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Air Transat To Go Non-stop YVR-CDG  
User currently offlineYVR1968 From Australia, joined Feb 2004, 704 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7316 times:

According to a post on YYZNEWS, Air Transat to start Vancouver - Paris non-stops flights next summer.

Air Transat (TS/TSC)
New Paris Route --Air Transat will re-launch a weekly non-stop service from Vancouver to Paris in 2008 --seven years after ending a similar service. "It was too early last time," Jean-Marc Eustache, President said. In 1999 to 2001 there weren't enough French travellers who wanted to visit the West Coast, but the market is there now. We know it and can feel it." The number of French visitors to B.C. rose by 3.4 per cent last year to 16,600 and by 16.2 per cent during the first quarter this year to 2,300, according to Tourism BC. Zoom Airlines operates a twice-a-week Vancouver to Paris non-stop service from June to September. The new seasonal Air Transat service, featuring a 362-seat Airbus A330 is expected to begin in May 2008. The current international air agreements prevent regularly-scheduled year-round daily service between Vancouver and Paris, forcing Paris-bound Vancouverites to catch connecting flights in other cities.

The article mentions Zoom Airlines as being non-stop, these are in fact 1-stop flights.

27 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineHowSwedeitis From Sweden, joined Jul 2007, 586 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7306 times:
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Quoting YVR1968 (Thread starter):
We know it and can feel it."

While I wouldnt really call that reliable; the 2010 WInter Olympics are coming up, and I can see a rising number of customers wanting to travel there. JUST AVOID DOWNTOWN NEAR HASTING & MAIN STREET!!  scared 



Heja Sverige!!
User currently offlineBoeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

Every airline will love YVR for the month during and prior to Vancouvr 2010. Doesn't surprise me at all!

User currently offlineImpacto From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 214 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7269 times:

Well its about time CDG gets a non-stop YVR service. Zoom makes a stop at Calgary. One will automatically assume an A330 will be utilized on this new service. Why did AC cease the non-stop operation on this route? I remember them flying this route 5 times weekly non-stop.

User currently offlineBoeingluvr From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7263 times:

Quoting Impacto (Reply 3):
Well its about time CDG gets a non-stop YVR service. Zoom makes a stop at Calgary. One will automatically assume an A330 will be utilized on this new service. Why did AC cease the non-stop operation on this route? I remember them flying this route 5 times weekly non-stop.

Yea you'd think they would have just reduced service if their flight loads were getting low. Oh well. I guess we don't see the oerall picture in AC's restructuring.


User currently offlineDYK From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 407 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Quoting Impacto (Reply 3):
Well its about time CDG gets a non-stop YVR service. Zoom makes a stop at Calgary. One will automatically assume an A330 will be utilized on this new service. Why did AC cease the non-stop operation on this route? I remember them flying this route 5 times weekly non-stop.

The believe it was yield? or possibly taking traffic from the YYZ-CDG flights?



AC,CP,PW,WD,ND,UA,AA,NW,CO,DL,WA,AS,QX,PR,SQ,AI,TG,MH,JL,9W,IC,UL,PG,BW,NZ,QF,DJ,BA,LH,KL,OA,OS,ME,RJ,HA,AQ
User currently offlineChinook747 From Canada, joined Mar 2007, 126 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 7234 times:

About time TS brings a Paris flight out of Western Canada. Zoom does very well with their seasonal Calgary-Paris flights...hopefully they will also bring this to Calgary

User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 7173 times:

Quoting DYK (Reply 5):
or possibly taking traffic from the YYZ-CDG flights?

No, that seems unlikely. YVR-YYZ is about 4.5 hours away and I don't think it would directly affect taking traffic or anything. I posted a similar topic on this about 2 years ago and someone replied to me saying that it was because the current bilateral between France and Canada don't permit a third port (YYZ, YUL already being there). But again this could be wrong information. I never knew that AC operated 5 times a week.

Then wouldn't it be safe to say that simply put, the market wasn't there like in Air Transat's case?



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7065 times:

Is this another Air Transat 9-abreast 29-in pitch spam-can service ? Hmmm, 10 hours of that, lovely ! I see the TS flight from YMX arriving in NCE, the pax look like they been on a death-march when they get off.

User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 9, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 7061 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 8):
Is this another Air Transat 9-abreast 29-in pitch spam-can service ?

Not any worse than AF's sardine-can COI-flights on B744 I had the misfortune to be on last April on CDG-HAV-CDG.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineJGPH1A From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 7008 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
I had the misfortune to be on last April on CDG-HAV-CDG.

And you were surprised ? AF have a captive market (their major competition is Corsair, who are even more sardine-can), why would they offer "comfort" or "customer service" when they don't have to ?


User currently offlineTriStar500 From Germany, joined Nov 1999, 4695 posts, RR: 42
Reply 11, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 9 hours ago) and read 6967 times:

I wasn't really surprised, but somewhat ashamed, because I had praised AF to my girlfriend (who had joined me on this trip) due to my previous good experiences on short- and longhaul flights before and had never imagined the COI-operations to be so shabby.

We both have vowed now to never fly a B744 in AF configuration again (at least not in Eco), not even for Flying Blue miles.



Homer: Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true!
User currently offlineMats From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 632 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

AIr Canada actually used to fly from Vancouver to Paris nonstop. This was--I believe--in the early to mid 90's. I don't know what equipment they used (767-300, probably), nor do I know how long the service lasted.

User currently offlineAY104 From Canada, joined Nov 2005, 505 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 6872 times:

Think I would stick to AC via YUL or YYZ, thank You. The configuration that Air Transat uses is about what I would expect on a 5-hour holiday to Mexico, but I'm not gonna do that across the Atlantic. Also, I have run into a few people now, who use Zoom a lot, and seem to be quite pleased with it. It sounds like their service in Y is really not a whole lot less than what AC does in Y, unless AC have improved greatly since my last trip about a year ago. Oddly enough, I found AC excellent YVR-YUL-YVR recently, the F/As did more in the 5 hours than they did on the Transatlantic.
Cheers,
AY104



The only thing a customer should expect for his/her loyalty is good service
User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1846 posts, RR: 4
Reply 14, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 6770 times:

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 11):
I wasn't really surprised, but somewhat ashamed, because I had praised AF to my girlfriend (who had joined me on this trip) due to my previous good experiences on short- and longhaul flights before and had never imagined the COI-operations to be so shabby.

We both have vowed now to never fly a B744 in AF configuration again (at least not in Eco), not even for Flying Blue miles.

try the upper deck next time. It's really much better


User currently offlineConnector4you From Canada, joined May 2001, 932 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 6728 times:

Quoting JGPH1A (Reply 10):
why would they offer "comfort" or "customer service" when they don't have to ?

That's right they don't have to. Management were "enlightened" by owners/shareholders that "customer service" doesn't fill their pockets. As we speak "customer service" it's history unless you can afford to travel business or upper class. In a recent trip with a major airline in Y, I have been served the ice cream before even getting a drink, mind you the lunch . . .

More likely those strange people who served us - sorry can't call them FA's although they wore airline uniform - were first time fliers. Unfortunately this is now a wide spread '"culture" in the travel industry.


User currently offlineMatt From Canada, joined May 1999, 698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 16, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 3 hours ago) and read 6676 times:

Quoting Mats (Reply 12):
AIr Canada actually used to fly from Vancouver to Paris nonstop. This was--I believe--in the early to mid 90's. I don't know what equipment they used (767-300, probably), nor do I know how long the service lasted.

Indeed, AC did fly nonstop YVR-CDG in the summer from 1994 to 1997.

1994 - twice a week, 767-200ER
1995 - twice a week, 767-200ER
1996 - three times a week, 767-200ER
1997 - three times a week, 767-200ER

Source: old Air Canada flight schedules.



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineEvolv From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 89 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 6475 times:

Does anyone know if Canada and France are working on an open skies agreement? If they are when is it expected to be announced?

User currently offlineGoldorak From France, joined Sep 2006, 1846 posts, RR: 4
Reply 18, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6226 times:

Quoting Evolv (Reply 17):
Does anyone know if Canada and France are working on an open skies agreement? If they are when is it expected to be announced?

After the signature of the EU/US open-sky agreement, Canada announced they would like to conclude a similar agreement with EU. So I think it will not be a specific new France-Canada agreement


User currently offlineAad665 From Germany, joined Dec 1999, 232 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 5 days ago) and read 6226 times:

Quoting Ktachiya (Reply 7):
No, that seems unlikely. YVR-YYZ is about 4.5 hours away and I don't think it would directly affect taking traffic or anything. I posted a similar topic on this about 2 years ago and someone replied to me saying that it was because the current bilateral between France and Canada don't permit a third port (YYZ, YUL already being there). But again this could be wrong information. I never knew that AC operated 5 times a week.

Hi,

I am the one!

Still, no change in the agreement.

French airlines have right between Papeete and YVR. Canadian airline from YVR to 2 points in France.

source: http://www.cta-otc.gc.ca/air-aerien/agreements/html/france_e.html

From a well informed source at AC, Yields was terrible for AC.

aad665


User currently offlineYULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2180 posts, RR: 5
Reply 20, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 5869 times:

I wish it were AF instead, or let's say AC. But no rights yet for AF, so it's out of question.

Quoting TriStar500 (Reply 9):
Not any worse than AF's sardine-can COI-flights on B744 I had the misfortune to be on last April on CDG-HAV-CDG.

The only difference with the rest of the fleet being the lack of PTV, older seats, longer lines for boarding and baggage claim because the aircraft has more seats. For the rest, service is the same (perhaps not in COI but YVR would not be COI for sure!). Obviously the comfort of a 744 can't match the one of a smaller A330-A340 or 777 (less sardine-can feeling due to less pax per aisle), but this is not an AF related issue...

I would rather compare AF 744s with some major European airlines who also fly sardine cans with no PTV such as L____a or I____a, including some of the world's latest generation aircraft.

TS 9-abreast on an Airbus has no possible comparison with any legacy, even an AF 744 or a LH or IB XXX. Do you expect free champagne on a TS flight by the way? So, before bashing airlines, check your facts first, please...

Last but not least, AF 744s are what they are because they will be replaced shortly by a mix of 77W and 388s... Meanwhile, TS will likely still be flying their 9-abreast sardine-can Airbuses.



When I doubt... go running!
User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25457 posts, RR: 22
Reply 21, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 22 hours ago) and read 5721 times:

Quoting Matt (Reply 16):
Indeed, AC did fly nonstop YVR-CDG in the summer from 1994 to 1997.

During that period AC had a few other routes that didn't last long, including YVR-ZRH, YYC-ZRH and YYZ-MAD. The ZRH routes were dropped when the Star Alliance arrived as it was more economic to codeshare via FRA. MAD was probably dropped about the same time.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 12
Reply 22, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 21 hours ago) and read 5430 times:

Quoting Matt (Reply 16):
1994 - twice a week, 767-200ER
1995 - twice a week, 767-200ER
1996 - three times a week, 767-200ER
1997 - three times a week, 767-200ER

It also flew as all 'Y' service. At the time, there was little or no demand for premium travel on the route.



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineMatt From Canada, joined May 1999, 698 posts, RR: 2
Reply 23, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 5224 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 22):
It also flew as all 'Y' service. At the time, there was little or no demand for premium travel on the route.

Yes, I believe they did.

Here are some other former AC Western Canada to Europe (seasonal) routes from the 90s:

1998
YVR-ZRH, 767-300ER, 1x/week
YVR-YYC-ZRH, 767-300ER, 1x/week

1997
YYC-ZRH, 767-300ER, 2x/week
YVR-ZRH, 767-300ER, 2x/week

1996
YVR-YYC-GLA, 767-200ER, 3x/week
YWG-LHR, 767-200ER, 2x/week

1995
YVR-YYC-GLA, 767-200ER, 2x/week
YWG-LHR, 767-200ER, 2x/week

1994
YVR-YYC-DUS, 767-200ER, 2x/week
YVR-YYC-GLA, 767-200ER, 1x/week
YWG-LHR,767-200ER, 2x/week

1993
YVR-LHR-DUS, 767-200ER, 1x/week
YWG-LHR, 767-200ER, 2x/week

1992
YVR-LHR-DUS, 767-200ER, 1x/week
YWG-LHR, 767-200ER, 1x/week

1991
YVR-LHR-DUS, L1011-500, 1x/week
YWG-LHR, 767-200ER, 1x/week

1990
YVR-LHR-DUS, L1011-500, 1x/week
YWG-YOW-LHR, L1011-500, 2x/week



Next flights: YQM-YYZ-YOW v.v. / YQM-CUN v.v. / YQM-YUL-YWG v.v. / YSJ-YYZ-SEA-SFO / SFO-YYZ-YOW-YQM / YQM-YYZ-MUC-TXL /
User currently offlineKtachiya From Japan, joined Sep 2004, 1794 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 2 months 1 week 4 days 15 hours ago) and read 4655 times:

Quoting YULWinterSkies (Reply 20):
I am the one!

Still, no change in the agreement.

French airlines have right between Papeete and YVR. Canadian airline from YVR to 2 points in France

Nice to hear from you after all these years. I must have lost my memory because I always thought that it was two points in Canada to France. My bad.... Hence I always thought only YYZ and YVR have those direct flights but considering that YYC has them as well........ What was I thinking?

So YVR to two points in France? Well I guess we won't see the second destination for a long time but with increased tourism, starting that route now might not be a bad idea. And with Vancouver starting to have all these brand shops (Hermes (new), Louis Vuitton), etc I would reckon that there must be some customers willing to pay the full price to go to CDG.



Flown on: DC-10-30, B747-200B, B747-300, B747-300SR, B747-400, B747-400D, B767-300, B777-200, B777-200ER, B777-300
25 TriStar500 : What is your problem? Have you ever flown the AF B744 on a COI flight? This is not about comparing one awful product with another one, I don't care i
26 ANother : The European Commission doesn't (yet) have the mandate from the Council of Ministers to negotiate anything, other than the Community Air Carrier clau
27 YVRLTN : TS will also get good $$ on cargo - and a 332 is better than a 763 for this. Our three biggest clients all have strong connections with France and thi
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