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Jet To Start SFO,LAX,ORD, And JFK In 2008  
User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 12292 times:

Interesting interview with Jet CEO Goyal on North American plans. I think the SFO and LAX routes will be connected through Shanghai, and ORD and JFK through BRU.
http://www1.economictimes.indiatimes..._US_flight/articleshow/2224622.cms

Quotes:
Private Indian carrier Jet Airways, which begins its US operations next month, has ruled out entering into a price war with other airlines and expects to attract passengers by offering top-class services. "We are not here to get into fare wars. We are here to give you the best product, which hopefully no other airline gives you," Chairman Jet Airways Naresh Goyal said in an interview posted on the website of Forbes magazine.

Goyal said American passenger-airlines "dump people" from one point to another. But "With us, you get a hot meal within a half-hour of takeoff. It's a three-course meal in every section of the airplane -- even in coach," he said. Asked by the interviewer how would be airline offer best quality service without raising fares, he said the carrier would increase productivity. "It's (productivity) higher and better than other carriers. Our cost ratio in aircraft is one of the lowest in the world," he said.

Jet makes its maiden US flight to Newark airport from Mumbai next month. This will be followed by Toronto on September 5 as part of efforts to tap the 800,000 Indians living in Canada, he said. "We'll start service to JFK, San Francisco, Chicago and L.A. (Los Angeles) in the next year," he added.

Goyal also dismissed views that Jet's planned expansion in North America was "too fast". "There is traffic already. You don't have to do anything and traffic exists. There are 2.5 million Indian-Americans living in the US. We want to serve that population. Also, Indian companies are becoming global. People in the west used to think India is something hidden. Today, US companies have so much

49 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineReadytotaxi From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2006, 3232 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12260 times:

Wow, CO you had better start upgrading your product fast, or get caught is the draft.


you don't get a second chance to make a first impression!
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8556 posts, RR: 13
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12260 times:
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no , unless this is an additional service LAX is also through BRU - this was announced several weeks ago in BRU

the intention is to have flights from 5 cities in India BOM ; DEL ; MAA ; BLR ; AMD to BRU and then continuing on to 5 North American airports : EWR ; YYZ ; LAX ; ORD ; JFK



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineSt530 From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 139 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12231 times:

Why not serve IAH, beat Air India to the punch, and take further advantage of the new CO codeshare?

User currently offlineLAXDESI From United States of America, joined May 2005, 5086 posts, RR: 48
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12190 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 2):
no , unless this is an additional service LAX is also through BRU - this was announced several weeks ago in BRU

the intention is to have flights from 5 cities in India BOM ; DEL ; MAA ; BLR ; AMD to BRU and then continuing on to 5 North American airports : EWR ; YYZ ; LAX ; ORD ; JFK

I stand corrected. Perhaps they should drop plans to route SFO through Shanghai and instead offer it through BRU and add HYD or CCU as an additional departure city on the Indian side.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8556 posts, RR: 13
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 18 hours ago) and read 12071 times:
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Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
I stand corrected. Perhaps they should drop plans to route SFO through Shanghai and instead offer it through BRU and add HYD or CCU as an additional departure city on the Indian side.

perhaps - my understanding is that the rights for PVG-SFO are by no means certain whereas the Belgian government has , I believe , granted 9W unlimited rights - the only problem is that India to SFO via BRU is a lot further than via SHA
( although the same argument could be made for LAX )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20561 posts, RR: 62
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11970 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
the only problem is that India to SFO via BRU is a lot further than via SHA

A popular run, the "Bangalore Express", SFO-FRA-BLR, is actually shorter than the current AI offering over the Pacific via TPE/HKG and SIN, and much more convenient, since there isn't a 9-hour layover in FRA, like there is to the best connection at SIN.

SFO-FRA-BLR 10313 mi.
SFO-TPE-SIN-BLR 10437 mi.

The real breakthroughs will be service via PVG, or some other spot in the Far East not as far south as SIN, or nonstop. Otherwise, BRU is just as convenient a stopover from the west coast as FRA seems to be, only 26 miles further.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8556 posts, RR: 13
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 17 hours ago) and read 11920 times:
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Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
popular run, the "Bangalore Express", SFO-FRA-BLR, is actually shorter than the current AI offering over the Pacific via TPE/HKG and SIN, and much more convenient, since there isn't a 9-hour layover in FRA, like there is to the best connection at SIN.

SFO-FRA-BLR 10313 mi.
SFO-TPE-SIN-BLR 10437 mi.

The real breakthroughs will be service via PVG, or some other spot in the Far East not as far south as SIN, or nonstop. Otherwise, BRU is just as convenient a stopover from the west coast as FRA seems to be, only 26 miles further.

good point , although when you compare onestop services such as DEL-BRU-SFO (8276 nm ) to DEL-PGV-SFO (7666 nm) or BLR-BRU-SFO ( 8984 nm ) to BLR-PVG-SFO ( 8012 nm) you get a more significant difference , on the other hand , I cant see the Chinese government permitting a BRU style hub operation at PVG for 9W and if the flights are timed well at BRU you may still be talking a shorter overall transit time over a much larger number of city pairs ( as well as making life a great deal more convenient for those of us living in BRU Big grin )



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11848 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 6):
The real breakthroughs will be service via PVG, or some other spot in the Far East not as far south as SIN, or nonstop.

....AI is commencing BLR-SFO nonstop very soon..that will beat any connections...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20561 posts, RR: 62
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 16 hours ago) and read 11792 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
....AI is commencing BLR-SFO nonstop very soon..that will beat any connections...

That's what I said, didn't I? That's one on my list where the real breakthroughs will come.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offlineN62NA From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 4456 posts, RR: 7
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 14 hours ago) and read 11609 times:

I just checked the price for First class EWR-BRU for September - it's about $10,000/person roundtrip. Yes, that sounds like alot of $$$, but it's $6,000 cheaper than AA to LHR in F class.

And oh, that private suite that they have in F class on 9W. It looks great!


User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11471 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 9):
Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
....AI is commencing BLR-SFO nonstop very soon..that will beat any connections...

That's what I said, didn't I? That's one on my list where the real breakthroughs will come.

...er no, not really..you were discussing that it would be advantageous to fly nonstop....not the fact AI was definitely going to start flying BLR-SFO nonstop....big difference...



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineAeroWesty From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 20561 posts, RR: 62
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 11381 times:

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 11):
not the fact AI was definitely going to start flying BLR-SFO nonstop....big difference...

Well we've heard a lot of definites from AI, haven't we?  Wink What's under discussion here are the connection possibilities and how they relate to Jet Airways. Not everyone will be flying the nonstop on AI, even if it comes to fruition.



International Homo of Mystery
User currently offline28thguy From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 114 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 11320 times:

I can't imagine that Jet Airways would get rights from U.S.-China when they seem to be in such short supply for U.S. carriers. Wishful thinking, it seems to me.

User currently offlineJacobin777 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 14968 posts, RR: 60
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 11107 times:

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
Well we've heard a lot of definites from AI, haven't we?  Wink

....I guess with AI, one never knows, so I guess in a way you are correct...I'm only going by published material.. Wink

Quoting AeroWesty (Reply 12):
What's under discussion here are the connection possibilities and how they relate to Jet Airways. Not everyone will be flying the nonstop on AI, even if it comes to fruition.

.......as you know, in A.net-land, anything and everything is under discussion.. spin ....but on a more serious note, AI's announced BLR-SFO flight is something of importance, especially if it happens.......

I look for this flight to be quite successful....



"Up the Irons!"
User currently offlineORDagent From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 823 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10991 times:

Haven't they overlooked that they are going up against AA & CO with nonstop service to the Sub Continent? In Y to save a buck a VFR pax will ride the back of a duck. It's the premium cabins that won't.

User currently offlineSFO777200LR From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 10 hours ago) and read 10729 times:

Quoting LAXDESI (Reply 4):
Perhaps they should drop plans to route SFO through Shanghai and instead offer it through BRU

Well UA is the only carrier to PVG to/from SFO while there are many options (although not direct) to BRU. And PVG is by far a more popular destination than BRU from the Bay Area, especially with the booming economy and buidling in PVG.


User currently offlineKaitak744 From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 2373 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10016 times:

Current Long Haul fleet (or on order):
10 777-300ER
10 A330-200
10 787-8

AMD-LHR -- A330-200
ATQ-LHR -- A330-200
BOM-LHR -- 777-300ER
DEL-LHR -- 777-300ER
BOM-PVG-SFO -- 777-300ER
(India)-BRU 5x daily -- 777-300ER
BRU-LAX -- 777-300ER
BRU-ORD -- 777-300ER
BRU-JFK -- 777-300ER
BRU-EWR -- 777-300ER
BRU-YYZ -- 777-300ER

So, they will need at least 20 777-300ERs to sustain this operation. I doubt they would use the A330-200s to the U.S., given that they speak of such high market demand.

Remaining A330-200s to be used on routes to S.E.Asia and Middle East?
787-8s to be used on nonstop services to the U.S.?
Order for at least 10 777-300ERs? If not, how will they serve all those cities by 2008?

P.S. given that they will have a hub operation at BRU, in order to provide minimum connection times, they will need at least 5 777-300ER sized gates to be used at once. I looked on Google Earth, and I can't really find where the heavy gates are.


User currently offlineKiwiandrew From New Zealand, joined Jun 2005, 8556 posts, RR: 13
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 10002 times:
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Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
BRU-YYZ -- 777-300ER



Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
(India)-BRU 5x daily -- 777-300ER

you are assuming that all services will be operated by the 773s - this is not correct , since , at least to start with , the DEL-BRU-YYZ will be an A330 , I would imagine that some of the other services starting next year India-North America will also be A330 services , at least until they build up loads



Moderation in all things ... including moderation ;-)
User currently offlineKaran69 From India, joined Oct 2004, 2887 posts, RR: 18
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 9513 times:

Quoting Kiwiandrew (Reply 5):
erhaps - my understanding is that the rights for PVG-SFO are by no means certain whereas the Belgian government has , I believe , granted 9W unlimited rights

From the ASA

42 weekly services - with not more than 21 to a single destination

5th freedom - "the designated airlines of both parties shall enjoy the fifth freedom traffic rights on the intermediate and/or beyond points specified in Route Schedule for combination services respectively subject to not more than 14 weekly frequencies be operated by any designated airlines of either party to any beyond point"

Route schedule for "combination services" (Cargo + Pax)

Indian carriers are allowed "Any points in India - any 3 intermediate point - any 6 points in China - any 3 beyond points with not more than 2 points in one region"

Chinese carriers are allowed "Any points in China - any 3 intermediate points - any 6 points in India - any 3 beyond points with not more than 2 points in one region"

Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 8):
AI is commencing BLR-SFO nonstop very soon..that will beat any connections...



Quoting Jacobin777 (Reply 14):
I'm only going by published material.. Wink

Ha ha whatever published,  wink 

When AI announced the order Ai was saying BOM-SFO,
Then that changed to DEL-SFO,
Then in the EXIM BANK document submitted they said BLR-FRA-SFO, along with scissor type operations for SFO and LAX from BOM/DEL/MAA via FRA

And now as you said "published material" suggests BLR-SFO.

I have a feeling VJM and his KF will use all their govt and political power and take first claim on this route.

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):
(India)-BRU 5x daily -- 777-300ER

I doubt you will ever see that happen, if the market even develops they will probably base the 77Ws there---i dont think even the biggest Diamond boom can support daily 77Ws from HYD/AMD/CCU/MAA to BRU even if they are going on to USA.

Besides DEL-BRU-YYZ is already an 330 for the current schedule.

Karan


User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 9358 times:

Quoting Karan69 (Reply 19):
I have a feeling VJM and his KF will use all their govt and political power and take first claim on this route.

Still hasn't gotten him international rights!

9W will need more planes for the intl opns - because they also need to upgrade their SE Asia planes - those 737's cannot match up to the widebodies used by SQ, MH and TG. Don't be surprised if the large bank of 787's with ILFC and GECAS start getting placed to 9W - expect some 789's also!



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8837 times:

Quoting ORDagent (Reply 15):
Haven't they overlooked that they are going up against AA & CO with nonstop service to the Sub Continent? In Y to save a buck a VFR pax will ride the back of a duck. It's the premium cabins that won't.

Yes and no. AA only offers a ORD-DEL option while CO only offers EWR-BOM/DEL. This way 9W will offer about 25 options on a 1-stop (assuming 5 cities on each end connecting via BRU), and with service and facilities that are superior to AA or CO.

But on the (few) non-stop sectors (like ORD-DEL), I think AA will have the advantage over 9W for passengers wishing exactly that city pair.



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineBrubiac From Bouvet Island, joined Nov 2003, 217 posts, RR: 7
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8823 times:

Quoting Kaitak744 (Reply 17):

P.S. given that they will have a hub operation at BRU, in order to provide minimum connection times, they will need at least 5 777-300ER sized gates to be used at once. I looked on Google Earth, and I can't really find where the heavy gates are.

In BRU, Terminal B, there are 11 stands that can park the 77W.

Next service to the US will begin on 15th February 2008: BLR - BRU - JFK with 77W



BRU a small airport in a big world.
User currently offlineNimish From India, joined Feb 2005, 3224 posts, RR: 9
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8802 times:

Quoting Brubiac (Reply 22):
Next service to the US will begin on 15th February 2008: BLR - BRU - JFK with 77W

Is this confirmed? Not heard the announcement in the Indian media yet (not that they have too much of a clue)...



Latest Trip Report - GoAir BLR-BOM-BLR
User currently offlineCricket From India, joined Aug 2005, 2967 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 1 week 5 days 1 hour ago) and read 8738 times:

Quoting Nimish (Reply 21):
But on the (few) non-stop sectors (like ORD-DEL), I think AA will have the advantage over 9W for passengers wishing exactly that city pair.

See, not the entire traffic of AA's ORD-DEL or CO's EWR-DEL is O&D. A significant amount of people connect onto these flights as well - yet I assume very few 9W passengers will be flying beyond the arrival destination. 9W's advantage is the connectvity they offer in India.

But then again, when flying the US one-stop they will have to convince a lot of people to give up BA Club World! Especially when T5 comes up. I'm sure they can do it, but as long as BOM stays as awful as it is....



A300B2/B4/6R, A313, A319/320/321, A333, A343, A388, 737-2/3/4/7/8/9, 747-3/4, 772/2E/2L/3, E170/190, F70, CR2/7, 146-3,
25 Post contains images Karan69 : i know mate thats why i said he will flex his political and bank muscle's to the fullest Agree, but even on the 737s with the IFE they offer superior
26 Ourboeing : I thought they were going to start serving IAD also? Now, how many widebodies do they have in hand at this point? OURBOEING
27 Cricket : True, I used the IFE on a BLR-DEL flight - and only SQ comes close. Yet, in terms of sheer comfort give me a widebody anyday. I actually miss the A30
28 Mk777 : I am surprised too, that there is no mention of IAD. I am wondering why the Indian airlines' are overlooking a route which could prove quite a money
29 Aarbee : Agree, E.g., I think there is traffic from AMD, but not warranting a T7, A330 should suffice.
30 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....sure carriers sometimes axe an announced route before they start flying...but now that they are getting the aircrafts possible for this route, it
31 Concorde001 : Wouldn't ATQ-BRU make sense too? 9W already do ATQ-LHR and AI does DEL-ATQ-BHX-YYZ. There are large Punjabi communities in the US and Canada...
32 Mk777 : I think 9W will do quite well. I am not a big fan of LH or its FRA hub. And i am sure a lot of Indians would prefer flying on the airline that speaks
33 Kaitak744 : So, maybe something like this? AMD-LHR -- A330-200 ATQ-LHR -- A330-200 BOM-LHR -- 777-300ER DEL-LHR -- 777-300ER BOM-PVG-SFO -- 777-300ER (India)-BRU
34 Brubiac : Not officially, but they have the slots already. I find it strange that, approx. 6 weeks before starting DEL - BRU - YYZ, you still can't book it on
35 Concorde001 : BOM-LHR is currently double daily, operated by 2 773s.
36 N62NA : But 9W has the best F product of all of them - a private, close the door, personal suite. And 9W on EWR-BRU is charging only $10,000 r/t BA's F class
37 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ....BA has a huge Indian market following also..... ...while you are right about LHR, FRA isn't bad, and if one is flying only with BA, then there is
38 Mptpa : Speaking of FF programs and O&D traffic, NW/KLm has a relationship with Jet for intra-asian/Indian flights. What do you think the chances are that the
39 Spark : The connections between SFO and India have always perplexed me, because it seems that airlines have essentially ceded that traffic to SQ, which is a l
40 Post contains images Gr8Circle : You've not been reading the threads about 9W's service...you wouldn't be saying this otherwise... Again, you've not been upto date with news on India
41 Post contains images JRDC930 : 9W's service seems to be targeted at competing with the U.S. carriers specifically, it is these carriers that will suffer from 9W's vastly superior s
42 Jacobin777 : ...but its still a "one-stop" deal and unless fares are cheaper to much cheaper, they will not give up their nonstop service for a one-stop service..
43 JRDC930 : Good point, non-stops are tough to beat, and ill be honest; I'm not too familiar with what 9W plans to be charging on the routes, however i still thi
44 Nimish : The reasons that SQ does well on the India SFO route are: 1. Impeccable quality, Indian food, Great IFE, they hold up SQ16 to wait for the Indian con
45 Cricket : Not quite BA's fault - rather BAA's but strange that these problems never affect VS - My father for example has switched loyalties completely to Bran
46 Post contains images Ourboeing : I completely agree. 9W is flying the routes that big boys like AA and CO serve and that too non-stop. If I were to make a choice of flying ORD/EWR to
47 Nimish : And this is especially relevant in the Indian winter when DEL becomes a nightmare. And the US east coast/mid-west weather systems are anyway very unr
48 Post contains images Mk777 : i think AI should steal this route from 9W, just like they are trying to steal the BOM-JFK non-stop route. They could easily deploy their 772LR's on
49 CO787EWR : I believe that the US majors wont have to worry that much they are flying non-stop which J customers perfer and those are the money makers.
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