Krje1980 From Norway, joined Feb 2006, 193 posts, RR: 0 Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16625 times:
Just an interesting thought. Do you all think there could be a possible market for a complete red-eye flight from Europe to North America? Say if a flight departs LHR around 1:30 a.m. and lands in SFO or LAX around 4:30 a.m. This means that business travelers could work a full day in Europe, take the overnight flight, and arrive fresh and ready for work (providing one flies J or F of course ). When flying the day-flight from Europe to the North American West Coast, one usually arrives quite tired because of the time difference, and as a result one "loses" a day of productivity.
I don't know if a complete red-eye from Europe to North America has ever existed, but I would think that it could be possible. I know that I certainly wouldn't mind taking such a flight as I find red-eyes more peaceful and relaxing than day-flights.
Again, I have no idea if this would really work, but it would certainly be interesting to hear other opinions on the issue!
UPPERDECKFAN From Spain, joined Jun 2007, 992 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16481 times:
Most of major airports in Europe have curfews inplace between 2300/2330 to 0430/0500, I can recall LHR, LGW, FRA, CDG, having to depart before midnight would result in a too early arrival to be practical.
Also a factor here is that expenses would go high as airlines would need ground staff at odd hours. Also transportation from the airport would be an issue.
IB flight to MEX is an exception because there is no curfew at MAD. They also have redeyes to EZE, GRU, MVD after midnight.
Airbazar From United States of America, joined Sep 2003, 8376 posts, RR: 10
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16464 times:
Quoting Trekster (Reply 5): Even if i were a business man, why on earth would i wanna land in LAX/SFO at 0430.
For the same reason you land in FRA/LHR at 5am. Why does it work in one direction and not in the other? I admit that some Eastbound red-eyes offer slightly better schedules but a red-eye is still a red-eye no matter what direction you fly
Krje1980 From Norway, joined Feb 2006, 193 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16445 times:
Well, I am sorry for not thinking about the night curfew Europe. You are right! This would really cause a lot of hassle. I guess I have my recent experiences from traveling South East Asia to Europe in mind. Here flights leave around midnight/1 a.m., and lands in Europe between 4 and 6 a.m. I actually prefer these flights, and find it much easier to cope with jet lag after these flights than after the day-flighs I've taken from Europe to the US.
LXA340 From Switzerland, joined Nov 2006, 2122 posts, RR: 3
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 13 hours ago) and read 16429 times:
Quoting CO7e7 (Reply 4): don't forget CO 91 TLV-EWR and DL 153 (i'm not sure about the flight #) TLV-ATL both depart TLV around midnight and arrive at the US destinations around dawn.
Same for LY flighs to YYZ and LAX. I would say LY is at the border as flight times are long enough and flights arrive more or less ok around 5AM or later. Whereas all other origins from Europe have a too short flying time to any destination in the USA to make a decent red eye. As somebody said you don't want to arrive at 3 or 4 AM. LY for instance has some weird flights leaving HKG early evening and arriving around 3AM in TLV which is also not good. Getting back to the red eye thing, it's the same vise versa, why almost no airline offers USA - Europe flights during the day. As flights would need to leave arly morning and arrive late in the evening. Hence, BA and AA offer flights from JFK, BOS and ORD to LHR and that's it if I am not wrong?
MAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 32787 posts, RR: 72
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 12 hours ago) and read 16255 times:
Quoting LXA340 (Reply 13):
Both of them used to be night fligh flights until a few months ago I gues they changed it then. Are you sure you aren't confusing the 12:55 departure to YYZ with the AC flight?
RFields5421 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 7607 posts, RR: 31
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 11 hours ago) and read 16065 times:
While the NAT system doesn't restrict east bound or west bound flights to specific hours - it STRONGLY encourages that flights stay within the set hours for the direction of travel.
Those hours are centered upon passing 30W @ 0400 UTC eastbound and @ 1500 UTC westbound
Remember the most critical parts of a North Atlantic crossing occur far away from any nagivation aids, in places where constant active communication with ATC is not possible, where ATC cannot confirm aircraft positions.
Navigation errors do occur - daily - the system works well and aircraft can contact other aircraft in the air along the route for help - lost SELCAL and CPDLC communications occurs - so position reports can be relayed by other aircraft.
2travel2know From Panama, joined Apr 2005, 3580 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15732 times:
One issue with red-eyes from Europe to North America is the arrival times in Northamerican airports.
Westbound red-eyes usually work when there are long flights and/or the time difference between Europe and destination is just a few hours.
AF, KL and IB for many years used to fly red-eyes to the Caribbean. I believe KL may still do it to CUR/AUA, not sure about AF to FDM and PTP.
I would think that the routes most likely to see red-eyes from Europe - flown by U.S. airlines - one day might be:
Haggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 15651 times:
Quoting RFields5421 (Reply 15): While the NAT system doesn't restrict east bound or west bound flights to specific hours - it STRONGLY encourages that flights stay within the set hours for the direction of travel.
well, what about the AF late evening flight to and dailight flight from JFK, then?
YULWinterSkies From United States of America, joined Jun 2005, 2179 posts, RR: 5
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15560 times:
I know that NRT-CDG on AF at night is fairly successful so why not? But curfew on major European airports (the only ones who might have the market for those) will not help. Also, the big markets in N Am are mostly in the North part (NYC, ORD, YYZ) so flights actually are rather short for a lot of time zones crossed, which makes you arrive almost at the same time as you left. Also, long parking times for aircraft after arrival in America could play against, although they could be used for a daylight return flight.
Noelg From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 15520 times:
I did LHR-YYZ as a red eye on AC a few years ago, not sure if it's still operational but we departed at 21:00 from LHR and arrived in Toronto at 00:00. Ours was just about the last flight in, we then had an 8 hour layover in the check in hall at YYZ for a flight at 08:30 the following morning to MIA!
It was really wierd arriving in YYZ seemingly 3 hours after departing LHR!