Nothing too new in there... until the 2nd and 3rd to the end paragraphs:
The problem is regional, as the same mix of rising air traffic and aging infrastructure has taxed air systems in neighboring Argentina, said former Argentine pilot Enrique Pineyro, who has been a leading critic of his country's air traffic system.
Argentine flight controllers had been working without radar control since March 1, when lightning destroyed the country's only certified radar. Although government officials say the radar was repaired and has been operating since July 9, it has since failed at least three times, Pineyro said.
Aren't there certain standards that need to be met before USA airlines (and I presume European too) are permitted by their "home" authorities to fly to a certain location?
Cloudyapple From Hong Kong, joined Jul 2005, 2425 posts, RR: 9 Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 1889 times:
Radar is not a necessity for ATC. Not too long ago everyone was controlling procedurally - ie HF position reporting and calculating times and distances. Just like we do now everyday for all transatlantic and transpacific flights.
Nowadays we have wonderful radars. But they do go out of service from time to time so procedural control should be the back up in the case. The airspace will be run at reduced capacity but at least some service can be maintained. There should be no need to shut the airspace.
YWG From Canada, joined Feb 2001, 1140 posts, RR: 2 Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 1866 times:
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 2): HF position reporting and calculating times and distances
That's a lot of work for congested airspace like Sao Paulo. Not to mention a whole new level of "pain in the ass" for the controllers who will have to dust off their stop watches.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 1788 times:
Quoting Bullpitt (Reply 1): I heard the Spanish Army was going to send one over, does anyone know if they actually did?
Not one, but two. They are leased until the radars ordered to state-owned company INVAP are ready. One of them is installed and the other one is in the process - also EZE's radar has been fixed. The first spanish radar went into OPS last week, so now, control is normal - but due to a judicial restraint order, take offs and landings are limited with a 10 minute interval between each.
Quoting Cloudyapple (Reply 2): Radar is not a necessity for ATC. Not too long ago everyone was controlling procedurally - ie HF position reporting and calculating times and distances.
This is still actually done in our country, far away from the busiest terminals (Baires -AEP/EZE- and COR).
Quoting YWG (Reply 3): That's a lot of work for congested airspace like Sao Paulo. Not to mention a whole new level of "pain in the ass" for the controllers who will have to dust off their stop watches.
Exactly - this causes major delays in airspaces as "small" as EZE. Which usually gets around 12 million people a year.
Quoting N62NA (Thread starter): Aren't there certain standards that need to be met before USA airlines (and I presume European too) are permitted by their "home" authorities to fly to a certain location?
No. Brazil and Argentina are CAT 1 countries.
Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
Arcano From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2396 posts, RR: 27 Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 1 day ago) and read 1733 times:
This has been widely posted in Chile due all the delays to and from the always appealing Buenos Aires.
Actually, a month ago the lack of radar (surface radar I think) almost made one Lan Chile 767 collide another 767 (AM). The pilot got to see the other aircraft in the runway and could fully brake the airport in time.
That situation was very bad, for what I've heard. Perhaps our LAN insider can give us further details about this.
Regards )(
in order: 721,146,732,763,722,343,733,320,772,319,752,321,88,83,744,332,100,738, 333, 318, 77W, 78, 773 and 380
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 22 hours ago) and read 1704 times:
Quoting Arcano (Reply 5): Actually, a month ago the lack of radar (surface radar I think) almost made one Lan Chile 767 collide another 767 (AM).
It was an LA A340 (IIRC, it was CC-CQC - RJ_Delta might need to back me up on this one) with an AM 767. And the fault was reportedly admitted by the AM crew who didn't obey the hold short instructions. Ground issues have NOTHING to do with radar malfunctions.
Quoting Arcano (Reply 5): That situation was very bad, for what I've heard.
Then you're deaf. (yes, it's a freaking joke)
The situation is only worsened by the media talking about something they don't know. We've been flying like this for years, nothing's changed - only the media repercusion.
2 radars are working now, and everything seems safe. A third is coming up sometime August.
EDIT: My 2000th post will not go unobserved
Gastón - The MD11junkie
[Edited 2007-07-24 05:22:16]
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
RJ_Delta From Chile, joined Oct 2000, 1943 posts, RR: 13 Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 21 hours ago) and read 1667 times:
Also the principal problems are in Buenos Aires, BAIRES Control, not all of the country, as MD11junkie said. As far as I know, Cordoba was works normal and Mendoza radar operates normal too, confirmed by AR and LA pilots. However for precaution all traffic are separate with a 10 minutes of interval.
According of the situation the Santiago Radar and Santiago Radar Norte (Antofagasta) send all traffic to Argentina with 10 minutes of separation, specially if the traffic are inbound to BAIRES area.The traffics inbound to Brazil or Europe from Chile operates normally without restriction. In some case the Santiago Radar provides information to the traffic or help to Mendoza.
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 1621 times:
Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8): My rant for the evening.......Still mad I got stuck in EZE 7/9/07 for lack of deicing equipment! Had to waste a day of vacation.
So, we need to have deicing equipment for a snow storm that occurs once every 89 years? Pffft, that's ridiculous. Give me a break.
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
EZEIZA From Argentina, joined Aug 2004, 4929 posts, RR: 28 Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 1615 times:
Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8): My rant for the evening.......Still mad I got stuck in EZE 7/9/07 for lack of deicing equipment! Had to waste a day of vacation.
As Gaston mentions, it would not be logical to have that kind of equipment for something that happens once evry century. It's unfortunate to be stuck in an airport, but on that particular day it was nobody's fault, except for global warning In fact, you should be greatful, you witnessed a historic moment for this city
What is really bad is being stuck at AEP every day because of lack of .... well, I don't know why, it seems to be out of control, but the last 2 days have been pretty chaotic (especially since these days are also the first days of the winter vacation season!)
NA747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 117 posts, RR: 1 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 14 hours ago) and read 1606 times:
I'm glad to see te radar situation back to normal.
For those months the AA flts arrived late every single morning, causing hundreds of paxs to misconnect.
The first item in the morning at work was "let's see how late the flts are coming in and how many misconnects".
LVTMB From United States of America, joined Oct 2004, 380 posts, RR: 0 Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 10 hours ago) and read 1551 times:
Quoting Arcano (Reply 5): Actually, a month ago the lack of radar (surface radar I think) almost made one Lan Chile 767 collide another 767 (AM). The pilot got to see the other aircraft in the runway and could fully brake the airport in time.
Sounds like as runway incursion, absolutely unrelated to the topic being discussed.
Quoting Akizidy214 (Reply 8): My rant for the evening.......Still mad I got stuck in EZE 7/9/07 for lack of deicing equipment! Had to waste a day of vacation.
I am curious here. My understanding is that the radar that was fried by lightning back in March left the Baires Terminal area without radar coverage. Is that where the leased radar went to? And where is the other one going to?
MD11junkie From Argentina, joined May 2005, 3091 posts, RR: 60 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 9 hours ago) and read 1529 times:
Quoting LVTMB (Reply 13): I am curious here. My understanding is that the radar that was fried by lightning back in March left the Baires Terminal area without radar coverage. Is that where the leased radar went to? And where is the other one going to?
MB, it was fried but it was not 'unrepairable'. It was repaired and put back into service, though it was considered only an aid. The first Spanish radar is installed in Morón (no jokes from you, english speaking people ) Air Base, and the second one is said to be going to Quilmes.
As soon as the other radars come into service, the Air Force will test the accuracy of the original Baires Terminal radar. So far, it's only a "secondary" radar.
Now, the deal remains in revoking the sentence dictated by a judge issuing a 10 minutes clearance between planes.
Gastón - The MD11junkie
There is no such thing as Boeing vs Airbus as the queen of the skies has three engines, winglets and the sweetest nose!
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This is still actually done in our country, far away from the busiest terminals (Baires -AEP/EZE- and COR).
From Chile, joined Mar 2004, 2396 posts, 
(yes, it's a freaking joke)
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In fact, you should be greatful, you witnessed a historic moment for this city 
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