Gemini573 From United States of America, joined Jan 2007, 146 posts, RR: 0 Reply 2, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 21 hours ago) and read 13210 times:
How soon will QR get a hold of the 787? Aren't the slots booked until 2015?
It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar - I'm guessing that it'll be for 30 + 30 options (which QR always like to quote as part of the order) and this will constitute the "huge" order.
Keesje From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 5, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 20 hours ago) and read 12907 times:
It wouldn't surprize me. The 787 and A350 have limited overlap, getting the best of both worlds can be a good idea. The incremental saving from e.g. having 150 aircraft of the same type iso 80+70 from two types aren't that significant. You will have scale for both. Likely 787-8's.
Norcal773 From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1280 posts, RR: 12 Reply 6, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12797 times:
Say what? Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except LH whick ordered 7 when they ordered the 748.
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4): It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar
It's no longer a commonly held belief after their logo appeared on the 787 when it was unveiled.
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3): Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....
HughesAirwest From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 51 posts, RR: 0 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 19 hours ago) and read 12723 times:
Let's all be careful. Remember that QR and Boeing had a falling out of sorts when Boeing Announced their order for the 77l at the Paris Airshow 2006 only to have QR resend the statement only to firm up the order later in the year leaving Boeing with mud on their face. This came doubt at a cost to Boeing's reputation of not disclosing until the customer is ready. So when and if QR orders more 787's then we can tell Boeing and QR........BZ
"One man practicing Teamwork is far better than fifty preaching it."
DAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 4 Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 12020 times:
Perhaps an early exercise of the options will now take the total firm order to 60, which is significant.
Mptpa From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 515 posts, RR: 0 Reply 10, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 16 hours ago) and read 11981 times:
WOW, here is another EK-like airline brewing!! That would be impressive to have 80 A350 and 60 B787 in a tiny emirate!! Add this to what EK, and other mid-east carriers, and there would be an awefully large amount of lift just in that small area! Impressive indeed.
Perhaps they are waiting till Dubai Airshow to steal some thunder from Emirates???? May be Emirates will have an announcement of their own for some A350/B787 too. So what would be the chances of getting 1000 for B787 by Dec 31, 2007. I would think this number would be reached by EIS. Now that would be really unprecedented and impressive for any type of aircraft.
Burkhard From Germany, joined Nov 2006, 4248 posts, RR: 2 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11800 times:
The Emir of Qatar must have all the swimming pools of his palast full of gold now, and must fear big flooding. He just payed 400 Mio € to Libya for the release of the Bulgarian doctor and nurse, just to get France to support for him to pay a few Bio € for a share of Airbus, and orders one long range aircraft per potential passenger, and may be an (A or B) per passenger and a (B or A) for the camel ...
I severely doubt that the Gulf companies can get full control over the traffic between Europe an Asia and the US and central Asia - but they would need that market to fill these hundreds of aircrafts. Unless these aircrafts are the only idea they have to dump their excessive amount of money they get due to the hight oil price, which is due to politics, which may not be discussed here.
Aminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11601 times:
Quoting Scouseflyer (Reply 4): It's been a commonly held beleif here on Anet that an order for 30 that was booked for an unidentified customer in April was for Qatar - I'm guessing that it'll be for 30 + 30 options (which QR always like to quote as part of the order) and this will constitute the "huge" order.
I tend to agree. How many of the announced 80 A350 do you think could be options ?? Regarding your comment that QR likes to mention options as part of the order (I heard such also otherwhere): 40 + 40 would be logical, at least from QR point of view, combined with the B787 it would be 70 firm orders + 70 0ptions
Quoting Danny (Reply 8): Exactly. 30+30 options has been known for quite a while. Maybe he plans to exercise the options?
I do not think so, but anything can happen if money is no problem !. Please see my Reply to Scouseflyer above
Scouseflyer From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2006, 3254 posts, RR: 10 Reply 14, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 15 hours ago) and read 11488 times:
Quoting Aminobwana (Reply 13): Regarding your comment that QR likes to mention options as part of the order (I heard such also otherwhere): 40 + 40 would be logical
Airbus only books firm orders to it's spread-sheet and that's got 80 so the A350 order is 80 firm and (currently) no options. What set me down that path was the way that their old order for the A380 (2 firm and 2 options) was always described as an order for 4 by QR (not AB).
SkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 16, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 11155 times:
I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style. I guess they assume their respective airports are going to become huge connecting hubs with hoards of people. Isn't the idea behind a/c like the 787 and 350 to be ultra-long range? Why would someone who is travelling from say, LHR-PER want to stop and potentially change planes when nonstop service capable aircraft are on the horizon? For that matter, most any city combination from Europe to Asia can be achieved nonstop. Short of undercutting airfares to the point of minimizing profitability, I don't get it. I'll say this again too - any greater military conflict in the region (which despite what some folks will tell us) is quite likely. That would translate into alot of pax desiring to overfly ANY city in the ME, even if they are not directly involved. Oh well, all those jets sure will look nice and pretty baking in the sun while grounded due to lack of passengers.
Cloudy From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 17, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10898 times:
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16): STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years.
They are counting on these factors to drive costs down....
1. Cheap labor from low wage Middle-East countries such as Egypt.
2. Minimal government interference.
3. Low airport costs at their hubs, due to an oil financed infrastructure. Note that this is available to everyone, but it is a significant benefit only for airlines that hub there.
They think these factors will drive demand up.....
1. A good strategic position between Europe and India, and between Europe and the Pacific rim.
2. A rich home market, full of business travelers. Also, there is a lot of vacation traffic both in and out. The aforementioned cheap labor has to get in and out also.
3. The Dubai hub and others like it will be more attractive as connection points than Eurpean and Asian hubs because there is enough capacity to handle the expected traffic. Expansion is easier due to fewer NIMBY issues, etc.
4. Traffic stimulation due to lower fares made possible by lower costs.
5. Greater cargo potential due to the near-exclusive use of widebodied aircraft, and a good position between heavy air cargo markets.
That, in a nutshell, is what Emirates etc. is counting on. We will see if it will work or not.
Candid76 From United Kingdom, joined Apr 2005, 710 posts, RR: 5 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10898 times:
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16): I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style. I guess they assume their respective airports are going to become huge connecting hubs with hoards of people. Isn't the idea behind a/c like the 787 and 350 to be ultra-long range? Why would someone who is travelling from say, LHR-PER want to stop and potentially change planes when nonstop service capable aircraft are on the horizon? For that matter, most any city combination from Europe to Asia can be achieved nonstop. Short of undercutting airfares to the point of minimizing profitability, I don't get it. I'll say this again too - any greater military conflict in the region (which despite what some folks will tell us) is quite likely. That would translate into alot of pax desiring to overfly ANY city in the ME, even if they are not directly involved. Oh well, all those jets sure will look nice and pretty baking in the sun while grounded due to lack of passengers.
Surely you're not suggesting that airlines get carried away at the peak of the economic cycle, order far too many aircraft because it feels good at the time then when it hits the fan they have to defer or cancel them, incurring huge losses? I can't see why such an intelligent industry as this would make this mistake?
Yes, some people just never learn. They will cross their fingers that the current boom goes on for ever, and no world events outside the control of the industry happen when you least expect it. No point in cautious growth, eh?
Poitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 19, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 14 hours ago) and read 10668 times:
Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 16): I STILL say that there is going to be a huge glut of capacity amongst Middle East airlines in the next 10 years. Carriers such as EK, QR, and EY are buying wide bodies like they were going out of style.
You are not the only one saying that. However, it will be interesting. There is a terrible bubble in the number of aircraft being sold world wide and sooner or later it will bust. Then there will be a glut of older airframes on the market nobody but the scrappers would want. This will encourage a number of new startup LLCs, making it even harder for the legacy airlines.
Others have also pointed out that the grand plan to make DBX a new hub in the Middle East akin to LHR is based on current aircraft ranges of 6000 NM, while the next generation will be more like 8000 NM, making DBX as valuable as SNN and ANC for refueling passenger flights.
Hey, better they spend all that Oil money on airplanes for at least a while.
KC135TopBoom From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 11708 posts, RR: 52 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 12 hours ago) and read 8984 times:
It's a good thing they have all that desert space available. They may need to park some of their A-350XWBs, A-380-800s, B-777-300ERs, and B-787-800/900s in about 10 years.
HanginOut From Austria, joined May 2005, 545 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 8349 times:
Let's not forget that Dubai (and EK to an extent) are also trying hard to turn themselves into tourist destinations, especially for the top end of the market. They're hoping that as people fly to other parts of the world that they will want to stop in Dubai for a mini-holiday or just to go to the Duty Free (which I hear is incredible). They're following the lead of Singapore and want to become more of a tourist magnet, where people don't mind stopping en route to somewhere else.
Also, as it is likely that non-stops will command a premium over one stop flights, there will always be a market for those willing to save themselves a few bucks and go for the one stop flight. There is also the fact that not everyone will want to sit in a plane for some of those longer flights and would welcome a chance to stretch their legs in between flights.
TeamAmerica From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 1761 posts, RR: 23 Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7980 times:
Quoting Keesje (Reply 5): It wouldn't surprize me. The 787 and A350 have limited overlap, getting the best of both worlds can be a good idea. The incremental saving from e.g. having 150 aircraft of the same type iso 80+70 from two types aren't that significant. You will have scale for both. Likely 787-8's.
YOU Keesje? Suggesting that the B788 isn't too small after all?
BoomBoom From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 10 hours ago) and read 7797 times:
Quoting Slz396 (Reply 3): Somebody needs to tell Al Bakr his order was already unveiled earlier this month by Boeing....
Quoting Danny (Reply 8): Exactly. 30 30 options has been known for quite a while.
Well the QR order for the A350s was known for more than a year, but that didn't stop a lot celebration when it was finally firmed. Sour grapes anyone?
25 PEET7G: I have heard that rumor, but is there any real possibility of it happening? I sure wish they would give green light for that extra 20 777s ,but is th
26 Aminobwana: (I am assuming it will be 80+60 = 140) Due my bad English I do not understand the phrase "You will have SCALE for both". Does this mean ROOM? But: ca
27 Lexer: I think it's a fascinating pi##ing match, and true to Gulf-style kitsch. And I agree with posters that it'll go bust. The Gulf states haven't really e
28 7cubed: Those were Akbar's own words not a.net hearsay. "CEO Akbar Al Baker said in Washington Monday, "very soon, we will be announcing a huge order for Dre
30 DistantHorizon: I can not resist to tell you the inverse also applies: Nobody is ordering the 748, except LH which ordered 20 when they ordered the A340... DH
31 Aminobwana: A slightly corrected version: Nobody is ordering A340's anymore, except....; Nobody is ordering the 748i now,except ..., but possibly wllin the futur
32 DistantHorizon: Not quite: Nobody is ordering both. BUT the A340 is ending his life, with about two decades on it's shoulders; the 748 should be beginning one... So
33 Azhobo: I dont think you are comparing apples to apples. Are you trying to compare a whole family of A340s to the latest model of the 747? Cause the 747 fami
34 Aminobwana: I was not intending to compare them, only stating facts !! aminobwana
35 JRDC930: No Offense intended, but remember that in the last four months there were "supposed" to be several huge orders announced, i.e. DL, AA, and QR thus far
36 DistantHorizon: I really think you are dead wrong. But that would be another thread... Regards DH
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Are they going to order any more 340's?
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YOU Keesje? Suggesting that the B788 isn't too small after all?
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