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787 To LGA Or DCA?  
User currently offlineCha747 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 785 posts, RR: 6
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 4978 times:

Hello All,

I took-off from LGA 2 mornings ago and as I was looking around, it seemed that the largest plane on the ground at the time was a 757. I've flown DL's 762 there from ATL (Spirit of Delta, lucky for me) when they flew there. So the question is, will any/all variants of the 787 be able to operate from LGA, DCA, or similar airports? Thanks.


You land a million planes safely, then you have one little mid-air and you never hear the end of it - Pushing Tin
34 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineDAL767400ER From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 days ago) and read 4966 times:

Neither 787 variant will be allowed into DCA, mainly due to weight, and in the case of the 788 and 789, wingspan. Almost the same for LGA, though the 783 should be within the weight limits at LGA, and wingspan-wise, it would fit into gates currently used by the 764. That said, I doubt we will see any 783 being operated into LGA.

User currently offlineBoeing743 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4692 times:

I do not think that 787 will ever come to DCA due to limit length of urnway. It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA. They would had to use full power for taking off and reduce a great of power before landing so that plane able to stop before arrived at end of runway. I used to live in DCA so basically I used DCA on my trip to IND. Pilots will always use full power when taking off. It was so faster.

Boeing 787 will be able to do the BWI and IAD due to long runway so that 787 will be able to stop at good lenght. So DCA is out of question for 787 to fly into DCA


User currently offlineRDUDDJI From Lesotho, joined Jun 2004, 1465 posts, RR: 3
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 4635 times:

After 9/11 there was a rule about the maximum number of seats for flights into DCA. I don't know the exact number but I think it was in the range of 150ish. I don't know if this rule still exists, but if it does, it would definitely end the chances of the 787 at DCA.


Sometimes we don't realize the good times when we're in them
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1265 posts, RR: 8
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4594 times:

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 3):
After 9/11 there was a rule about the maximum number of seats for flights into DCA. I don't know the exact number but I think it was in the range of 150ish. I don't know if this rule still exists, but if it does, it would definitely end the chances of the 787 at DCA.

If any such rule still exists, it's gotta be at least 175 or so, as several airlines bring 752s in. I've never heard of such a rule, but it wouldn't be surprising. Most flights on large planes are naturally limited because of runway length and the perimeter rules anyway though.

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):
It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA. They would had to use full power for taking off and reduce a great of power before landing so that plane able to stop before arrived at end of runway.

The 757s seem to have less trouble with the short runway taking off than the really loaded 738s and MadDogs, from what I've seen and flown on.


User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1265 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4588 times:

***Duplicate post, just ignore it***

[Edited 2007-07-21 22:41:02]

User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4575 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):
It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA. They would had to use full power for taking off and reduce a great of power before landing so that plane able to stop before arrived at end of runway.

 redflag 
757's operate daily out of SNA, the whole way to ORD. SNA's runway is significantly shorter than DCA's, and with DCA's perimeter rule the SNA-ORD flights would loaded at least as much as your average DCA jaunt. The 757 is WELL known as being a rocket ship, DCA is the kind of airport they excel at.


User currently offlineBoeing743 From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 406 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 15 hours ago) and read 4516 times:

I would flying out of DCA aboard 757 on DL and US. If I remember correctly, the pilot would have engines on full power before taking off. I think it is very powerful and fast because next thing we know we were in air. I felt like we were on runway for short time before taking off. I experienced taking off on 757 at DEN, LAS and DTW, they use good lenght before finally taking off compared to DCA.

User currently offlineJpetekYXMD80 From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 4383 posts, RR: 29
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 4492 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 7):
I would flying out of DCA aboard 757 on DL and US. If I remember correctly, the pilot would have engines on full power before taking off. I think it is very powerful and fast because next thing we know we were in air. I felt like we were on runway for short time before taking off. I experienced taking off on 757 at DEN, LAS and DTW, they use good lenght before finally taking off compared to DCA.

Seems inconsistent with...

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):
It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA.

The 757 can handle DCA with relative ease.



The Best Care in the Air, 1984-2009
User currently offlineTornado82 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4353 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 7):
I experienced taking off on 757 at DEN, LAS and DTW, they use good lenght before finally taking off compared to DCA.

It's called flex takeoff. You don't floor your car every time you start from a stop sign do you, so why use all the available power from your jet engines if you don't have to on a long runway?

Quoting JpetekYXMD80 (Reply 8):
Seems inconsistent with...

Glad someone else noticed it too.  Wink


User currently offlineDkf747 From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 37 posts, RR: 0
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4335 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):
I do not think that 787 will ever come to DCA due to limit length of urnway. It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA. They would had to use full power for taking off and reduce a great of power before landing so that plane able to stop before arrived at end of runway. I used to live in DCA so basically I used DCA on my trip to IND. Pilots will always use full power when taking off. It was so faster.

Boeing 787 will be able to do the BWI and IAD due to long runway so that 787 will be able to stop at good lenght. So DCA is out of question for 787 to fly into DCA

The planes do not use full power on takeoff from DCA.

Also, I remember when a diverted DC-10 landed at DCA a few years ago. That had to use full power and practically remove all the weight to get out of there. I would think it is possible for a future 787, but no one knows yet if it can.


User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4270 times:

IIRC, Eastern used the A300 on Shuttle flights to DCA for awhile. I'm not sure why they discontinued them (economic or restrictions). I believe the 757 is as big as DCA will ever see now.

User currently offlineTimz From United States of America, joined Sep 1999, 6813 posts, RR: 7
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 4003 times:

Quoting Dkf747 (Reply 10):
a diverted DC-10 landed at DCA a few years ago. That had to use full power and practically remove all the weight to get out of there.

UA scheduled DC-10s to California off Kona's 6500-ft runway for a couple years.

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 11):
IIRC, Eastern used the A300 on Shuttle flights to DCA for awhile.

Bet you can't find a timetable showing that.


User currently offlineD L X From United States of America, joined May 1999, 11263 posts, RR: 52
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 3931 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 11):
IIRC, Eastern used the A300 on Shuttle flights to DCA for awhile.

Bet you can't find a timetable showing that.

Eastern used te A300 on shuttle flights between LGA and BOS, but not DCA.



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User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3899 times:

The 787 could easily do LGA, the formula for LGA besides runway length for what can and cannot has nothing to do with "size" though gate does play into it at LGA. The actual reason some airplanes cannot go into LGA though size and runway may not be an issue is the weight supported on each bogey of the gear when you divide it up. LGA has a good chunk of runway built on peirs and they have certain weight peramiters that have to be followed or you might go swimming next time you touch down on 22.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3840 times:

Quoting N710PS (Reply 14):
The 787 could easily do LGA, the formula for LGA besides runway length for what can and cannot has nothing to do with "size" though gate does play into it at LGA. The actual reason some airplanes cannot go into LGA though size and runway may not be an issue is the weight supported on each bogey of the gear when you divide it up. LGA has a good chunk of runway built on peirs and they have certain weight peramiters that have to be followed or you might go swimming next time you touch down on 22.

LGA use to handle L-1011 from DL and eastern so no problems for 787


User currently offlineMtb555 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 102 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 3831 times:

i flew on Delta in 2001 from MCO-LGA (then DL2124) on a 763... you could really feel the plane braking hard. Full plane, too (269pax).

User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3828 times:

I would also like to note a little known fact tghat the 777-200 was designed with LGA operations in mind as well whjich is the reason they offered the folding wing tips as well.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3801 times:

Quoting Timz (Reply 12):
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 11):
IIRC, Eastern used the A300 on Shuttle flights to DCA for awhile.

Bet you can't find a timetable showing that.

Lets put it this way, I've seen photos of it at DCA. EA's timetables normally did not mention a/c type used on the Shuttle other than in the early 70's when it mentioned an Electra used on one DCA-LGA-DCA r/t.

The pics I saw may have been substitutions or whatever, but it was flown in there from time to time. I stand corrected if it was not scheduled.

Edited for crappy spelling.

[Edited 2007-07-23 02:41:59]

User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2496 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3778 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 7):
I experienced taking off on 757 at DEN, LAS and DTW, they use good lenght before finally taking off compared to DCA.



Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 9):
It's called flex takeoff. You don't floor your car every time you start from a stop sign do you, so why use all the available power from your jet engines if you don't have to on a long runway?

Right, but you also have to consider that LAS and DEN are at altitude. Traffic is also a factor; crews may be instructed to "expedite" their departure if an inbound is breathing down their neck.


I'd love to see a 783 at DCA but would think that a domestic carrier with the intent to use the 783 out of DCA would actually use it. DCA isn't a "hub" or "focus city" for much of anyone; IMO, it'd be pretty silly to use an aircraft of that size and capability at an airport that's driven more on a demand for frequency than capacity. Most of the flights originate east of the Mississippi, save for some to.from IAH, DFW, DEN and MSY (I think). RJs rule the land on the Anacostia.

777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3776 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
757's operate daily out of SNA, the whole way to ORD.

I'm on one of those flights next week.. biggrin 



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineHalls120 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3744 times:

Quoting Tornado82 (Reply 6):
Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 2):It was very challenge for 757 to operate at DCA. They would had to use full power for taking off and reduce a great of power before landing so that plane able to stop before arrived at end of runway.
ÊÊ
757's operate daily out of SNA, the whole way to ORD. SNA's runway is significantly shorter than DCA's, and with DCA's perimeter rule the SNA-ORD flights would loaded at least as much as your average DCA jaunt. The 757 is WELL known as being a rocket ship, DCA is the kind of airport they excel at.

Challenge for the 757 to operate at DCA?  rotfl  I've sat in the RCC many an hour watching the UA and NW 752's use far less runway than other aircraft.


User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 3716 times:

I have non reved on full boat 757's and been off faster than most as well.


There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineSteeler83 From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 9191 posts, RR: 18
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3707 times:

Quoting Boeing743 (Reply 7):
I experienced taking off on 757 at DEN, LAS and DTW, they use good lenght before finally taking off compared to DCA.

I was on US 5 back on 13 April 2000 from MCO-PIT, and I seem to remember that 752 using more runway as well... Awesome aircraft BTW!!!  Smile

I do have to say, I don't think the 787 will land at LGA or DCA. For one thing, isn't US the only airline with a focus city in DCA, or am I wrong about that? US is still pushing for the A350, not the 787...



Do not bring stranger girt into your room. The stranger girt is dangerous, it will hurt your life.
User currently offlineChiGB1973 From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 1615 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 3702 times:

Quoting RDUDDJI (Reply 3):
After 9/11 there was a rule about the maximum number of seats for flights into DCA. I don't know the exact number but I think it was in the range of 150ish



Quoting IADCA (Reply 4):
it's gotta be at least 175 or so,

TZ's 752s have 200 seats, had 218 (I think) prior to that, so bump the number up a bit more. TZ seldom uses 757s at DCA anymore, but did post 9/11.

M


25 Post contains images 777fan : I'm not sure what the criteria are, but I'd say so (from FlyteComm). I can just see a US 783 climbing out of DCA and gracefully banking over the oute
26 IADCA : That's because of the 1250-mile perimeter rule, not the market demand. IAH and DFW are within that perimeter, as are MCI, OMA, STL, BTR, and MSY. DEN
27 Timz : I think I have too-- they were trying it, hoping for approval to use it on scheduled flights-- which I'm pretty sure they never got. Like he said, EA
28 N710PS : The A-300 was indeed an approved plane at LGA as was the DC-10 the L1011 and currently all models of 767.
29 Post contains links and images TeamAmerica : A.Net is a wonderful resource: DC-10's at LGA: View Large View MediumPhoto © Kjell Nilsson View Large View MediumPhoto © Howard Chaloner Vie
30 VC10BOAC : On memorable flight was very early one cold windy morning on a half-full NW 757 taking off from BWI. There was a significant headwind. We lifted off
31 DualQual : We de-rate in the 737 at DCA with no problems and the 737 is a pig compared to the 757. The 757 does just fine at DCA.
32 ADent : Are you sure those were Kona to LAX/SFO non-stop? Most of those type of Hawaii routes involved a stop somewhere else on the way back (typically HNL)
33 Timz : You remember UA 40, the KOA-SFO nonstop was UA's last scheduled DC-8-71 flight, in 1991. DC-10s took over; the flight remained nonstop. The runway wa
34 Post contains links Cha747 : Thanks all of you for your answers. I posted this in response to this thread: http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/346490
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