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"Pan Am" Drops HVN  
User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 439 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 6 hours ago) and read 3508 times:

About five months after starting service.

Not a surprise.

http://www.nhregister.com/site/news....=1281&PAG=461&dept_id=590581&rfi=6

20 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineScottB From United States of America, joined Jul 2000, 6797 posts, RR: 32
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3401 times:

Quoting HVNandrew (Thread starter):
About five months after starting service.

I'm glad I was sitting down when I read this because otherwise I would have fallen over in shock...



User currently offlineMSYtristar From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3378 times:

They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.

User currently offlineMainland From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 309 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 5 hours ago) and read 3337 times:

It looks like this will mean the end of service to BWI too.

Again.



You don't need a passport to know what state you're in...
User currently offlineFreshlove1 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 4 hours ago) and read 3249 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.

They are not in it to make money. The parent company is a railroad company and they need the airline to lose money so they can get a tax write off. Pan Am never stays around anywhere for to long and there have never really been any routes that made consistant money. The only real money making section of the airline is their charter operations.


User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 5
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3034 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is i still going?


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlineM404 From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 2227 posts, RR: 5
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 3032 times:
Support Airliners.net - become a First Class Member!

Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is it still going?


Less sarcasm and more thought equal better understanding
User currently offlinePWM2TXLHopper From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 1343 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 4 days 1 hour ago) and read 2995 times:

Quoting M404 (Reply 6):
Was it their 737s that were supposed to serve Tunica MS from Atlanta? If not whom and is it still going?

The current Pan Am never has had 737's. Its an all 727-200 operation, of which I believe a lot are ex-UA aircraft?. I'm not sure if they are still flying ATL-Tunica? They were last year though, I know that.


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 2764 times:

No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

I recently looked at booking a flight into HVN on Orbitz, and Continental had me routed through EWR with a connection on Amtrak.

I think Larry DeNardis should stop trying to build up Tweed, and work more with the state officials who are trying to gain control of Bridgeport's airport. BDR could realistically serve Connecticut's only thriving office market in Stamford. It's the same distance from Midtown Manhattan as SWF, and its sits out in the sound, unlike HPN which is surrounded by $2 million homes in Greenwich and Westchester. Rename it New York - Sikorsky (f*** the Port Authority if they don't like it), and start recruiting some Dash-8 services to PHL, EWR, and IAD, while working on getting 11/29 extended 2000 feet for RJs, 737s, and A320s.


User currently offlinePintail From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 14 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 2663 times:

HVN needs a resumption of DCA service. Prior to 9-11, US Expresst flew 3x per day on weekdays, and the Dash8's were full. I believe Sen. Lieberman and Rep. DeLauro took these flights routinely. HVN could pick up other services when the runway safety zones are built, and Dodge Ave. is relocated...dash8- -400 services?

User currently offlineHumberside From United Kingdom, joined Dec 2005, 4927 posts, RR: 4
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2578 times:

I take it TTN-Bedford must do well for Pan Am since it seems to be one of the few routes which has been around for a while


Visit the Air Humberside Website and Forum
User currently offlineMasseyBrown From United States of America, joined Dec 2002, 5512 posts, RR: 7
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2552 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

American, Eastern, and Allegheny, too, if you go back a bit farther.

The Bridgeport proposal might work; you'd think something would.



I love long German words like 'Freundschaftsbezeigungen'.
User currently offlinePositiverate From United States of America, joined May 2005, 1590 posts, RR: 8
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 13 hours ago) and read 2526 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
No surprise, like Pilgrim Airways, Air Wisconsin, United, and Comair before them, Pan Am has just learned about the New Haven curse.

Pilgrim and NewAir (NewHaven Air) did well there in those days. Remember though that they were all folded into the BusinessExpress operation as Delta Connection, which then was bought up by American Eagle as I recall.


User currently offlineYNGguins From United States of America, joined Jun 2007, 511 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2516 times:

I view Pan Am as an abomination in the aviation industry. The owner is a joke, the airline is a joke, the planes are old, and they never stay in a city more than 6 months. NO AIRPORT SHOULD ALLOW THEM TO COME INTO THEIR CITY!


I am PROUD to live in the greatest country on earth: The United States of America!
User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2470 times:

Quoting Pintail (Reply 9):



Quoting Pintail (Reply 9):
HVN needs a resumption of DCA service. Prior to 9-11, US Expresst flew 3x per day on weekdays, and the Dash8's were full. I believe Sen. Lieberman and Rep. DeLauro took these flights routinely. HVN could pick up other services when the runway safety zones are built, and Dodge Ave. is relocated...dash8- -400 services?

One thing that might hurt that is Acela, which wasn't around pre 9/11. I'm actually doing a DC-New Haven run this weekend on Amtrak.

And it's not just the train, there simply isn't enough commercial office space around New Haven to support business travelers. And what does exist is mostly in Shelton, on the Fairfield County side. I think the best hope for HVN is air taxis like Open Air and Linear Air. Better for So Conn to consolidate its commercial efforts around BDR which is in a much better position to access NY Metro/Fairfield County office workers.


User currently offlineCitrusCritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1126 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 2437 times:

Quoting YNGguins (Reply 13):
I view Pan Am as an abomination in the aviation industry

When I was at SFB last Thursday to take G4 to GSP, "Pan Am" was running a charter to Costa Rica out of the domestic terminal. They were supposed to leave 30 minutes before my G4 flight, but when I boarded, they were delayed for "a couple of hours" because of MX problems. I got a (bad) picture of their 727...I couldn't get a clear shot, but it very much seemed like an abomination.


User currently offlineHVNandrew From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 439 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2371 times:

Quoting Iaddca (Reply 8):
I think Larry DeNardis should stop trying to build up Tweed, and work more with the state officials who are trying to gain control of Bridgeport's airport. BDR could realistically serve Connecticut's only thriving office market in Stamford. It's the same distance from Midtown Manhattan as SWF, and its sits out in the sound, unlike HPN which is surrounded by $2 million homes in Greenwich and Westchester. Rename it New York - Sikorsky (f*** the Port Authority if they don't like it), and start recruiting some Dash-8 services to PHL, EWR, and IAD, while working on getting 11/29 extended 2000 feet for RJs, 737s, and A320s.

I agree with that in theory... BDR is actually closer to midtown than SWF, it has a small terminal, but has the physical space around it to expand into. It is literally five minutes from downtown Bridgeport (though, that doesn't count for alot these days...), but also a couple minutes drive from the massive Shelton office parks, and the loaded bedroom communities of Fairfield and Westport.

But I would be shocked if commercial air service ever came back to BDR. The NIMBYs around BDR are worse than those around HVN. A proposal almost went through a few months ago which called for the demolition of BDR, and building an office park on the site. As it is now, the runway is too small to fly any fully loaded commercial plane into, except for B1900s, I believe. Nobody has even serviced the airport since US pulled their last flights out in '99.


User currently offlineIaddca From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 286 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 2316 times:

BDR does have the US Helicopter service to EWR, might have to check that out sometime.

If HVN ever gets Washington area service again, I hope they're smart enough to realize that BWI has Washington in its name, but is really Baltimore's airport, and the flights it attracts reflect that. It has weak connections to the West Coast, almost no service to Europe, plus most of the growth here is on the other side of Washington in Northern Virginia.


User currently offlineHighflier92660 From United States of America, joined Apr 2004, 689 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 2175 times:

What a waste of an historic certificate. At least Pan Am II flying Airbus A300s from 1996 to 1998 gave reasonably priced transcontinental luxury an attempt. One would think a similar A300 sized aircraft with Clipper Class service would really be welcomed by a segment of the market in these days of downsized aircraft and "fetal position" seats. From all I can obtain on the web, Pan Am II flew from LAX-JFK-MIA and the Caribbean with the traditional white linen table cloth/ fine china/ gourmet meal service of the old flag carrier until it ran into financial problems merging with Carnival airlines. Today's version is largely a Boeing 727-200 charter airline painted up with a blue ball.

User currently offlineBatonOps From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 750 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 2119 times:

Quoting MSYtristar (Reply 2):
They need to just shut down the operation permanently. Flying J31's to Elmira and Portsmouth and Bedford is not the way to make money.

So what's left...ELM, BED, TTN, and PSM? Anyone have a clue on how weel the ELM-BED route does?


User currently offlineSacamojus From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 228 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 week 3 days 1 hour ago) and read 1916 times:

Why even have any scheduled service? I can see operating as a charter company with 727's, but there is no need for the name "Pan Am" to be used as a marketing ploy?

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