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"Stuck In A Hole" On JFK Tarmac...  
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11658 times:

Forgot to mention this from Tuesday's DL transcon.

We were pushed back from gate 2 (DL Song 757) and all seemed fine. Then I noticed them start up both engines, and we got a really weird vibration as the engines powered up to move us forward. Felt like they had the brakes on and were testing the engines.

Then we sat there. After a few minutes the captain came on to tell us we got pushed into a hole and the 757 couldn't power itself out of the hole without blowing parked baggage carts through the fences. He said a tug was going to come and yank us out.

So the tug drives over, but doesn't hook up. Instead 4-5 ground crew stood nearby and "rooted on" the pilot as he increased thrust, keeping an eye on the ground equipment to make sure it didn't get knocked over.

Sure enough, we were able to get out of the little nyaah in the pavement we were lodged into and we were on our way.

Now, I've been on a bus stuck in the mud and had this experience, and same for a car in the snow. But I've never been on a plane that had this kind of problem, certainly not at one of the busiest airports in the world.

Maybe it just shows how close to complete decay JFK really is. Walking around the terminals and driving around the ramps, every building seems rusty, crumbly and outdated. It's pretty depressing that so many people who visit the USA see this craphole as their first introduction when we have so many nicer places to enter (IAH, DFW, SFO, ORD, etc.).

How does the pavement get this bad at an airport in the "first world"?


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
36 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25758 posts, RR: 50
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11615 times:

I've had more then 1 pilot tell me they "sunk into the ground" at JFK. Normally on hot days, heavy planes on the way to departure can leave slight grooving especially after sitting in line for extended time.

JFK taxiways summer or winter are terrible. You've never noticed the bumpy rough ride before? If I remember correctly one major airline actually cautions its crews about taxiing at JFK, and to be extra vigilant about FOD (foreign object damage) from loose gravel etc.

Fun place  Yeah sure



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently onlinePanHAM From Germany, joined May 2005, 9535 posts, RR: 31
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11615 times:

I try to avoid JFK whenever I can, although it is always sweet memories returning to a place where I spend a couple of years working, and it was good experience. Still, I prefer EWR as port of entry for the big apple.

If that would happen to me I would just laugh because such things happen in NY and at JFK. When I read your text, 148th St in jamaica, which connects New York Blvd and Rockaway Blvd and is famous for the "Owl" and Han's Deli came into my mind. When it rained, that place was constantly flooded in one section. I think they fixed it sometimes in the eighties or so, but that took ages.

Still, when I get back to JFK these days, the changes have been tremendous over the years. Can only get better.



E's passed on! That parrot is no more! He has ceased to be! E's expired and gone to meet 'is maker!
User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 20 hours ago) and read 11599 times:

As sorry as I feel for anyone transiting JFK, I feel even worse for the poor bastard who comes into JFK and then transfers to the subway.

Now, I haven't seen all that many urban mass transit systems, but every single one I've seen, either foreign or domestic, is leaps and bounds ahead of the New York subway in so many respects. I guess that's what you get when a declining industrial base gets to control the city transit authority purse strings. Go figure.

But hey, at least the Airtrain is nice. And it doesn't have the ridiculously small cabins a la EWR.



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 11547 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
JFK taxiways summer or winter are terrible. You've never noticed the bumpy rough ride before?

Haven't landed or taken off from JFK in years. When I grew up in New Jersey, we avoided JFK as much as possible. When I lived in Manhattan, it was LGA most of the time. I think I flew out of JFK once. Since then, I've gone through EWR tens of times, and LGA a few, but this was the first time at JFK since 1995. It was a TW flight.

Will be the last trip to JFK for a while, if I can help it.

All my international flying since 1987 has been out of EWR, SFO, LAX, DFW, IAH, ATL, ORD, CVG and MIA, since the collapse of PA...

Quoting N844AA (Reply 3):
Now, I haven't seen all that many urban mass transit systems, but every single one I've seen, either foreign or domestic, is leaps and bounds ahead of the New York subway in so many respects. I guess that's what you get when a declining industrial base gets to control the city transit authority purse strings. Go figure.

May not have shiny tile, but it's functional and covers the city like a blanket as opposed to many other cities around the world where it only goes a few places. Tokyo and London are others that are well covered. But I agree that getting to the subway and then riding that route is a nightmare. That's why airtrain was built, to connect to the LIRR and avoid the subway.

Only time I ever took the subway to JFK in 1995, people kept reaching into the car from the platform trying to steal my garment bag. It would have been comical had it not been scary. This was 7am on a Saturday morning. I can't imagine what it might be like on a typical evening.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 11379 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
May not have shiny tile, but it's functional and covers the city like a blanket as opposed to many other cities around the world where it only goes a few places.

 checkmark  The NYC subway isn't the cleanest in the US, but it's the most useful by far. As far as going to JFK goes, forget about the A - take the Airtrain to Jamaica and get on the E. It's faster to Midtown and doesn't go through the bad neighborhoods that the A does.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineNYC2theworld From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 666 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 11197 times:

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
The NYC subway isn't the cleanest in the US, but it's the most useful by far. As far as going to JFK goes, forget about the A - take the Airtrain to Jamaica and get on the E. It's faster to Midtown and doesn't go through the bad neighborhoods that the A does.

Agreed.. and while the NYC subway is off topic here, just have to add one thing to it. How many cities provide 24 hour, 7 day service to all subway stations? I think there are only 3 in the world, two of which are in the NYC area (NYC Subway and PATH). Chicago is the other.



Always wonderers if this "last and final boarding call" is in fact THE last and final boarding call.
User currently offlineEMBQA From United States of America, joined exactly 11 years ago today! , 9364 posts, RR: 11
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 11050 times:

I don't think it was a hole like a pot hole. My guess is it was a low spot in the pavement. Planes.......when fully loaded and fueled really don't like uneven surfaces especially when trying to turn off the gate. I've taxied planes fully fueled, but with no passengers and they are very sluggish


"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
User currently offlineLN-MOW From United States of America, joined Jan 2000, 1908 posts, RR: 13
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 13 hours ago) and read 10947 times:

HAHA .. the same happened to me at LGA in 2001. I was onboard a TZ 738 that had to be pulled out of a sinkhole on the taxiway. We were taxiing slowly and came to a sudden and complete stop.


- I am LN-MOW, and I approve this message.
User currently offlineRichierich From United States of America, joined Nov 2000, 4278 posts, RR: 6
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10785 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
Maybe it just shows how close to complete decay JFK really is.

I don't think the Port runs the airport very well (I'm assuming it is their responsibility to fix the ramp or taxiway area). Because the airport is near max capacity doesn't help either.

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
Walking around the terminals and driving around the ramps, every building seems rusty, crumbly and outdated.

Well, not every building! The worst terminals are T2/3, T6, and T8 (the latter is being demolished soon). The other terminals, namely T1, T4, T7, T9, and soon T5, are all new and in very good condition. Other buildings, I agree, look like hell, especially in the cargo areas. JetBlue's deep blue hangar looks spiffy, but otherwise most of the out buildings are old and decrepid.

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
It's pretty depressing that so many people who visit the USA see this craphole as their first introduction when we have so many nicer places to enter (IAH, DFW, SFO, ORD, etc.).

As much as I am inclined to agree with you, it is still better than it was two decades ago. Pan Am's terminal (now Delta's craphole) was probably even worse than it is today. TWA didn't exactly do a marvelous job keeping T5 fresh, although it is obviously a cool building from an archetectural and historical perspective. The old International Arrivals buildings (T4E and T4W) were absolutely disgusting. And let's not even mention Tower Air's hangar/terminal facility.

I will say foreign visitors to JFK who are not arriving on DL are generally in pretty good facilities. T7, although old, is well maintained and BA freshened it a few years back. Once AA uses T9 exclusively, they'll have a great building too!

None of this explains the pot hole. Again, I blame the Port but who knows. At least there are no potholes on the runways (that I know of).



None shall pass!!!!
User currently offlineRJpieces From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10785 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
Walking around the terminals and driving around the ramps, every building seems rusty, crumbly and outdated.

Oh? Are Terminals 1,4,7, and 9 rusty, crumbly, and outdated? I don't think so...


User currently offlineDartland From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 644 posts, RR: 2
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 10717 times:
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Well, NY is known for its potholes. Rumor has it there have been some VW Bugs that fell into potholes on the BQE (Brooklyn Queens Expressway) and were never seen again! The Cross-Bronx is also notorious for its road condition.

Personally, I don't find JFK that bad a port of entry at all! Sure, DL's JFK T2/T3 is pretty bad. But T1, T4, T7 are all pretty decent to really nice and the new T6 and T9 will be / are truly first rate. I doubt int'l travelers really note how bumpy the taxiways are when flying in (and I fly in and out of JFK all the time and have never noticed them to be different than anywhere else).

Quoting N844AA (Reply 3):
Now, I haven't seen all that many urban mass transit systems, but every single one I've seen, either foreign or domestic, is leaps and bounds ahead of the New York subway in so many respects. I guess that's what you get when a declining industrial base gets to control the city transit authority purse strings. Go figure.

And finally -- the NYC Subway system is one of, it not, the best urban transit system on the planet (with the London Underground as its only real competition). I lived in Manhattan for years and it is amazing in where it can take you and how fast! Sure, it has its weaknesses (e.g. dirty in some places, not great for the outer-boroughs), but I think your attack is not only completely off-topic, but severely misinformed.


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4753 posts, RR: 45
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10516 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
JFK taxiways summer or winter are terrible. You've never noticed the bumpy rough ride before? If

Exactly, landed in a DL 752 from DEN on Satruday on 4R and bounced our way back to the terminal. Felt like they put low-riders on the plane...JFK taxiways are a MESS.

Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
The NYC subway isn't the cleanest in the US, but it's the most useful by far. As far as going to JFK goes, forget about the A - take the Airtrain to Jamaica and get on the E. It's faster to Midtown and doesn't go through the bad neighborhoods that the A does.

-Mir

Forget about the E too, it's all about the LIRR from Jamaica to Penn, 24 minutes, can't beat that.



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21544 posts, RR: 59
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10430 times:

Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7):
My guess is it was a low spot in the pavement.

Me too. Captain called it a hole, but I think it's more of a...

Quoting Ikramerica (Thread starter):
little nyaah

Read it like Charlie Callas

Quoting RJpieces (Reply 10):
Oh? Are Terminals 1,4,7, and 9 rusty, crumbly, and outdated? I don't think so...

I should have said rusty, crumbling and/or outdated. While I couldn't see every single terminal building from the inside, even the new ones don't seem "state of the art" from the outside (in layout and design) when compared with new airports around the world. And there is decay around the outsides of these new buildings. The newer terminals at JFK are more like AA's new J class: catching up to a previous generation product that is already being replaced by competition.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineMir From United States of America, joined Jan 2004, 21681 posts, RR: 55
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 10334 times:

Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 6):
I think there are only 3 in the world, two of which are in the NYC area (NYC Subway and PATH). Chicago is the other.

AFAIK, only two lines out of Chicago's six run 24/7. Though to be fair, there are two stations (out of 470-something) in NYC that don't get nighttime service.

IIRC, Berlin's U-Bahn (a great system) has some lines that run around the clock.

-Mir



7 billion, one nation, imagination...it's a beautiful day
User currently offlineJamesjimlb From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10267 times:

man, what it that happened upon take off or landing, yuck. yeah, haven't been to jfk much so i can't say to much.


The sky is no longer the limit, but the mere minimum
User currently offlineJetBluefan1 From United States of America, joined Dec 2003, 2992 posts, RR: 14
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10267 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 13):
While I couldn't see every single terminal building from the inside, even the new ones don't seem "state of the art" from the outside (in layout and design) when compared with new airports around the world.

I'd strongly recommend checking out T1 and T4 the next time you're at JFK. Both were recently completely renovated and are super modern, state of the art buildings. Both have enormous glass walls, very high ceilings, and are very sleek looking. Seeing that both terminals serve as international getaways (both house the most international carriers), they do a very nice job welcoming foreigners to the U.S, in my opinion.

That being said, almost every other terminal at JFK is undergoing/has undergone major renovations. As far as the roadways are concerned, JFK seems to have well-manicured landscaping, and the long line of flags that welcome people as they enter the Van Wyck is pretty classy.

But then again, this is coming from the perspective of someone who lives in NY and is used to seeing renovations of older buildings day-in and day-out. There's not a house of my street that hasn't been torn down or completely redone in the last ten years.

JetBluefan1



Most people on a.net hate JetBlue. Get used to it.
User currently offlineMirrodie From United States of America, joined Apr 2000, 7444 posts, RR: 62
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 9 hours ago) and read 10214 times:
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Quoting EMBQA (Reply 7):
Planes.......when fully loaded and fueled really don't like uneven surfaces especially when trying to turn off the gate.

Happens to be true at most airports.

Quoting Richierich (Reply 9):
I don't think the Port runs the airport very well (I'm assuming it is their responsibility to fix the ramp or taxiway area). Because the airport is near max capacity doesn't help either.

Lots of construction at JFK right now and the Port does a great job considering.

But the OPs original thread is just off. The airport is not in decay, its under construction.

Things happen with construction.

C'est la vie.



Forum moderator 2001-2010; He's a pedantic, pontificating, pretentious bastard, a belligerent old fart, a worthless st
User currently offlineMalaysia From United States of America, joined Nov 1999, 3360 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 10015 times:

Quoting N844AA (Reply 3):
But hey, at least the Airtrain is nice. And it doesn't have the ridiculously small cabins a la EWR.

It only operated 1 direction when I was there this week, so I had to go from 8 to 7 by going to C station then transferring to another train then back to 7 the other way around, since the other direction was not operating.



There Are Those Who Believe That There May Yet Be Other Airlines Who Even Now Fight To Survive Beyond The Heavens
User currently offlineChrisNH From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 4133 posts, RR: 2
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 9908 times:

All that was missing was the fitness guy from TV who says, 'You can do itttttttttttttttttttt!'

User currently offlineSTT757 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 16885 posts, RR: 51
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9857 times:

The airport has been undergoing over $10 Billion in renovations since 1999, it's a work in progress. It's light years from where it was 10 years ago, give it another five and the place will really be looking more complete. The thing about major airports is that they will always be under some kind of construction, it's just how it works.

JFK suffers a bit being adjacent to Jamaica bay and the Atlantic Ocean, anyone who has spent time near the Jersey Shore or Long Island beach communities knows what the salt air does to cars (don't buy a car from someone who lives near the shore). The salt air causes alot of corroding of metals and eats away at concrete, you need to constantly paint, scrape and repaint steel to keep it from corroding. Concrete needs treatments to seal themselves from the salt air.

Over all I think the Port Authority does a tremendous job with the four (soon to be five) area airports they control, they do a million times better job than the City of New York or a private company could provide.



Eastern Air lines flt # 701, EWR-MCO Boeing 757
User currently offlineN710PS From United States of America, joined Oct 2006, 1166 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9639 times:

Quoting Richierich (Reply 9):
I don't think the Port runs the airport very well (I'm assuming it is their responsibility to fix the ramp or taxiway area). Because the airport is near max capacity doesn't help either.

 checkmark  But only partially. The port has it's issues, they all things consiodered do an okay job. Not the best bu they run the show better than SRQ and that says alot considering SRQ is a single concorse terminal.



There is plenty of room for Gods animals, right next to the mashed potatoes!
User currently offlineN231YE From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 9450 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Reply 1):
Normally on hot days, heavy planes on the way to departure can leave slight grooving especially after sitting in line for extended time.


I wonder who handles airport operations?

[Edited 2007-07-26 22:29:59]

User currently offlineNewYorkCityBoi From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7472 times:

Actually more than half of the terminals are new now: except terminal 2,3 (Delta), terminal 6 (jetblue), and terminal 7(for most one world). Terminal 7 had been renovated though. So i think the only bad feeling that the foreigners would feel is to come into terminal 2,3...
Terminal 1, 4, 8&9 (new aa terminal) are as modern as most international airports and efficient .... I know they are not like ones in Asia but they are among the top of terminals in the US.


User currently offlineN844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 7249 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 4):
May not have shiny tile, but it's functional and covers the city like a blanket as opposed to many other cities around the world where it only goes a few places. Tokyo and London are others that are well covered. But I agree that getting to the subway and then riding that route is a nightmare. That's why airtrain was built, to connect to the LIRR and avoid the subway.



Quoting Mir (Reply 5):
e NYC subway isn't the cleanest in the US, but it's the most useful by far. As far as going to JFK goes, forget about the A - take the Airtrain to Jamaica and get on the E. It's faster to Midtown and doesn't go through the bad neighborhoods that the A does.

Yeah. I don't know why it took me so long to figure out the connection at Jamaica. Twenty minutes from Penn Station, as opposed to two hours on the A train. Durr.

It's too bad EWR can't get the sheer volume of trains that JFK gets. I've had to take cars from EWR a few times when I would have rather just taken the train, just because I happened to get in at an awkward time. The PA really did a nice job connecting Jamaica to JFK.

Quoting NYC2theworld (Reply 6):
Agreed.. and while the NYC subway is off topic here, just have to add one thing to it. How many cities provide 24 hour, 7 day service to all subway stations? I think there are only 3 in the world, two of which are in the NYC area (NYC Subway and PATH). Chicago is the other.

I would gladly trade a couple hours of service per day if it would diminish the absurd weekend service changes.

Don't get me wrong, I don't understand how a lot of dense cities function with subway systems that shut off every day for four or more hours. But there are plenty of lines and stations where late-night service is a cruel joke. I think it's important to have a subway system that operates as many hours a day as possible. But there's no such thing as a free lunch; for those extra hours every night, we pay for it on the weekends, as well as with infrastructure-related delays and closures.

Quoting Dartland (Reply 11):
I lived in Manhattan for years and it is amazing in where it can take you and how fast! Sure, it has its weaknesses (e.g. dirty in some places, not great for the outer-boroughs), but I think your attack is not only completely off-topic, but severely misinformed.

Off-topic, yes. Wrong, probably. Misinformed? Well, unless that wasn't the subway I've been taking to work every day ...  Smile

Just don't get me started on the buses.  Wink



New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
25 DL777LAX : Well, JFK, as run down as T2/3 are, its still a very busy airport, and for an airport that is supposedly rundown, it does an all right job. It may not
26 CO787EWR : Yea but this happens at every airport the sinkhole. Yea I flew JFK-AMS Terminal 2/3 wasnt my favorite experience since I am used to Terminal C in EWR.
27 Post contains images RJpieces : Terminal 7 is one of my favorite terminals at JFK...I would put it on par with T1 and T4. As for T6, the renovations have left it in great shape exce
28 Tbird : So has the folks here who have been ripping on JFK been there lately? JFK is far from what it was 10 years ago. All the Taxiways at JFK are currently
29 Brucek : I have often wondered where New Yorkers in Manhattan fly out of. KLGA seems obvious for domestic flights within the perimeter rule, but for internati
30 STT757 : Terminal 7 is also my favorite, I was last in there just after the renovation in early 2001. It's small but has an interesting design, I loved the lo
31 STT757 : This was among several items approved at today's Port Authority board meeting:
32 Post contains images N844AA : I can only speak for myself here (and look where my opinions of the NY subway have gotten me in this thread ) but the difference between EWR and JFK
33 Mir : T7 is comparable to T1, but neither are in the same league as T4. It's hard to compare the terminals at JFK to the terminals at other US airports, be
34 Post contains images HowSwedeitis : Just like in the movie, "The Terminal." Lots of construction... one can even sleep in the construction-terminal.
35 WorldTraveler : I suspect DL will be announcing a major expansion and rebuild at JFK after this summer's travel season. Based on the strength of their earnings, JFK h
36 NewYorkCityBoi : I once read that they considered that but then they decided not to. How would they do it?? they dont have space!.. Unlike the new AA terminal where t
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