oh no here we go again", one must realise that MAS has run similarly since its formation in 1971 and it would take some time for the new work style to come into place.

Therefore, KUL-EZE will most likely remain for a while longer despite the under-performance of it. There is a very strong rumour that Dr. M has a ranch there which is why this route is still being kept alive despite critics questioning the existence. Although there were attempts to get SAA into some sort of code sharing alliance on the JNB-EZE sector, nothing seems to have come out of it.



Welcome to my starry one world alliance, a team in the sky!
User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 7, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3598 times:

CX will be venturing south...stay tuned....


We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineGneissGuy From Singapore, joined Jul 2006, 200 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 3592 times:

Don't think SQ has any plans for that continent.......simply not enough premium traffic (which SQ thrives on).

User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 3572 times:

I would agree that SQ really has no reason to open a direct route to South America. If you take GIG as an example, SQ can code share the following routes:

SIN-LHR-GIG code share with Virgin Atlantic

SIN-FRA-GIG code share with LH

SIN-JNB-GIG code share with SA

I imagine the pattern is largely the same for most destinations in South America. SQ can code share through Europe or South Africa without worrying about filling it's own flight(s) to South America. I don't think the demand in Asia for non-stop travel to South America is strong enough to justify the risk, especially when you have strong alliance connections with other airlines.



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 10, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3513 times:
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Quoting 777law (Reply 9):
SIN-LHR-GIG code share with Virgin Atlantic

have I missed something ? there has been a lot of talk about VS starting to GIG but as far as I am aware that's all

Quoting 777law (Reply 9):
SIN-JNB-GIG code share with SA

I think you mean JNB-GRU - again , unless I have missed something SA do not fly to GIG



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 11
Reply 11, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3495 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 7):
CX will be venturing south...stay tuned....

Hmm nice. I'm not good geographically but since CX operate AKL once daily in the Northern Summer and twice daily in the Northern Winter maybe a HKG-AKL-SA flight could work 3x weekly with a 343?? So AKL could be 10 weekly in the Northern Summer and 17 weekly in the Northern Winter

CX117 HKG 1530 AKL 0740 CX118 AKL 0855 HKG 1530 Daily Northern Winter only 34D
CX107 HKG 2100 AKL 1305 CX108 AKL 1420 HKG 2100 Daily Year round 34D
CXxxx HKG 0100 AKL 1700 CXxxx AKL 1830 ??? 1300 3x weekly year round 34D
CXxxx ??? 2300 AKL 0500 CXxxx AKL 0630 HKG 1330

Maybe I'm dreaming but hey.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 8643 posts, RR: 75
Reply 12, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 13 hours ago) and read 3485 times:

Quoting ZK-NBT (Reply 11):
Maybe I'm dreaming but hey.

South of USA, but not via AKL. AKL should be going twice daily year round, MEL 3 times daily, ADL daily.



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 12 hours ago) and read 3460 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 10):
have I missed something ? there has been a lot of talk about VS starting to GIG but as far as I am aware that's all

http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1183121/M/

Looks like it.

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 10):

I think you mean JNB-GRU - again , unless I have missed something SA do not fly to GIG

I'm not entirely sure about this one. I was recently talking to a colleague who occasionally travels between SIN and GIG. They said they usually connected through JNB. The flight to GIG may involve a second connection through GRU, but it was my understanding SIN-GIG was a single connection through JNB. I'll double check this.



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlineMotorHussy From New Zealand, joined Mar 2000, 3038 posts, RR: 9
Reply 14, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3412 times:

Quoting 777law (Reply 13):
The flight to GIG may involve a second connection through GRU, but it was my understanding SIN-GIG was a single connection through JNB.

SA connect through to GIG from JNB via GRU with codeshares on (predominantly) JJ and RG flights.

It's my opinion that because of ease of connections, slots, alliances etc AKL will be a great hub between Asia and South America particularly when NZ starts flights to LatAm. oneworld passengers can already connect from HKG daily with CX to SCL with LA (daily flights by year's end) and from SIN with QF changing at SYD. When NZ starts LatAm, SQ will no doubt codeshare with them and NZ flies more than daily to HKG for Star Alliance fliers.

Any likelihood of MH and AR joining SkyTeam? There has been speculation. That would give this alliance a link in AKL and with KE.

Regards
MH



come visit the south pacific
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8492 posts, RR: 14
Reply 15, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 11 hours ago) and read 3399 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Quoting 777law (Reply 13):
http://www.airliners.net/open.file/1183121/M/

Looks like it.

I stand corrected - strange that it is not listed on VS website as a destination , unless it was a charter rather than a scheduled service - I notice that this photo
View Large View Medium
Click here for bigger photo!

Photo © Bernardo Andrade

specifically mentions taking cruise passengers from the Queen Mary II back to the UK - there are only 4 photos in the whole database of VS a/c at GIG which , together with the abscence of any reference to GIG on VS website makes me wonder if they are an intermittent visitor rather than a scheduled operator ? Any VS insiders care to comment .... and sorry for going so far off topic .



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineA350XWB From Germany, joined Jan 2007, 44 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 7 hours ago) and read 3298 times:

Quoting 777law (Reply 9):
SIN-LHR-GIG code share with Virgin Atlantic

SIN-FRA-GIG code share with LH

SIN-JNB-GIG code share with SA

none of these airlines sents own metal to GIG. LH & SA are flying to GRU, VS isn't flying to Brasil.

[Edited 2007-07-21 14:55:04]

User currently offlineAirbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 7874 posts, RR: 10
Reply 17, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3232 times:

Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Examples:
GRU-LAX-SIN: 12970 naut mi.
GRU-FRA-SIN: 10831 naut. mi.

Actually FRA-JNB-SIN at 8700nm is by far the shortest path of all and SQ already flies to JNB and their passengers can transfer to their *A partner's (SA) flight to GRU.


User currently offlineB-HOP From Hong Kong, joined Nov 2000, 603 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (6 years 9 months 4 days 3 hours ago) and read 3179 times:

CX will be venturing south...stay tuned....

Is it cargo or even pax to Mexico City, any news?

Kev



Live life to max!!!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 24075 posts, RR: 22
Reply 19, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 3072 times:

Quoting Airbazar (Reply 17):
Quoting Viscount724 (Reply 4):
Examples:
GRU-LAX-SIN: 12970 naut mi.
GRU-FRA-SIN: 10831 naut. mi.

Actually FRA-JNB-SIN at 8700nm is by far the shortest path of all and SQ already flies to JNB and their passengers can transfer to their *A partner's (SA) flight to GRU.

Assume you mean GRU-JNB-SIN. Agree, JNB is close to the great circle route.


User currently offlineLutfi From China, joined Sep 2000, 759 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 3038 times:

CX is looking at cargo flights to MEX

User currently offlineZK-NBT From New Zealand, joined Oct 2000, 5193 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 18 hours ago) and read 2999 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 12):
South of USA, but not via AKL. AKL should be going twice daily year round, MEL 3 times daily, ADL daily.

Ok. Interesting AKL will only go twice daily from December this year rather than October. Is this due to aircraft avaliability?

Maybe a non stop from OZ to South America or via PPT?

MEL and ADL already announced.


User currently offline777law From Monaco, joined Jul 2006, 203 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2918 times:

Quoting A350XWB (Reply 16):
none of these airlines sents own metal to GIG. LH & SA are flying to GRU, VS isn't flying to Brasil.

Thanks for the correction. I should have used GRU as an example rather than GIG -- my bad.  whiteflag 

Despite my error, I think my basic point still holds: SQ has sufficient connections through *A, VS, etc. that it doesn't need to incur the risk of flying it's own metal to South America. On this basis, I think it is unlikely that we'll see SQ in South America anytime soon.



UA- Premier Platinum, AF / KL - Flying Blue Petroleum, BA Executive Club Silver
User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9107 posts, RR: 15
Reply 23, posted (6 years 9 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 2790 times:

Quoting B-HOP (Reply 18):
CX will be venturing south...stay tuned....

Cargo or pax? When?


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 24, posted (6 years 9 months 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 2628 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting 777law (Reply 9):
SIN-LHR-GIG code share with Virgin Atlantic

I wish this become real, even only the LHR-GIG flight with VS in the near future.


Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
25 2travel2know : The best candidate to take over MH KUL-Southamerica service would be SQ. They could be flying SIN-CPT/DUR/MRU-GRU and SIN-CPT-EZE.. As why CPT/DUR/MR
26 United Airline : I doubt MH will suspend service to South America anytime soon since the Malaysian government doesn't want that to happen
27 Cloudyapple : Panama is one of only 24 countries that has diplomatic ties with Taiwan. This route was flown was under pure politics. It was losing money by the buc
28 2travel2know : Actually CM starting LAX was the excuse used by BR to drop PTY; because BR was supposed to codeshare w/CM on the LAX-PTY-LAX route.
29 EddieDude : I do not think the Mexican government, the U.S. government, the Mexican airlines and the U.S. airlines would be very happy to have a foreign airline
30 Airbazar : Mexico may not allow it but there would be no opposition from the US. SQ already has rights to/from the US to a 3rd country. That is probably covered
31 EddieDude : Those examples you quote in your post do not involve Mexico, and Mexico and the U.S. have a very specific bilateral which has sought to balance thing
32 2travel2know : For some odd U.S. - México route like a ONT-TLC maybe both the U.S. and México could grant SQ and CX traffic rights.. Same goes for an ANC-MEX..
33 EddieDude : I don't doubt it, but do you see CX or SQ flying to ONT? Neither do I. As for ANC, is there a market for SIN/HKG-ANC and ANC-MEX? With regards to Mex
34 2travel2know : ANC is kind of a cargo hub, so for the cargo part, there may not be a problem. Also I see Artic berries, Alaska Salmon and King Crabs being exported
35 United Airline : CX is already doing a technical stop at ANC on its way between Toronto and Hong Kong. So why not pick up and offload passengers MIND AS WELL?
36 Viscount724 : Probably so few potential passengers it wouldn't be worth the expense of having check-in and baggage handling staff available. I also expect that if
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