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Cape Air NYC Service  
User currently offlineGabrielz From United States of America, joined May 2004, 75 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 2632 times:

Hey there:

Does anyone know whether or not 9K had service directly from the cape to NYC airports? In particular, I'm interested in service between PVC (Provincetown) and LGA or JFK.

I know they are now codesharing with B6, but I'm wondering why there's no nonstop service from NYC to PVC?



9 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineDeltAirlines From United States of America, joined May 1999, 8898 posts, RR: 12
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 13 hours ago) and read 2615 times:

I don't recall 9K ever having any Northeastern service outside of BOS/HYA/ACK/MVY/PVD/PVC/New Bedford.

As for NYC-PVC, that would be quite a long flight in a Cessna (probably blocked around 2 hours); I don't know if consumers would want that. That doesn't include the relatively high costs of having to operate in and out of either LGA or JFK. BOS is one thing where it operates a quasi-hub for Cape Air (I think they get up to around 80 departures on some summer days out of BOS); it might not be as economical for 3-4 flights (which would probably be it due to the longer flying time).


User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 169 posts, RR: 2
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 11 hours ago) and read 2494 times:

Quoting DeltAirlines (Reply 1):
BOS is one thing where it operates a quasi-hub for Cape Air (I think they get up to around 80 departures on some summer days out of BOS)

I've often wondered about the economic efficiency of Cape Air running so many flights per day. Shouldn't there be an "economy of scale" if they upgraded to (e.g.) ATRs and ran fewer flights per day? I'm fairly certain that Northeast Airlines (or perhaps Delta after they acquired Northeast) used to service Nantucket with frequent daily jet service using mainline sized planes (DC-9s, maybe?). And commanded fairly high ticket prices, given the demographics of Cape Cod, Nantucket, and Martha's Vineyard (especially in summer). Or is "economy of scale" a false concept? After all, Cape Air seems to do well by running a zillion flights a day with tiny planes during high season. But doesn't this violate everything I learned in Economics 101 in college? How can running 850 flights per day with 9-passenger aircraft be more economical than running 105 flights per day with 72-passenger aircraft (e.g., ATR-72s)? Does anyone have any insight on this? Oh, the 850 flights per day isn't a figment of my imagination; it's from Cape Air's website. Thanks.

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineJ_Hallgren From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1507 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 6 days 9 hours ago) and read 2440 times:

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 2):
How can running 850 flights per day with 9-passenger aircraft be more economical than running 105 flights per day with 72-passenger aircraft (e.g., ATR-72s)? Does anyone have any insight on this?

My only comment is based on living on Cape Cod seasonally, and that is: While it may be a bit more costly to run that way, they are thus serving the market/consumer and likely getting more business that way...if one wants to go from Hyannis to the islands, the other choice is the ferry which runs quite often, so they are competing against that...having to wait quite some time for a flight could thus give advantage to the ferry...



COBOL - Not a dead language yet!
User currently offlineS5FA170 From United States of America, joined Sep 2005, 534 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2274 times:

I flew Cape Air for the first time this weekend BOS-PVC-BOS, and the staff is incredibly accomodating. Great airline. Great attitude. And I quite enjoyed flying the Cessna 402. From what I understand, if one "Segment" of a flight fills up they will run a second segment (much like the Shuttles used to do). Is this true?


Prepare doors for departure and cross-check.
User currently offlineGift4tbone From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 612 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 2262 times:

Quoting S5FA170 (Reply 4):
From what I understand, if one "Segment" of a flight fills up they will run a second segment (much like the Shuttles used to do). Is this true?

From what I heard, they leave all their flights open ended, and as it fills up they will have the number of aircraft needed running the same flight, same time, to cover all the pax. i.e. 25 people book the 3:30 to HYA, then they will fly 3 airplanes at 3:30 to HYA. Obviously they won't land or take off at the 'same' time, but I guess it works for them. I know sometime here in PVD, they will have 5 or 6 aircraft at once, all going to MVY.

-Tony@PVD



Top 3 airports: PVD 26.0%(115 flights), PHL 15.6%(69 flights), PHX 12.0%(53 flights)
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 435 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2226 times:

Briefly, 9K flew a CO coded flight from BOS-HPN on a 402.

Kind of off topic, but they are looking to expand in the northeast. They applied for the EAS grant to serve BOS-RUT. They're up against DL, and they are offering to serve PLB and SLK in addition to RUT.


User currently offlineNrcnyc From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 111 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 2202 times:

If you have 4 people, you can charter an aerostar from Reliant Air for 400/person one way. The boss flew us out to PVC a couple times like that. However (at my reccomendation) we did HPN-PVC instead of LGA witch has more ground delays and higher landing fees. I reccomend them, but its still pricey.

User currently offlineChinaClipper40 From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 169 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 2167 times:

Quoting J_Hallgren (Reply 3):
if one wants to go from Hyannis to the islands, the other choice is the ferry which runs quite often, so they are competing against that...having to wait quite some time for a flight could thus give advantage to the ferry...

I wasn't thinking so much about service from Hyannis to the islands, but rather from Boston. As a long-time seasonal resident of Nantucket, I have often seen Cape Air needing to dispatch multiple planes (3, 4, even 5) out of BOS for a given scheduled hourly departure time. Their service is delightful - and incredibly accommodating - but I've often thought that a single ATR-42 could handle the lined-up passengers more cost-effectively. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the concept of "economy of scale" is bunk - pushed by conservative economics professors onto undergraduates who don't know any better. Cape Air's experience would seem to suggest so.

ChinaClipper40


User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21571 posts, RR: 55
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 15 hours ago) and read 2124 times:

Quoting ChinaClipper40 (Reply 8):
Maybe the concept of "economy of scale" is bunk - pushed by conservative economics professors onto undergraduates who don't know any better. Cape Air's experience would seem to suggest so.

I don't think it's bunk, but there are some circumstances where it doesn't apply, and this would be one of them. IIRC, one of Cape Air's foremost qualities is the small-airline personal touch that they can give to their customers. That's not something that carries over very easily to an ATR.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
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