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TAM Creating Chaos At GRU  
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11707 times:

Brazilian passengers are now afraid of flying from and to CGH. Pilots refuse to land at CGH under the smallest sign of rain. In response to that, TAM has cancelled most of its operations today at CGH and is transferring some to GRU. In addition, CGH was closed until 8:50 am, because of fog. Passengers at GRU are facing a 2 hours wait in order to check-in, since the line is so big it has reached Terminal 2.
The weather is supposed to get worse throughout the day, since rain is expected and G3/RG might as well follow TAM and transfer the flights to GRU. If they don't, it is expected that the pilots do that anyway, because of the pilot agreement of boycotting CGH when it's raining. Reflexes can be seen all over the country, specially BSB, GIG and POA.
Let's hope that traffic is not interrupted as it was the other day, because GRU could not accommodate more aircrafts.

[Edited 2007-07-24 15:56:06]

114 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTACAA320 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 22 hours ago) and read 11700 times:

Foreigners Say Brazil Needs Outside Aviation Help (by TACAA320 Jul 24 2007 in Civil Aviation)

Things apparently are getting worse in Brazil.


User currently offlineVbeltraJJ From Brazil, joined Apr 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11565 times:

I think it is not totally fair to say TAM is creating chaos. I think with all the problems airlines, passengers and many others have been facing since last September, this is only a reflex. Anyway, let´s pray for something good in this dark era.

Cheers.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 3, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11531 times:

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 2):
I think it is not totally fair to say TAM is creating chaos. I think with all the problems airlines, passengers and many others have been facing since last September, this is only a reflex. Anyway, let´s pray for something good in this dark era.

Cheers.

It's their choice to divert to GRU. They could easily divert to GIG. There were no lines yesterday at TAM's check-in counters at GIG during most part of the day.


User currently offlineLuisca From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 4, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11434 times:

My opinion is this is a knee jerk reaction, the runway lengh at CGH is not unheard of or extremely dangerous, all the airport needs is some improvements, like grooving and breakable concrete in overrun areas and the airport would be perfectly safe for most operations.

User currently offlineVbeltraJJ From Brazil, joined Apr 2007, 83 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11402 times:

Is it TAM´s choice that even Gol and Varig are diverting to GRU also? I am no quite sure....anyway, that´s a point of view.

Cheers.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 6, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 21 hours ago) and read 11363 times:

Quoting VbeltraJJ (Reply 5):
Is it TAM´s choice that even Gol and Varig are diverting to GRU also? I am no quite sure....anyway, that´s a point of view.

Cheers.



Quoting C010T3 (Thread starter):
since rain is expected and G3/RG might as well follow TAM and transfer the flights to GRU

I was not saying that TAM would have anything to do with transferring RG/G3 the flights, but G3 was trying to operate out of CGH and they had clearly more flights than JJ departuring and arriving at CGH this morning.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 7, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 11180 times:

CGH is closed again since 11:05 am.

User currently offlinePapaNovember From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 8, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11093 times:

How far is GIG from CGH or GRU?

User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 9, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11008 times:

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 8):
How far is GIG from CGH or GRU?

ca. 360 km


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 10, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 11008 times:

Isn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.


User currently offlinePapaNovember From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 473 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10970 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 3):
They could easily divert to GIG. There were no lines yesterday at TAM's check-in counters at GIG during most part of the day.



Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 10):
Isn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.

That's a really long way to divert....

C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 12, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10949 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 10):
sn't GIG - in Rio and CGH/GRU in Sao Paulo?

That's a couple hundred miles or more.

Yes, but the main problem are connections. Thousands of people get stranded for many hours at CGH and GRU or even between them, because they have to change airports, because of the closure. I have heard cases of people being sent to GRU just to be informed that they should go back to CGH and, in the end, they realize they should have stayed at GRU, because CGH closed again.
I don't know why SAO residents get the priority, when there are people that are stranded not 360 km from home, but more than 1000 km!!! If the planes started to land at GIG, they wouldn't have to wait on the taxiway for a spot to park and they wouldn't have to sleep on the floor of the airport waiting for a connection that leaves only 12 hours afterwards. Passengers to SAO could easily be transported by bus.


User currently offlineAloges From Germany, joined Jan 2006, 8615 posts, RR: 43
Reply 13, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10943 times:

Quoting Luisca (Reply 4):
all the airport needs is some improvements, like grooving and breakable concrete in overrun areas and the airport would be perfectly safe for most operations.

The trouble is there are no overrun areas. And you've got the runways sitting on top of steep nclines on all sides. Beyond those inclines, there's roads, homes, filling stations, businesses and most importantly a lot of people who would definitely mind moving elsewhere for even the slightest expansion of CGH.



Walk together, talk together all ye peoples of the earth. Then, and only then, shall ye have peace.
User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 14, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10892 times:

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 11):
C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?

Yes, I am. Until they sort everything out, they should do that. If GRU does not hold the capacity to replace CGH as a hub, the space at GRU should be left to the O&D traffic. I see no reason why putting the whole country on hold just because SAO passengers can't take a 6 hours ride to São Paulo until the airlines can rearrange their networks. We have whole families waiting in transit at GRU paying absurd prices just to feed themselves at the airport. Let's not forget it's July.


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 15, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 10884 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting PapaNovember (Reply 11):
That's a really long way to divert....

C010T3 - Are you be expecting the airlines to bus passengers to and from Sao Paulo?

PapaNovember
Sao Paulo nowadays is almost ATL+JFK together. All O&D for São Paulo, the rich and strong business center of South America and ALSO all connections north-south, plus many from CNF, SDU, VIX, are made in São Paulo. There are several cities in Brazil with service ONLY to São Paulo, which means no option.

The question is not simple but it's the only, if airlines run more flights like NVT-BSB, JOI-GIG, POA-SSA, CWB-CNF, RAO-GIG, BSB-IGU, and some others, at least 6 to 12 million people can avoid São Paulo airports every year, allowing them to handle in a better shape the O&D for just São Paulo market.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 16, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10849 times:

You're talking about having to scrap the hub operation at CGH and move the operation elsewhere.

The flight schedules won't work for connections if the airports are that far apart. New schedules will have to be created.

Then you've got all the local passenger traffic from Sao Paulo which has to be restructured.

No large airline worldwide could do somthing like that in a few days. Even then, no large airline worldwide can avoid massive system wide delays when a major hub is shut down for extended periods during a day, forcing diversions.

Just look at the mess at Heathrow this week for British Airways and many, many international connecitons.

Come with me out to Dallas Love or Dallas-Fort Worth some day when thunderstorms shut those airports for hours per day. My last flight scheduled on Southwest - we gave up and returned home - missing a family event in Houston - 350 miles away.

My last flight on AAL was delayed six hours leaving BDL and got into DFW 8 hours late - five hours flying around thunderstorms on what was supposed to be a three hour flight.

I'm not complaining, I've seen first hand the result of trying to push a landing in heavy rain and storms. Luckly the ferry crew on the CV-990 survived.

Remember - the long runway at CGH is closed - only the shorter runway is in use. That's going to force most jets to divert if the runways are wet.

If you've got to complain to someone about weather messing with the schedule and safety of flights - find a chapel.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 17, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10821 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 16):
You're talking about having to scrap the hub operation at CGH and move the operation elsewhere.

Yes, that has already been decided by the Federal Government. I'm sorry, i'm not sure, if that has been mentioned here in the forum. CGH will neither be allowed to receive connecting passengers, nor stopping flights. That means you can kiss CGH-XXX-XXX and XXX-CGH-XXX flights goodbye. Another measure taken by the government is the prohibition of new international service out of SAO until further notice.


User currently offlineRFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7345 posts, RR: 32
Reply 18, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10798 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Yes, that has already been decided by the Federal Government. I'm sorry, i'm not sure, if that has been mentioned here in the forum. CGH will neither be allowed to receive connecting passengers, nor stopping flights.

You folks in Brazil are in for months of disruption then.

It will take months to revise the schedules, reschedule aircraft, crews and possibly modify aircraft fleets.

I realize people have committed a lot of money to travel, but that's the type situation where the best thing is to cancel the flights and fight for a refund.


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 19, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10764 times:

Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 18):
I realize people have committed a lot of money to travel, but that's the type situation where the best thing is to cancel the flights and fight for a refund.

People don't need to fight. At least I didn't have to. I had a SDU-CGH roundtrip with RG the day after the accident and when I called to reschedule, two options were given to me. Either reschedule for the following day or ask for a refund. I actually wanted to reschedule for two weeks afterwards, but I had to pay, so I asked for the refund, since it was free. Dumb procedure. If they give you the option for the following day, why not two weeks later?


User currently offlineC010T3 From Brazil, joined Jul 2006, 3651 posts, RR: 19
Reply 20, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 10702 times:

ANAC has just announced the prohibition of new bookings for all CGH flights until the situation is normalized.

User currently onlinePPVRA From Brazil, joined Nov 2004, 8873 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 10622 times:

Grooving of the main runway at CGH will begin tomorrow.

Good to see GOL taking pro-active steps.



"If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will" - Frederic Bastiat
User currently offlineJJMNGR From Brazil, joined May 2004, 1018 posts, RR: 15
Reply 22, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10487 times:

Quoting PPVRA (Reply 21):
Grooving of the main runway at CGH will begin tomorrow.

Around 200 people had to die for them to take this action? Somebody can say here that as the media is stating, airlines put a lot of pressure over the authorities to deliver the airport as soon as possible. Ok, so what? The airlines were doing its roll. Where is the authority that shows flexibility in acknowledge this pressure? If the issue involving is related to safety of the flight operations, than they should have delivered the runway with the grooving.

INFRAERO´s Incompetent president was saying that the main CGH runway would be delivered today...."if there would be no rain...."!!!!! This is and assumption of guilty for God sake!

A very few people are remembering that one day before the accident, a Pantanal ATR42 skid off the wet runway ( AT THE END OF THE RUNWAY!!!) Do an ATR need to use the hole runway at CGH? Do the ATR had a just one reverse operating?.

Why a lot of pilots lading during that period of rain reported runway wet and slippery? Because all of them had just one reverse operating?

Why the same PR-MBK landed at CGH the same day 3 x, with one of the reverse INOP and there was no accident if the problem was to have a reverse INOP?

Sorry guys, I just arrived from the funeral of another colleague and I am devastated for all this....how ignorant are some people, how arrogant are some journalists and our Congress Authorities.

I know who is going to be blamed. It will be a guy that is no longer with us to defend himself; the Captain. Ninety something % of all aircraft accidents is like this and this one will not be different.

Cheers,

Richard


User currently offlineLipeGIG From Brazil, joined May 2005, 11365 posts, RR: 59
Reply 23, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10464 times:
AIRLINERS.NET CREW
FORUM MODERATOR

Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
INFRAERO´s Incompetent president was saying that the main CGH runway would be delivered today...."if there would be no rain...."!!!!! This is and assumption of guilty for God sake!



Quoting JJMNGR (Reply 22):
Sorry guys, I just arrived from the funeral of another colleague and I am devastated for all this....how ignorant are some people, how arrogant are some journalists and our Congress Authorities.

Richard, again i'm really sorry about your team and colleagues.

Agree 200% that Infraero and it's model of Aeroshopping + "nice" terminals and ZERO care on runways, taxiways and real infrastructure destroyed the good moment of Brazilian Aviation.

Our government (entire) is a shame:
Lack of authority, lack of direction, lack of integrity, lack of know how to govern a country.

Felipe



New York + Rio de Janeiro = One of the best combinations !
User currently offline2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 24, posted (6 years 8 months 3 weeks 6 days 16 hours ago) and read 10450 times:

Quoting C010T3 (Reply 17):
Another measure taken by the government is the prohibition of new international service out of SAO until further notice.

What international service in GRU has to do with an overcrowded CGH?
With that kind of thinking, then move all Sâo Paulo international flights back to VCP where they were forced to move when CGH became a full domestic airport.
I can think of some airlines which will gladly move to VCP if Brazil grants them open skies.



I don't work for COPA Airlines!
25 Post contains images PPVRA : Good to see you back and safe. And my sincerest condolences for your losses, I hope the good people at TAM recover as soon as possible and as much as
26 JJMNGR : Felipe, Thanks again for your always welcome nice words. We are all suffering a lot. As you know I suspended my vacation but till now I did not had th
27 JJMNGR : Tks buddy! Thanks.
28 Tavong : Agreed. Blessings and has i said on my provate message i hope the God gives you the strength to keep going and honouring your friend´s memory with y
29 FMAL : A very correct statement by you Lipe and by JJMNGR on his earlier post. Good to see you JJMNGR safe and sound, and, of course, I'm sorry for the loss
30 C010T3 : If more international service is added at GRU, there will be less space for domestic operations. Another problem is the fact that international servi
31 RFields5421 : The way I read the threads, someone correct me if I'm wrong, is that they do not want to add any more international traffic to GRU until they have th
32 AirSpare : No large aiviation company could not afford to not change this now. CGH will become a commuter station. (Blatant prediction.) That was incredible tha
33 RFields5421 : Please understand - I'm not questioning the NEED to make changes. Just that no airline, in any country, can respond to such a drastic reconfiguaion i
34 2travel2know : I've arrived and departed GRU at 0430h and at that time, the only delay is on the line waiting to go to passport control (arriving or departing) beca
35 LipeGIG : Very true. And it's also my point, lack of someone giving ORDERS. But imagine, ANAC (Our Aviation Agency) is managed by someone without expertise on
36 Post contains images YULWinterSkies : JJ is not Ryanair.
37 2travel2know : The 1st time I visited SSA, it was on a very ugly day. My 1st reaction to Salvador Bahía was "Now I know how LAD looks like". Of course lots of Braz
38 Irobertson : Completely agree with you and I feel horrible for all the losses you've had to endure. I'm glad you can be here to say these hard but true words. It
39 C010T3 : That's true! Ryanair does not operate in overcrowded unsafe central airports, not to mention making them its main hub. I'm sorry for having to tell y
40 2travel2know : I used as an example because a Samba School get things done, what they want to do for Carnival they do achieve... No matter what they do, they have t
41 C010T3 : Unfortunately they don't. This year's winner is under investigation for having bribed the judges.
42 Donzilasse : JJMNGR I am very happy to see you Richard back here at this forum and my condoleances to you and all the families of your previous co-workers. I have
43 AirSpare : I may be wrong, but I believe he meant the commitment to excel, not exceed. Yes, the schools do try to excel, at least we have nice shopping? You kno
44 C010T3 : I had already understood, but thank youanyway for trying to help. In both of our languages, Castilian and Portuguese, the verb "superar" concentrates
45 GECMD11 : can VCP be utlized ?
46 JJMNGR : Anthough I am the General Cargo Manager, it somehow helps me keep my job! Tks.
47 2travel2know : As SAO other airport? Yes, with a superb rail link and improved motorways, I think it could. But I'm afraid to say the Brazilian government would rat
48 LipeGIG : The terminal isn't that big. The big problem is that, it's not a closer airport to downtown São Paulo so you should need to build the entire hub ban
49 LipeGIG : Seems that the Government is preparing a package of improvements: CWB, GIG, GRU and POA will receive ILS Cat III and some others (expect BSB, MAO, REC
50 Donzilasse : Lipe, A MIA to CNF would be great for me however in the big picture I believe that a country of the size of Brasil probably will need 3 or 4 major hub
51 C010T3 : I couldn't agree more! I just mentioned in Contato Radar how I expect JJ to do that. Since new international flights to GRU are prohibited, I believe
52 Md94 : Exactly my question and/or point. VCP is only a little over an hour away from Sao Paulo, so why don't they use it more? Good highways all of the way
53 EDICHC : Perhaps these are the only improvements required, but until they are in place i would not call it a knee jerk reaction. I would call it prudence base
54 S.P.A.S. : Just a small correction JJMNGR, The Pantantal ATR did not skid off the runway at the end. It was landing on 17R and lost the centreline more or less c
55 PPSMA : Richard (JJMGR), I would also like to welcome you back to the forum and say that I share your sadness for the loss of friends and co-workers and your
56 LipeGIG : As i comment, VCP can handle no more than 2 million people/year and the problem is that, you need to develop a lot more in terms of flights. TAM and
57 JJMNGR : Pls allow me to correct something. I am not frustrated. Anger I agree. There is no difference where Pantanal ATR lost the centerline. Fact is that it
58 MarioSPlane : You´re absolutely right. Only people that don´t live here in Sao Paulo can think that VCP is an option for us. And you´ve been warning about the n
59 2travel2know : Re VCP, On Googlemapls, what looks like a railroad track very close to VPC, is actually a railroad track? If VCP had a fast reliable rail link to Pau
60 MarioSPlane : Yes, it certainly could. The only problem is that brazilian authorities don´t know the meaning of 'fast' and 'reliable'. A rail link to Paulista or
61 C010T3 : Since the good the discussion that was being held in the new thread I had opened was deleted, I have to repost it. The chaos at GRU yesterday morning
62 C010T3 : RAO is also closed since yesterday evening, because the runway was struck by lightning.
63 LipeGIG : It couldn't and i will tell you why ! About 8 years ago people try to resume the train service between Rio and São Paulo. At that time MRS Logistica
64 FMAL : Actually, its a she. Her credentials to be Minister of Tourism is nothing more than being a high profile PT (party in power now) politician without a
65 2travel2know : I think you should generalize and also have written Latinamerica. as the examples of government competence at those levels are very few.
66 FMAL : You have a point, look at Chavez, Morales, etc....
67 Donzilasse : FMAL You said: That's why I'm so angry. Brazil is such a great and rich country, but we let it go to waste in the hands of these corrupt bureaucrats t
68 SAOAP : Hi folks, I've been looking at the some recent threads and here are some of my thoughts... São Paulo vs Rio: sorry, this is starting to get ridiculou
69 LipeGIG : Lets pray for a better future ! At least we still can pray and hope that Brazilians choose better the President in the future. Felipe
70 2travel2know : Just to experience the traffic jams from Sampa to VCP, at what time I should be on that road to see it by myself. I've seen bad traffic in Sampa and
71 SAOAP : 3 airports for São Paulo are not an option. Considering that the traffic could be spread among CGH and GRU (given that GRU will also be expanded as
72 FLYGUY767 : That is an over dramatization... At the most the drive from downtown Sao Paulo to Campinas is 2hrs 30 minutes in traffic. Hardly the 12 hours that yo
73 Md94 : I also do not see the difference between spending 2 hours in traffic inside Sao Paulo going to GRU/CGH or spending 2 hours in traffic to reach VCP.
74 C010T3 : You are completely right! I couldn't agree more. Welcome to my RR list!
75 Tonytifao : IMO, TAM does have a big fault on all of this. Invest money in facilities, in IT, etc. They can't even setup a seat map for passengers with confirmed
76 2travel2know : Neither Brazil revolves around Rio de Janeiro, it's the people outside Brazil that think Brazil revolves around Rio.
77 FLYGUY767 : I dont think I said Brasil revolves around Rio de Janeiro or Cariocas.... I made the following two statements: -JD
78 C010T3 : Nobody has ever said that on this forum. 2travel2know must be underestimating your knowledge about Brazil.
79 2travel2know : I think it's time to focus on the subject of this discussion and not go over to a Sampa VS Rio debate or what is the image most foreigners have of Bra
80 Zvocio79 : the Govs of Brazil and Argentina must definately do something to improve safety on the airspace and airports.
81 FLYGUY767 : So now we are talking about Argentina? I dont think the question is about aviation safety in Brasil.. In fact the question is reliant upon the overcr
82 LipeGIG : Tony i made i suggestion to Infraero and ANAC: WHY we need to double-check on X-Ray passengers using connections thru CGH, GRU and GIG ? They replied
83 PPVRA : 2 hours and 30 min, plus 2-3 hours ahead of time = 4.5-5 hours. That's at least half of your working day! Sorry, but that's ridiculous. I want more d
84 FLYGUY767 : Again, no one was complaining about this when Lufthansa, and Swissair were flying from Campinas.. What is the difference now.. Not everyone in Sao Pa
85 2travel2know : This is something ANAC shoud take notice too. ANAC should be more flexible in granting international routes to Brazilian airports that aren't GRU or
86 FLYGUY767 : This is a point that PPVRA has mentioned as well. There is a staunch protectionism of the Brasilian market on all fronts. The US airlines are limited
87 PPVRA : 4.5-5.5 hours wasted of a whole day. And if you must ask what the difference is, you don't know SP. All very small but GOL and TAM, and both are base
88 FLYGUY767 : I know Sao Paulo fairly well as I have relatives that live in Jardim Paulista, Bela Vista, and Higienópolis It is 99km from Jardim Paulista to Campi
89 C010T3 : That is not true. There is a frequency limitation which the US airlines have reached, but there is nothing stopping them from flying elsewhere. US ai
90 2travel2know : ANAC didn't limited U.S. airlines to only fly to GRU and GIG, U.S. airlines choose to allocate all their bilateral frequencies to those 2 Brazilian a
91 FLYGUY767 : What I meant is that with the current limited frequencies the US airlines have they cannot serve the other markets. It was my fault for poorly wordin
92 FMAL : Thank you for your kind words Lasse. I just read today that a group o Media people are starting a campaign of "1 minute of silence for Brazil". Not o
93 C010T3 : I agree, but you must see that TAM is the only Brazilian airline flying to the US with 35 frequencies if I'm not mistaken. Our government is put in a
94 SAOAP : You can't possibily be serious! How can you compare the mid 1980s with 2007?! A lot has happened since then. Trust me, I work in the city and when I
95 Md94 : I grew up in Western Kansas and it was a 4 hour drive to ICT, 4 hour drive to DEN and a 7 hour drive to MCI. I believe many people think airports are
96 2travel2know : Any Express bus between VCP and anywhere posh in Sao Paulo itself (Paulista, Broklin, Jardins) would take from 1:15h to 2:50h depending on the day an
97 2travel2know : You mean switching from GRU to VCP? Given an awesome incentive package by both INFRAERO and ANAC, I'm sure there'll be airlines which at least may st
98 PPVRA : If we are looking at the same thing (track tangent to the west of the airport property), I tried tracking it on Goolgle Earth and it led me towards t
99 AirSpare : FMAL, thank you for the correction. My wife told me by messenger, not many details about it. Short term measures are surely required, but if that is t
100 Dellatorre : I doubt it!! I personally don't think that foreign airlines will want to move their facilities there. There is no infrastructure & equipments availab
101 FMAL : The press actually came on pretty strong when she said it. To such extent that she apologized only a few minutes afterwards. But the damage was done.
102 MarioSPlane : Exactly. Airport locations are not about convenience. It´s a matter of economics and I´m sure you know that. A 2 hour drive could be nothing for so
103 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : You are right as they handle much more air traffic than Sao Paulo! -JD
104 MarioSPlane : I don´t question your knowledge of Sao Paulo. And you are right about the distances. But going to VCP could mean a 45min or a 3 hour drive. As you´
105 SBBRTech : Hi there folks, this is my 1st post in airliners.net ever...and although we´re discussing such a unfortunate subject, i´m quite happy to see how man
106 Post contains links PPVRA : First of all, welcome to A.net SBBRTech! Always nice to see more Brazilians join in. Now to the point of this post: The municipality of Araçariguama,
107 Incitatus : The choice of examples was not the best. People travel a lot more than 60 miles to get to an airport, but that is not an endorsement to locating airp
108 2travel2know : If the hope of many Brazilians is to have their local airports full of foreign carriers, then is mainly ANAC with some INFRAERO help the ones who cou
109 FLYGUY767 : It depends on a few factors: Time of Day Type of Weather Sports Events That can make the trip from 1.5 hours to 2.45 hours and so forth. By far the t
110 Post contains images PPVRA : The best incentive we can give for that to become true is not to invest in brand new airports, but to actually allow airlines to fly there. Sounds li
111 SBBRTech : Just seen in the news that federal deputies are attempting to prove that ANAC´s board of directors are underskilled and too incompetent to do the job
112 LipeGIG : 2Travel, the fact is that ANAC never become an agency as should be. They could begin bid for routes like Northeast, South, North, BSB, CNF and even s
113 AF086 : The president asked "kindly" for ANAC's board to resign, seems that all but one director is willing to leave. But I guess that this person will leave
114 FMAL : And guess who's refusing? Denise Abreu herself, perhaps the greatest moron of them all. She's the one who made statements right after the Gol acciden
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