EMBQA From United States of America, joined Oct 2003, 9286 posts, RR: 13 Reply 1, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 7246 times:
I can tell you right now the boards findings....
* Crew Rest
* Took off on the wrong runway
* Failure to confirm runway heading before departure
* Impact with terain
A very sad accident to think everyone lived through the impact, but died in the fire
"It's not the size of the dog in the fight, but the size of the fight in the dog"
Flyinryan99 From United States of America, joined Feb 2001, 1919 posts, RR: 11 Reply 3, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 3 hours ago) and read 7218 times:
EXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 4, posted (5 years 10 months 3 days 2 hours ago) and read 7065 times:
Quoting Gh123 (Reply 2): One of the victim family's attorney is trying to point the blame at Bombardier, due to the fact that they believe that fuel got into the cabin.
of course!! They probably have deep pockets...never sue anyone at fault, sue the deepest pockets.....do crew memebers ever get sued??? NOPE.
SWA TPA From United States of America, joined Aug 2001, 1559 posts, RR: 43 Reply 7, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 6502 times:
Whatever happened to the F/O? Wasnt he the only one that survived the crash?
AlexPorter From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 8, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6459 times:
Quoting SWA TPA (Reply 9): Whatever happened to the F/O?
Yeah, but at the very minimum he doesn't remember the accident and lost one or both of his legs. He might also have brain damage - I can't remember for sure if he does or not.
NIKV69 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 9, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 6034 times:
Quoting Gh123 (Reply 2): One of the victim family's attorney is trying to point the blame at Bombardier, due to the fact that they believe that fuel got into the cabin.
Reaching way too far.
Quoting RobertS975 (Reply 6): Lots of talk about the lack of sterile cockpit routine at the moment, as well as confirmation bias
FAA has the regulation for a reason. All that chatter diverts your attention away from your duties. Like lining up on the right runway maybe?
WN230 From United States of America, joined Jul 2006, 341 posts, RR: 1 Reply 11, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5820 times:
Quoting Gh123 (Reply 4): They said in accidemnt summary that the so called CL-600 involved was actually N431FE
No, the accident report said that N431CA was the plane that crashed. And to prove myself, here is the sentence where that came from . . .
" On August 27, 2006, about 0606:35 eastern daylight time, Comair flight 5191, a Bombardier CL-600-2B19, N431CA, crashed during takeoff from Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky. "
WN230 ******quote courtesy of ntsb.gov******
Judas Priest North American tour in '08 . . . cannot wait!!!
Falstaff From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 5673 posts, RR: 29 Reply 12, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5634 times:
Also an issue with many railroad accidents in the USA. Rail crews work odd schedules like aircrews and few people actually make light of that.
Quoting 71Zulu (Reply 7): Unless they could not sleep at the hotel the night before, I don't see crew rest being an issue.
Time between shifts can be a big issue. Even if they slept the allotted hours who is to say if that was really enough. Sleep deprivation is a huge problem in many industries.
Quoting AlexPorter (Reply 9): Yeah, but at the very minimum he doesn't remember the accident and lost one or both of his legs. He might also have brain damage - I can't remember for sure if he does or not.
No matter what I am sure he isn't talking much about what happened. I am sure he is represented by an attorney and that lawyer's advice is took keep your mouth shut!
Quoting EXAAUADL (Reply 5): ...never sue anyone at fault, sue the deepest pockets
AvConsultant From United States of America, joined Feb 2006, 1360 posts, RR: 3 Reply 13, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 5634 times:
A week after the crash, OH stated the crew flew in on Friday night with +30 hrs layover. The Capt's wife drove down from N. Ky with the kids and spent the day with him.
Someone posted they jumpseated in, that's the first I heard.
Quoting NIKV69 (Reply 10): FAA has the regulation for a reason. All that chatter diverts your attention away from your duties. Like lining up on the right runway maybe?
Ironically, sterile cockpit was established from an Eastern Airlines crash in the 70's when the crew was discussing a baseball game (I think the World Series) the night before.
Im a locomotive engineer for 19 yrs and we are regulated under very very strict guidlines from Canada of course and you would think twice of running a train these days with our mandates that must be met and control 21,0000 tons at the same time.We own a lot of rail in the states under the same guidlines so yes we are very very carefull what we do. just a thought
N844AA From United States of America, joined Jul 2003, 1352 posts, RR: 1 Reply 18, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 12 hours ago) and read 4918 times:
Quoting AvConsultant (Reply 14): Ironically, sterile cockpit was established from an Eastern Airlines crash in the 70's when the crew was discussing a baseball game (I think the World Series) the night before.
Is that right? I thought the sterile cockpit was mandated below 10,000' after the DL 727 crash at DFW, when the crew failed to set the flaps after spending most of the checklist talking about the flight attendants' dating habits.
As far as I can recall, the EA 401 crew spent most of the terminal descent obsessing over the status of the faulty lightbulb. But I could very, very easily be wrong, and if so, I'd appreciate a correction!
New airplanes, new employees, low fares, all touchy-feely ... all of them are losers. -Gordon Bethune
PanAm747 From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 4242 posts, RR: 10 Reply 20, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 4475 times:
Quote: Ironically, sterile cockpit was established from an Eastern Airlines crash in the 70's when the crew was discussing a baseball game (I think the World Series) the night before.
The crash you speak of was an Eastern DC-9 that crashed on approach to CLT on September 11, 1974:
On a side note, comedian Steven Colbert of Comedy Central's "The Colbert Report" lost both of his parents in that crash.
According to "Aviation Disasters" by David Gero,
Quote: As transcribed by the cockpit voice recorder, the two men covered a variety of topics, from politics to used motor cars, with both expressing strong views and mild aggravation regarding these subjects. In the process they may have relaxed their instrument scan and relied more heavily on visual cues to carry out the approach. And when the DC-9 entered the fog, there would not have been enough time for the to switch back to instrument procedures.
The World Series would have been later in the month.
As far as "blame" goes, it bothers me to think that blame must be affixed to someone or something, as if that will give the victims' families solace. Not that anyone at airlines.net would do so, but too many people in this world want things to be black and white - something bad happened, so it HAS to be someone's fault. And all too often, there are those that prey on the grieving by promising to get them "justice" before all the facts are in.
Let us also remember that aviation accidents in this era are incredibly complex - the 1982 Air Florida crash in Washington DC was the results of no less than 13 separate factors that occured, in sequence, resulting in that terrible crash. Simple "accidents" are almost non-existent anymore.
The anger is justified. The rush to judgement is not. The NTSB has taken its time in examining all the factors involved in this horrible accident and will render its findings at the appropriate time. I have faith the findings will be impartial and well-examined and that recommendations will be made to ensure this will not happen again.
Pan Am:The World's Most Experienced Airline - P(oor) S(ailor's) A(irline): San Diego's Hometown Airline-Catch Our Smile!
Contrails From United States of America, joined Oct 2000, 1818 posts, RR: 0 Reply 21, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3522 times:
We'll never know what was going through their minds those last few seconds, but I have often wondered what the pilots were thinking when they turned on to that darkened runway. I'm not a pilot, but I can't help but wonder why they didn't realize that something wasn't right. Why didn't they look at their compass? Why didn't they stop and think for a moment?
My primary thoughts, however, are about the pax, as they are in any crash. I wonder if any of them looked out the window and knew that the plane was on the wrong runway? Did any of them try to get word to the pilots? Did any of them know that they were doomed?
Georgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0 Reply 22, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3432 times:
Quoting Flyinryan99 (Reply 3): maybe a more streamlined way of getting NOTAMs to pilots.
I would have to agree, I know at FWA the NOTAM's come though the station fax machines and are usually discarded or stuck up on the notice board in ops. Our crews never even went into ops unless they were on a delay, but usually then just to eat and watch movies, not read the NOTAM's on the board.
Idk if any other airline does it differently, but to my knowlege the airport isnt obligated to do anymore than just send a fax... They really should have to send that to dispatch or something so that it can be included on the flight release. Just my 2 cents.
DashTrash From United States of America, joined Aug 2006, 1314 posts, RR: 4 Reply 23, posted (5 years 10 months 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 3361 times:
The sterile cockpit violation doesn't concern me. That's probably the most violated rule in the airlines.
Go to www.alpa.org, and look at their report. Very good information there.
Gh123 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR: Reply 24, posted (5 years 10 months 1 day 1 hour ago) and read 2934 times:
Quoting WN230 (Reply 11): No, the accident report said that N431CA was the plane that crashed. And to prove myself, here is the sentence where that came from . . .
" On August 27, 2006, about 0606:35 eastern daylight time, Comair flight 5191, a Bombardier CL-600-2B19, N431CA, crashed during takeoff from Blue Grass Airport, Lexington, Kentucky. "
Perhaps but at the beginning of the hearing, on their powerpoint presentation it said N431FE, not CA.
They got it wrong, shocking for a hearing as important as this.
25 SPREE34: Stupid schedules that a private business couldn't/wouldn't do. No other safety (nuke plants, train, bus, maritime,...) related business are permitted
26 Lowrider: Just to put in a little context, the non-sterile conversation happened during the pushback, not during taxi. Due to the short (only a few hundred yar
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