Art From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2005, 3495 posts, RR: 1 Posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 3367 times:
I am just wondering: if (as looks increasingly likely) Alitalia folds and the employees lose their jobs, what are their prospects of finding jobs with other airlines? If I were an employer in the airline business looking for more staff, I would be very wary of offering a job to someone who had repeatedly gone on strike when working for their previous airline employer. Perhaps even more so if they went on strike when they were receiving higher salaries and better job benefits than I was offering.
Any thoughts? Have Alitalia employees made themselves unemployable by other airlines?
IIRC Airbus employees don't strike as often as AZ staff. They had some strikes after the Power8 announcement, but IIRC it didn't even effect the production line. AZ staff strikes seriously hamper AZ ops. The biggest problem is the power of the AZ unions and the government interference. I don't know if all unions in Italy are as strong, but they acted foolishly a lot of times. I'm not saying I'm against unions, they have done a lot of good over the years, but they should also think about the company. You can do all you can for your members, but if it causes bankruptcy, your members (union members) are even worse off...
LHRBlueSkies From United Kingdom, joined Jan 2007, 493 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 3225 times:
Quoting Art (Thread starter): Have Alitalia employees made themselves unemployable by other airlines?
Bit of a wide-ranging statement/question.
No matter where you are, individuals are recruited by companies, rarely is it mass employment, unless company a is bought out by company b.
AZ staff, as individuals, are probably average at doing their jobs, no better than industry best, and no worse than many poor airlines. It is the unions, and meddling governments, that cause the problems at AZ - allow the airline to run as a business, not a government charity, and it could do well!
flying is the safest form of transport - until humans get involved!
YOWza From Canada, joined Jul 2005, 5020 posts, RR: 14
Reply 5, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3125 times:
I think that those future ex-AZ staff that are keen to find work in aviation will be able to do so. They just need to realize that the honeymoon is over and their days of wearing the pants are now over. They will need to be more subservient than they previously were if they aim to keep their new jobs. Many carriers in Europe are cutthroat and will not stand for the nonsense AZ employees have managed to get away with in years past.
FLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 1 day ago) and read 3102 times:
Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 4): I would think the pilots and operations people should probably find new jobs easily. It would be more difficult for the cabin and ground crew
Why would it be hard for the former Alitalia Cabin Crew members to find new jobs. With the ongoing recruiting efforts of Emirates, Qatar Airways, Etihad, RyanAir, EasyJet, and others if they wanted to remain Cabin Crew members they most certainly could only at a different base. Language speakers are very much desired by Emirates, Qatar Airways, and Etihad.
On a side note does anyone know why Emirates, Qatar Airways, Etihad, and Gulf Air do not recruit American nationals as Flight Attendants?
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (8 years 2 months 3 weeks 14 hours ago) and read 2905 times:
Quoting Art (Thread starter): Any thoughts? Have Alitalia employees made themselves unemployable by other airlines?
I would say yes. However, if they can prove that they understand the post-socialist reality of the current world economy, they might make it if the airline really, really needs their skills. Pilots are in demand. As for the ground crew and FAs, not so easy. And those who get hired will be watched carefully and weeded out fast if they cause problems.
When I worked in Silicon Valley, we never even interviewed Lockheed employees, particularly those who worked for LMSC (Lockheed Missiles and Space Company) because they had a really bad mindset caused by all the government contracts they worked on. We called LMSC "the Lazy Man's Social Club."
The same would probably be true of the ex-AZ people. Having "Alitalia" on one's resume is the kiss of death.
Eugdog From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2001, 518 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 5 hours ago) and read 2583 times:
Alitailia is so overmanned it is not likely that most will find new jobs even if the Alitalia workers did not carry the stigma of being militant - I think airlines would prefer to hire young eager talent then bolshie veterans
ArniePie From Belgium, joined Aug 2005, 1290 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 3 hours ago) and read 2547 times:
Quoting USFlyer MSP (Reply 4): I would think the pilots and operations people should probably find new jobs easily.
As for the pilots, theoretically they should have the most chance to get reemployed by another airline IF they don't have to wait too long.
I seem to remember that a lot of ex-Sabena pilots that didn't get a job fast enough got into problems because they lost their type rating for being inactive too long.
Maybe that was also because it happened so quickly after 9/11 when the whole aviation business was in a dip and demand for pilots was much less.
Alitalia pilots should have it better on that front but there are a lot of pilots coming onto the market when AZ folds I would imagine.
Comeflywithme From Argentina, joined Sep 2006, 265 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 2476 times:
If they want to do their job under drastic new terms and conditions I don't see why not. It may come as a bit of a shock to them though as they are working under T&Cs which are at least 10 years out of date.
The cosy days are nearly over for them - unions are to blame not them.
Does it have something to do with Americans not being able to travel to a number of Middle Eastern nations?
Certainly the pay and benefits packages offered by Etihad, Qatar, and Emirates is leaps and bounds above that offered by American Airlines, United Airlines, Delta Air Lines, Continental Airlines, and others..
DesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1525 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2356 times:
I was reading an article a while back that compared the US and Europe job markets. The author indicated that US workers have less job security than their European counterparts but US workers have a much better chance of finding a new job than Europeans. Most countries have sold off their state airlines because they are a locus for graft, corruption and inefficiency. When I lived in Bolivia there was much discussion about the privitization of LAB. One statistic indicated that non-govt. airlines had about 3 workers per plane while LAB had 6. I can see AZ workers that have made a name for themselves because of their skill, maybe finding work, but low level employees will have a tough go of it.
AnneTooh From United Arab Emirates, joined Oct 2005, 32 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (8 years 2 months 2 weeks 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 2321 times:
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 6): On a side note does anyone know why Emirates, Qatar Airways, Etihad, and Gulf Air do not recruit American nationals as Flight Attendants?
I don't know about Etihad, Gulf Air or Qatar, but I sure do know that Emirates hires US nationals as flight attendants. Where did you pick up that rumor that they didn't? Actually the number of US Americans is getting bigger, but I guess the percentage of them in the group of all FA's is not growing.
I would rather have assumed that there are ever less US-Americans willing to work in the ME due to known issues on how it is perceived in the US and what the mainstream media coverage is like about this area.
Coming back to the subject of why AZ crew may have a difficult time of finding a job, I think it's simple - unfortunately: It's their average age. Especially the ME carriers focus on young FA's. Additionally, what woman or man (let's say 35 - 40 year old) would like to live in an apartment sharing it with a flat mate that they might not know, even if the apartment is pretty big and spacious? As a 20 - 25 year old I can see that it wouldn't matter that much perhaps. But at some more advanced age? Hmmm
Same for the pilots: Who at let's say 50 and above wants to quickly take up a new job somewhere else and start again from scratch in seniority? Granted, Emirates does take direct entry captains, but only a fraction of those who apply are taken directly as captain. Some of them get offered an FO's position and then may hopefully upgrade again after some time in the company. Which might not be long, but not a lot would like to do it anyway. Think about the privileges they enjoyed in AZ and now back to basics? I guess very unlikely for the huge majority of them.
So yes, unfortunately, I do see a lot of problems arising for their employees if AZ shuts down. Let's hope for the best!
Pilots too. A few years back, they had a full page ad in the New York times featuring an Emirates A340 US Captain leaning out of a taxi in NYC with his Emirates uniform on. The ad said something like this is so and so, and they did a short interview with him about how he loved the UAE, and Emirates and so on and so forth, and then they urged people to apply with the airline.