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AirTran Considers Caribbean Destinations  
User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 25785 posts, RR: 50
Posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Funny timing. They just decided to pull out from the Bahamas, and now talking about adding other Carrib locales.

Quote:
AirTran Considers Caribbean Destinations
07/27/2007


AirTran is weighing the addition of Caribbean destinations to its network, and could make inroads into the region early next year, said carrier President and COO Bob Fornaro.

According to Fornaro the points at the top of AirTran's list are Cancun and various cities in Puerto Rico. Currently, the carrier flies to the Bahamas from Atlanta. Fornaro noted AirTran won't need to change its business model to push into the Caribbean. Serving the region is similar to domestic flying, he said. "It's not that complex."

For the rest of this year, Fornaro doesn't anticipate adding another city, with the caveat that another could possibly be added in December. This year, AirTran launched service to Portland, Maine; Charleston, S.C.; Daytona; Phoenix; Newburgh, N.Y.; St. Louis; and San Diego. It now has 20% of its available seat miles on routes from the East Coast and Midwest to West Coast destinations.

Full Story (subscription)
http://www.aviationweek.com/publicat...siders+More+Caribbean+Destinations


From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3354 times:

Service to SJU would be a natural.

User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3317 times:

How ironic given they just quit Freeport after serving the place since 2000, apparently since they were reluctant to compete with DL and new landing fee prices  sarcasm 

Anyways, not many where they can fly (profitably) in the Caribbean where big, bad Delta isn't serving  wink  Best of wishes to them, I hope to see them in The Bahamas again, maybe this time a daily ATL-NAS flight with 717 equipment and 73G service on weekends  sly 



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineMke717spotter From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 2458 posts, RR: 5
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 7 hours ago) and read 3285 times:

In their SEC filing, FL has said they would fly MKE-CUN and MKE-SJU should they aquire YX.


Will you watch the Cleveland Browns and the Detroit Lions on Sunday? Only if coach Eric Mangini resigned after a loss.
User currently offlineHiflyer From United States of America, joined Nov 2004, 2175 posts, RR: 3
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 2 days 5 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Not sure I have seen them file a lot of overwater routes....do they carry the gear? They can do SJU without them following the islands but CUN pretty much requires going 'out there'.

User currently offlineDeltaDAWG From United States of America, joined May 2006, 776 posts, RR: 1
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2947 times:

Quoting Hiflyer (Reply 4):
Not sure I have seen them file a lot of overwater routes....do they carry the gear? They can do SJU without them following the islands but CUN pretty much requires going 'out there'.

They got the authority to fly CUN several years ago. In fact, they showed the destination on their route map shortly before the Hurricane went through CUN. Afterwards they pulled out before even starting the route. I suspect that CUN would be their first Caribbean desitination. Also, should not be a problem for the 737-700's to do a ATL-CUN as well as an ATL-SJU.

I have always been surprised it has taken them this long to get into the Caribbean. I always expected them to be bigger in that market than they are. I would think a BWI-SJU would do well for them also.

If successful in these markets perhaps they may just option for some 738's for routes out of MKE?

[Edited 2007-07-27 14:13:55]


GO Dawgs, Sic' em, woof woof woof
User currently offlineUSPIT10L From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 3295 posts, RR: 7
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2937 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 2):
How ironic given they just quit Freeport after serving the place since 2000, apparently since they were reluctant to compete with DL and new landing fee prices

FL was the first airline to fly to FPO from ATL, not DL. In fact, DL added EV CRJ service in 2002 IIRC, just to step on FL's toes. Bottom line--FL can't fly anywhere without subsidies--look at SRQ, TLH and ICT. Sorry to invoke OttoPylit's main argument, but it's true. They can't handle anything outside of ATL, period.



It's a Great Day for Hockey!
User currently offlineB757capt From United States of America, joined Feb 2004, 1393 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 19 hours ago) and read 2890 times:

Do any of you read? The reason the FPO service is being dropped is because the airport said it would waive fees for 3 years and continue to pay revenue guarantees to FL. In April, they stopped thats why FL is leaving FPO.

Not to mention that if we are going to fly somewhere completely unfunded then why not fly somewhere a hell of a lot nicer then FPO.



The views written by this user are in no manner the views of my employer and should not be thought as such.
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1400 posts, RR: 8
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2873 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
Bottom line--FL can't fly anywhere without subsidies--look at SRQ, TLH and ICT. Sorry to invoke OttoPylit's main argument, but it's true.

According to AirTran's website, they fly to 56 destinations. You've named three that purportedly operate with subsidies, which leaves 53 to go to substantiate your claim.

Good luck with that,
-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offline727LOVER From United States of America, joined Oct 2001, 6501 posts, RR: 20
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2851 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
look at SRQ

And as far as I know, SRQ isn't subsidized anymore.

SUBSIDIZED, is that a word?



Listen Betty, don't start up with your 'White Zone' s*** again.
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2814 times:

Can't imagine that there are too many places in the Caribbean FL could go into without bumping into Delta. Seems DL has the region pretty well covered, either by mainline or Connection.

Quoting B757capt (Reply 7):
Not to mention that if we are going to fly somewhere completely unfunded then why not fly somewhere a hell of a lot nicer then FPO.

IMO, an airline should not really have to rely on subsidies, particularly from foreign destinations. If you can't make it there on your own merit, then don't fly there at all. Don't just up and leave when someone stops buttering your bread.


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
FL was the first airline to fly to FPO from ATL, not DL.

Didn't Eastern fly this route in the 80s and 90s?


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33052 posts, RR: 71
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2802 times:

Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 8):

According to AirTran's website, they fly to 56 destinations. You've named three that purportedly operate with subsidies, which leaves 53 to go to substantiate your claim.

Freeport (which ends in September) and Gulfport/Biloxi are suported by local hotel/resort contracts.



a.
User currently offlineMikey711MN From United States of America, joined Nov 2003, 1400 posts, RR: 8
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 10):
IMO, an airline should not really have to rely on subsidies, particularly from foreign destinations. If you can't make it there on your own merit, then don't fly there at all. Don't just up and leave when someone stops buttering your bread.

I disagree, at least in part.

That is, the whole point of subsidies is to defray some of the startup costs that may otherwise prohibit a business from operating there, which may be ultimately successful in the longer term. The issue then becomes whether or not said business can be conducted on a self-sustainable basis upon cancellation of the subsidies. That's the whole premise after all; no airport authority nor municipality wins by "throwing money" at an airline only to have them bail when those subsidies are cut off.

To that end, it is entirely the business's decision to "cut and run" once those subsidies end. But the subsidies themselves provide a greater opportunity for them to do business and to potentially expand, and for that, FL--nor any airline--can be blamed.

-Mike



I plan on living forever. So far, so good...
User currently offlineN276AASTT From US Virgin Islands, joined Jan 2004, 620 posts, RR: 0
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

It would be great to get FL into St. Thomas. Not sure if it'll happen as they'd take on DL directly and they've had that route to themselves for a long time. Did Eastern fly ATL-STT? It'd be a bloodbath, so to speak.


Dejale Caer tu el Peso! YOMO
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2796 times:

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 12):
Quoting Mikey711MN (Reply 8):

According to AirTran's website, they fly to 56 destinations. You've named three that purportedly operate with subsidies, which leaves 53 to go to substantiate your claim.

Freeport (which ends in September) and Gulfport/Biloxi are suported by local hotel/resort contracts.

At one time, ICT was subsidizing Airtran service. I don't lnow if that's still the case.


User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33052 posts, RR: 71
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 18 hours ago) and read 2777 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 15):

At one time, ICT was subsidizing Airtran service. I don't lnow if that's still the case.

It definitley is. The ICT subsidies have been the most controversial.



a.
User currently offlineMD90fan From Bahamas, joined Jul 2005, 2931 posts, RR: 7
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 17 hours ago) and read 2750 times:

Quoting USPIT10L (Reply 6):
FL was the first airline to fly to FPO from ATL, not DL. In fact, DL added EV CRJ service in 2002 IIRC, just to step on FL's toes.

Did you read what I said? I said "reluctant to compete", this doesn't belittle the fact Delta entered the market after AirTran, it means they got tired of competing with them. Delta has 2x daily CRJ-700s to Atlanta btw.

Quoting Quickmover (Reply 11):
Didn't Eastern fly this route in the 80s and 90s?

Idk, but in the 80s they had a 2x daily MIA-FPO service with the L-1011.

Quoting N276AASTT (Reply 14):
Did Eastern fly ATL-STT?

Not sure, I know for a fact they did MIA-STT with the 757, keep in mind the runway was a little over 5,300 ft. at the time.



http://www.devanwells.blogspot.com/
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2712 times:

Quoting Laxintl (Thread starter):
Funny timing. They just decided to pull out from the Bahamas, and now talking about adding other Carrib locales.

This rumor has been ongoing for the past 3-4 years now. I wouldn't put much stock into it. If anything will come of it, I would venture to say that we will see SJU, STT, CUN. From both Atlanta and Orlando. However there is the remote chance that we could see them open a Caribbean focus ala F9 Cancun and Los Cabos.

-JD


User currently offlineQuickmover From United States of America, joined Mar 2004, 2494 posts, RR: 0
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2696 times:

Quoting MD90fan (Reply 17):
Idk, but in the 80s they had a 2x daily MIA-FPO service with the L-1011

Really?
I remember taking of from FPO in a TWA 727 and I thought the runway was short. I would have loved to see a 1011 blast out of there.


User currently offlineCitruscritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1117 posts, RR: 3
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2664 times:

Y'all are assuming service will be from ATL...as we saw with PWM, that's not necessarily the case. SJU and "other cities in Puerto Rico" would probably be served from MCO given Central Florida's huge Puerto Rican community as well as connections to many FL stations.

User currently offlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33052 posts, RR: 71
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 16 hours ago) and read 2645 times:

Quoting Citruscritter (Reply 20):
SJU and "other cities in Puerto Rico" would probably be served from MCO given Central Florida's huge Puerto Rican community as well as connections to many FL stations.

Serving San Juan from Orlando would be pointless. The market is large, but overcrowded with Delta, American, jetBlue, and Spirit. If they want to serve San Juan, they should serve it from Atlanta and, going out on a limb, but Miami (where AirTran has added four destinations since January), which is a high-fare market to San Juan, despite Spirit's pressence at FLL.



a.
User currently offlineRampero From Puerto Rico, joined Mar 2004, 125 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 2591 times:

Quoting Citruscritter (Reply 20):

Other cities in Puerto Rico are San Juan(sju) , Ponce(pse) and Aguadilla(bqn)

Rampero



"Ponce es Ponce" y lo demas es parking...
User currently offlineCitrusCritter From United States of America, joined May 2007, 1117 posts, RR: 3
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2473 times:

Sorry...am on my Blackberry only so I can't quote and my research capability is very limited. However, I do not believe MCO is pointless. FL has a lot of connections into MCO from throughout the system, and they are strong locally. B6's advantage would be their strength in the NYC market, which also has a sizeable Puerto Rican population. I do agree that MIA would be a good station, as well as TPA. I'd expect BWI for sure...the whole BWI op is largely serving non-WN stations - would fit that niche.

User currently offlineATLAaron From United States of America, joined Apr 2006, 1023 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 2455 times:

Quoting SkyyMaster (Reply 10):
Can't imagine that there are too many places in the Caribbean FL could go into without bumping into Delta.

That doesn't matter. I think FL has prooved they can compete in ATL with Delta.

Quoting Citruscritter (Reply 20):
Y'all are assuming service will be from ATL...as we saw with PWM, that's not necessarily the case. SJU and "other cities in Puerto Rico" would probably be served from MCO given Central Florida's huge Puerto Rican community as well as connections to many FL stations.

You are 100% correct. I am guilty as well, I immediately thought of them serving from ATL. I have several friends who live in SJU (and are not aviation buffs) and they would welcome FL with open arms. They would do just fine to multiple different destinations.

Quoting MAH4546 (Reply 21):
Serving San Juan from Orlando would be pointless. The market is large, but overcrowded with Delta, American, jetBlue, and Spirit. If

Are you saying that route is overcrowded or San Juan in general? Because the route itself certainly is not.


25 Post contains images NA747 : Give FL time, they will jump into the Caribbean. I'm sure they're busy with the YX situation. MAH may have a point about the saturation of the MCO-SJU
26 MAH4546 : I'm saying the route does not need a fifth airline.
27 Kimmykun : MAZ's runway is 4,998 feet long, could a 737 or 717 operate from there? Especially taking into account the typical Mayagüez heat. Of course, the hea
28 ATLAaron : Wow I stand corrected. I had no idea there was that much service from MCO-SJU already. Ok now I agree, FL should not serve SJU from MCO, BWI could be
29 2travel2know : Both Puerto Rico and U.S. Virgin Islands are pretty much U.S. domestic destinations regardless if both countries are in the Caribbean. AirTran could b
30 Fpofllflyboi : Must have been a hot and heavy day in Freeport whilst on that TWA 727. Their runway has been over 11k feet since built if i'm not mistaken. I flew on
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