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Tucson Flights To JFK And EWR  
User currently offlineNycaross From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 58 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 5 months 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 4969 times:

I was just wondering how B6 is doing with TUS-JFK flights and also how CO is doing with their flights
TUS-EWR. I sure hope that those flights are here to stay.

11 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineThirteenRight From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 340 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 5 months 2 days ago) and read 4817 times:

Quoting Nycaross (Thread starter):
I was just wondering how B6 is doing with TUS-JFK flights and also how CO is doing with their flights
TUS-EWR. I sure hope that those flights are here to stay.

I dont think JFK-TUS is a good performer for B6. Loads arent great, I cant imagine that yield is that much better.


User currently offlineFlyboyaz From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 23 hours ago) and read 4772 times:

I can't say much about the B6 flight, except that it has cancelled quite a bit....due to ATC and weather in JFK. The CO EWR flight is full just about everyday. Usually 1 day a week or so it's light...booked to about 70-80 pax (out of 124), otherwise it's at at least 115. It is late constantly though, very bad performance that way. It will be going to daytime hours starting 9/5, 12:35pm departure. Then will go back to redeye in November I believe.

User currently offlineDesertAir From Mexico, joined Jan 2006, 1480 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 4596 times:

I am not tempted to take trips on airlines with only one flight a day like B6. When there are problems, there are few alternatives. With CO at least they could rebook you through Houston or on a Skyteam connection.

User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 4, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4448 times:
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Does the E90s have the range, necessary payload to fly JFK-TUS-JFK nonstop? It sounds like an a/c change might help?

LACA773


User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4443 times:

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):

Nice DP  Wink

Either way, it could technically do it (2136nm route vs 2400nm plane), but payload restrictions might come into play (someone more technical then me would know more)

piercey in CLE  Sad



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 6, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4429 times:

Quoting LACA773 (Reply 4):
Does the E90s have the range, necessary payload to fly JFK-TUS-JFK nonstop?



Quoting Piercey (Reply 6):

Either way, it could technically do it (2136nm route vs 2400nm plane), but payload restrictions might come into play (someone more technical then me would know more)

Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlinePiercey From Sweden, joined Nov 2005, 2233 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 4422 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 7):

Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles.

Wow do I feel like an idiot....  Sad

Thanks for catching that.

Well then, the E90 would be perfect for that route, question is, would B6 be willing to send it that far away from home (IIRC, they meant to get the E90s for East coast routes)

piercey in CLE  Sad



Well I believe it all is coming to an end. Oh well, I guess we are gonna pretend.
User currently offline777gk From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 1641 posts, RR: 18
Reply 8, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4405 times:

As I recall, Tucson's main strip is close to 11,000 feet long (may be more), which should allow virtually unrestricted 737-700 operations in most weather conditions. Tucson does not get quite as hot as Phoenix in the summertime, but the difference in field elevation (TUS is a fair bit higher) will make both airports behave similarly in terms of performance allowances.

To maximize an airplane's capability in the desert, you want to operate at the time of day when temperatures are at their lowest. In Tucson, this can be as much as a 40 degree difference between midday and midnight, so naturally redeyes are preferable with longer stage lengths using less capable equipment, like CO when EWR-TUS was 737-500 service.

I recall discussion that JFK-TUS would be a candidate for E90 service, but I'm not sure what came of that. Since such a route would certainly be pushing the limits of the E90's capability, you can bet that redeye timing would be kept all year long.


User currently offlineN1120A From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 26795 posts, RR: 75
Reply 9, posted (7 years 5 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 4398 times:

Quoting 777gk (Reply 9):
As I recall, Tucson's main strip is close to 11,000 feet long (may be more), which should allow virtually unrestricted 737-700 operations in most weather condition

Naturally. As it is, B6 uses the A320 on the route and doesn't appear to be having problems with it, despite having what are probably the shortest ranged A320-200s in the industry.

Quoting 777gk (Reply 9):

I recall discussion that JFK-TUS would be a candidate for E90 service, but I'm not sure what came of that. Since such a route would certainly be pushing the limits of the E90's capability, you can bet that redeye timing would be kept all year long.

Which makes sense for B6 anyway, given their penchant for redeye flights. If they did have the capacity for 2 flights, an A320 could easily be used to handle the daytime flight. Further, do you agree that the SAN/TUS comparison is valid, given the runway constraints at SAN offsetting the elevation to a decent extent. Further, the average high July temperature in TUS is under 100 degrees, which should be even lower if they choose a morning departure for a second flight.



Mangeons les French fries, mais surtout pratiquons avec fierte le French kiss
User currently offlineLACA773 From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 4064 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 5 months 8 hours ago) and read 4246 times:
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Quoting Piercey (Reply 5):

Nice DP

Thanks for the compliment. Btw, what's "DP"? Please forgive me if I'm a little slow right tonight..

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.

Thanks for the information N1120A. I apreicate it. I had been thinking that the E90s can do JFK-TUS-JFK since they are flown to YYZ on AC from SAN & AC also utilizes them from PHX.

Does anyone know if B6 is looking into subbing the E90 in place of the 320. If the route isn't performing well, maybe this will be the right size a/c for them.
It might open up other possibilites for other carriers to use the larger Embraer's on their longer thin routes out of Tucson where they can capture the upper class (whe a two class E90/95, E70/75 is used) who getway to the TUS area and the snowbirds etc.. Just a thought.

LACA773


User currently offlineSANFan From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 5595 posts, RR: 12
Reply 11, posted (7 years 5 months 4 hours ago) and read 4198 times:

Quoting N1120A (Reply 6):
Incorrect distance. JFK-TUS is 1856nm. You used statute miles. It also happens to be just a hair shorter than YYZ-SAN, which has been run by AC on an E90. TUS is at a higher altitude than SAN, but SAN has significant runway and obstruction limitations, so they should be pretty much even on performance.



Quoting LACA773 (Reply 10):
I had been thinking that the E90s can do JFK-TUS-JFK since they are flown to YYZ on AC from SAN & AC also utilizes them from PHX.

However, there were discussions around January and April of this year about the use of the 190 between SAN and YYZ and supposedly AC was not too happy with it. It was mentioned that there were many (unscheduled) fuel stops on the w/b flights and many occasions of leaving pax and/or cargo in YYZ in order to (hopefully) reach SAN n/s. In fact it was said that the flight was re-scheduled as an A-319 starting April 1 due more to operational considerations than loads even though AC may have rather stayed with the smaller a/c all year, even scheduling 2x daily 190 flights for the summer, offering a choice of departure times!

This is my recollection and summary of rumors and hearsay; nothing official was announced to the best of my knowledge so please take it in that manner. Nevertheless, the SAN-YYZ stage length (1874nm and about 4.5 hours) certainly used a healthy chunk of the range of the E-jet and so would JFK-TUS!

I'm not really sure about B6's configuration and payload limits of their 190s, and I don't pretend to know about desert temperature and altitude effects on a/c performance but I would guess that westbound flights from JFK to TUS would often need to make an unscheduled fuel stop. This unfortunately is not a new concept to B6 (  Wink ) but perhaps one that they would just as soon not have to deal with if they could avoid it with careful a/c selection and/or flight scheduling!

bb


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