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What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER?  
User currently online1337Delta764 From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 6535 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10474 times:

Delta has been expanding internationally at a fast rate. Delta has six 777-200LRs on order. With the growing international capacity, I wouldn't be suprised if Delta were to order some 777-300ERs. If Delta were to order the 777-300ER, what routes could they potentially be used on?

I would say ATL-NRT, and maybe ATL-TLV.


The Pink Delta 767-400ER - The most beautiful aircraft in the sky
79 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineCV880 From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 1132 posts, RR: 2
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10445 times:

ATL/PVG-PEK
ATL/GRU
ATL/HKG
LAX/NRT
LAX/HKG
LAX/SYD
JFK/NRT
JFK/HKG


User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 11 hours ago) and read 10432 times:

This topic has been covered in previous "what will Delta do with 777-XXX" threads.

Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineDL767captain From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2539 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10254 times:

I think it would be great for DL to get some 777-300's, it seems like they could definitely use them. Personally i would like to see DL order the 747-8 but im guessing it would be too big for them. I think we will see a -300 order soon, maybe even at the same time as the 787 announcement and they could be taking some 777's at a good deal to hold them over until the 787's are available.

User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 9 hours ago) and read 10247 times:

Quoting CV880 (Reply 1):
LAX/SYD

DL couldn't possibly compete with UA and QF on this route...



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineAlitalia744 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 4750 posts, RR: 44
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10170 times:

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 4):
DL couldn't possibly compete with UA and QF on this route...

This is based on what?



Some see lines, others see between the lines.
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10167 times:

I hope DL management is looking this thread over.

My opinion: I think DL will eventually order them. When is any ones guess but they need something bigger than the 772ER and 772L on some routes and could see it fitting in nicely into DL's fleet.

Routes that warrant it:

ATL-TLV
ATL-NRT
JFK-TLV
ATL-CDG
ATL-SCL

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineGeorgebush From New Zealand, joined Jul 2006, 679 posts, RR: 0
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 8 hours ago) and read 10154 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
This is based on what?

They would have to charge too much.



Al Gore invented global warming.
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10101 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
Routes that warrant it:

ATL-TLV
ATL-NRT
JFK-TLV
ATL-CDG
ATL-SCL

ATL-SCL??
I would place the 777-300 on ATL-GRU long before the service to Santiago. There is a much stronger demand for service to the Brazilian market than the Chilean market, This is made even more evident with the number of flights that not only Delta Air Lines, but other US airlines offer to the Brazilian market.

ATL-TLV & JFK-TLV??
With the advent of the JFK-TLV to compliment the ATL-TLV, there is not a need to upgrade the ATL service to a 777-300. Remember the JFK-TLV service has not started, and Continental could very well remain the only SkyTeam service on NYC-TLV for the long run. Delta was in the market before but left. Today they are going up against airlines that have a much longer established presence. Take a wait an see attitude.

ATL-NRT??
I think that we will be seeing a JFK-NRT with the 777-200 within the next year or so. In that case the expansion in the Japanese market with an additional service from JFK will not warrant anything larger than the 777-200 currently being used to Narita.

ATL-CDG??
At current Atlanta is more than well served with the current flights to Roissy offered by Air France and Delta Air Lines. Combining that with the immense amount of service by Air France to other US markets of SFO, LAX, IAD, EWR, PHL, JFK, BOS, MIA, IAH, DTW, ORD, and SEA you do not have the need for such a large aircraft on the Atlanta to Paris route.

Quoting CV880 (Reply 1):

ATL/PVG-PEK
ATL/HKG
LAX/NRT
LAX/HKG
LAX/SYD
JFK/HKG

ATL-PVG & ATL-PEK??
Neither route has been given the go ahead, the routes if they are given the authority would be much better served with a 777-200LR. The demand and connections from and through the Atlanta gateway does not, nor will not sustain d=feasibility on anything larger than the 777-200LR.

ATL-HKG??
I am betting that this route is being looked at with service on the 777-200LR, as it is within the range. To place a 777-300 on a new route that has not been proven would be suicide. I cannot see this route warranting anything larger than a 777-200LR.

LAX-NRT??
If and when this route will/may return has yet to be seen. Delta Air Lines would have to command a larger market presence than United Airlines in the LAX market to make the route work with anything larger than a 777-200. To use a 777-300 on the route would be financial suicide. To use such a large plane in an already overcrowded and highly competitive market would bode well for the new entrant. If however the route proved well and Delta Air Lines reached the market share level that United Airlines has in the LAX market, at only that point could I see such a large aircraft being used.

LAX-HKG??
Please see above.. I would add that Delta Air Lines re-entering the Los Angeles to Asia market is a huge gamble. During the time of Delta Air Lines absence from the market Cathay Pacific has expanded and United Airlines is resuming service. Delta Air Lines going up against the 3x 747-400 of CX and 1x 747-400 of UA is going to be very hard to tap into. United Airlines has an established presence in Hong Kong with onward connections to Saigon and Singapore. Cathay Pacific is based in Hong Kong. The route would also compete with China Southern, a Delta code-share partner that serves the Los Angeles to Canton route, which is not far from Hong Kong.

LAX-SYD??
Please see above.. I would add that the route would be going head to head with Qantas, United Airlines, and V Australia. Again you would be running into a much more established presence of United and Qantas in the market. On the Australian side you have Virgin Blue/V Australia which is very well known and has a very, very esteemed product. Again, I could not see a 777-300 on a route that Delta has not yet established, and marketplace in the LAX arena the is vastly overshadowed by that of United Airlines.

JFK-HKG??
Please see above..

-JD


User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10050 times:

What are the differences in the amount of passangers held in an 772LR and an 773?


Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 10000 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 9):
What are the differences in the amount of passangers held in an 772LR and an 773?

The 773ER hold more pax but has less range. It can do most transpac missions easily.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineEXAAUADL From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9973 times:

other than the conduit market of ATL-CDG, i dont see it

User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 7 hours ago) and read 9955 times:

Quoting Georgebush (Reply 7):
They would have to charge too much.

you do realize that DL's costs are lower than UA's, don't you. If UA can make money and DL and UA get comparable revenues, DL will make more money.

While I agree w/ Alitalia that the specualtion is riveting, I wouldn't go too far out on a limb in doing DL's route planning just yet.

I will make a couple comments.... I don't think you will see DL put a 777 into Latin America.... 1st, South America schedules eat up too much airplane time and 2nd, if there is enough demand for a 777, DL will add additional gateways. The 767 is likely to be DL's plane for South America for quite some time.

the most likely candidate for a 773 in DL's network will be LHR... they will have limited slots and will maximize the lift they can get out of those relatively small number of slots. Given that JFK and ATL both have large connecting banks, the 773 can easily pump lots of passengers into LHR.


User currently offlineQXatFAT From Israel, joined Feb 2006, 2404 posts, RR: 5
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9825 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 10):
The 773ER hold more pax but has less range. It can do most transpac missions easily.

How many more pax's though. People keep on saying it would be fullish to upgrade from an 772 to an 773. Are the passanger numbers that much different?

Thanks for the info though MCO



Don't Tread On Me!
User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9813 times:

Quoting QXatFAT (Reply 13):

Thanks for the info though MCO

Anytime.

It would worth it to upgrade a route with full pax and cargo. It wouldn't if it wasn't making money. I'm sure everyone will agree the Braziil and TLV markets warrant a 300ER.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9778 times:

Great bird for DL international expantion.

ATL-CDG
ATL-TLV (and then the 772 to ATL-GRU)
ATL-NRT



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 5 hours ago) and read 9730 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
Combining that with the immense amount of service by Air France to other US markets of SFO, LAX, IAD, EWR, PHL, JFK, BOS, MIA, IAH, DTW, ORD, and SEA you do not have the need for such a large aircraft on the Atlanta to Paris route.

but still AF is currently serving CDG-ATL with a 744 with close to 500 seats....



300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineDeltaL1011man From United States of America, joined exactly 9 years ago today! , 9423 posts, RR: 14
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 3 days 4 hours ago) and read 9645 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 8):
Please see above.. I would add that Delta Air Lines re-entering the Los Angeles to Asia market is a huge gamble. During the time of Delta Air Lines absence from the market Cathay Pacific has expanded and United Airlines is resuming service. Delta Air Lines going up against the 3x 747-400 of CX and 1x 747-400 of UA is going to be very hard to tap into. United Airlines has an established presence in Hong Kong with onward connections to Saigon and Singapore. Cathay Pacific is based in Hong Kong. The route would also compete with China Southern, a Delta code-share partner that serves the Los Angeles to Canton route, which is not far from Hong Kong.

I'm sorry LAX-Asia again?(try PDX not LAX) and BTW there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America(ATL #1) and they would add Asia flights as soon as the get the A/C(hint 125 787s plus as main T7s they can get)
I'm to lazy to find that press release but its out there somewhere



yep.
User currently offlineThering From Brazil, joined Jun 2006, 530 posts, RR: 0
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9373 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America

Really? Didn't know about that. Although that's weird, since they've started JFK-GRU services last year and not LAX-GRU.

Do they already fly LAX-LIM?? LAN is on that and RG used to run this service starting at GRU also on the golden years, so it looks like to be a good shot.



146 319 320 321 332 722 732 733 734 735 73G 738 742 743 744 762 763 772 773 CRJ ER4 100 F50 F27 M11 D10
User currently offlineSkyyMaster From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 9351 times:

Quoting DeltaL1011man (Reply 17):
BTW there was a press release from DL that LAX would become the number too DL hub to Latin America

As of yet, this consists solely of Mexico (mostly all ERJ's) and a handful of destinations in Central America. If/when DL ramps up trans-Pacific service, I can see them also going into South America. They could try a couple of the larger destinations there, but I wouldn't expect to see a huge expansion beyond what they already have until they have sufficient feed at LAX. It will take them awhile to rebuild the hub they pulled down there, if that is indeed their plan.


User currently offlineJetlanta From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 3297 posts, RR: 35
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9130 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 2):
Let them first indicate what they'll be flying with their 6+ 77Ls before we go crazy on 77Ws...shall we?

It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come.


User currently offline777STL From United States of America, joined Dec 2004, 3642 posts, RR: 3
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 9073 times:

Quoting Alitalia744 (Reply 5):
This is based on what?

Lack of feeding/connecting traffic in Australia for one.....

UA has NZ to an extent and QF has AA in the US.



PHX based
User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7063 posts, RR: 4
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8908 times:

Quoting MCOflyer (Reply 6):
I hope DL management is looking this thread over.

I think they have better sources for their fleet requirements than a.net  Wink
Nevertheless a 77W in Delta colors would look great, the 77W is without doubt the best looking 777 (at least in my humble opinion).



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineMCOAviationFan From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 247 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8844 times:

Quoting Jetlanta (Reply 20):
It's 8 now. Quite possibly more to come

The last official word from DL that I am aware of is that they converted one 777ER option to an order for a 777LR bringing the total number of 777LRs on order to 6. When were the additional two aircraft you mentioned above ordered?


User currently offlineMCOflyer From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 8675 posts, RR: 15
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 8789 times:

Quoting Columba (Reply 22):
I think they have better sources for their fleet requirements than a.net Wink
Nevertheless a 77W in Delta colors would look great, the 77W is without doubt the best looking 777 (at least in my humble opinion).

I agree but they have management looking everything over as people on here work for DL.

If DL were to order the 77W for the following routes they would need:

ATL-TLV- 2a/c
ATL-GRU- 2a/c
ATL-CDG- 1a/c
ATL-NRT- 2a/c

That makes 7 a/c but they could it with 6 if DL times everything right. If DL were to order it, expect to see a order of 6-8 773ER.

Hunter



Never be afraid to stand up for who you are.
25 FURUREFA : Not if UA has significant connection opportunities in LAX and is much more established in the Australian and Los Angeles markets. Matt
26 MSYtristar : ATL-CDG would be a good candidate for the 77W....hub to hub flights always rack in the passengers....and from what I seen, the flights generally alway
27 Post contains images Alitalia744 : Notice I said 6+ and have been for a while now You are correct on the last official word being a total of 6
28 DL767captain : Is there any chance DL could use a 748 or would it be just too big
29 MCOflyer : No way. Too much capacity. Its a good idea. Hunter
30 ConcordeBoy : Brazil may (or may not) warrant it... but the scheduling stipulations of the S.American market may lead DL to envision better overall utilization for
31 Post contains images Olle : Is it smart to order new 777 when there is a A350 around the corner? As I understand the 777 is outsold for a while and why get a product that is less
32 Alitalia744 : Well considering the A350 won't be out for another, what? let's say 7-8 years and they need ULH/LH capacity now, it is kinda smart no?
33 Post contains images MCOAviationFan : Actually, I had noticed the 6+ you have mentioned. You're usually spot on in your comments so I went to the Boeing site to check on orders and it sti
34 Rb211 : With the way D E L T A 's summer schedule usually runs, I wouldn't be suprised to see one or two ATL-MCO. They've run it with every big jet they can t
35 FLYGUY767 : LAX-HKG LAX-NRT LAX-NGO LAX-ANC-SEL All flown by Delta Air Lines in the past.. The Latin American market for what it is worth from Los Angeles doesn'
36 Olle : So when can an airline that today orders a 777 get it delivered? It has been a great sales success and should be sold out for a while....
37 Alitalia744 : Well all of Delta's 6+ 777LRs will be delivered by the end of 2009, so within 2 years.
38 DL767captain : Well ya it is smart for a couple reasons, the A350 won't be out for like 7 years and the earliest delivery slots could be taken, and if they wanted t
39 MCOAviationFan : I understand that the first two LR's for DL will be delivered in Feb and Mar 2008 to fly JFK-BOM. The two ER's currently on the route will probably be
40 Brucek : Slightly off topic but: I have often wondered, if airline execs that were able to post here with information that quashed any speculation over routes
41 ConcordeBoy : IINM, DL already carries more pax from LAX to LatAm nonstop than any other carrier, and it's not anywhere near done growing its network there. Only i
42 Post contains images Atlantaflyboy : Considering that DL is planning on upgrading it's Biz-Elite product on the 777 fleet with the introduction of the LR next year I would guess that any
43 FLYGUY767 : If that is true that is great news... Do you have a source? I question the viability of Delta Air Lines to offer service from South America to the LA
44 Alitalia744 : Delta's 777-232LRs will be configured 43J/233Y for a total of 276 seats.
45 MCOAviationFan : Several of DL's int'l routes report 90% load factors year round (ATL - NRT being one). This would indicate these routes could use a higher capacity ai
46 ConcordeBoy : Grinstein's personal message would be the latest, spouted off the numbers. Doubt that one would still be up there, but they're available for anyone t
47 Post contains links FLYGUY767 : ORD has a lot more O/D than ATL could ever imagine to have.. Lets not open the pandoras box of O/D markets again.. Here is a excellent source.. http:
48 Greggarious : What is the reason for this? North-South routings instead of East-West ones?
49 Delta4eva : Uh...yeah Chicago and NYC have higher O/D in general, however, they are served by multiple airports. If you look at ConcordeBoy's statement, he said
50 FLYGUY767 : Not Las Vegas, and Las Vegas is above Atlanta in O/D traffic.. -JD
51 WorldTraveler : are you sure DL flew LAX-SEL when it transferred its PDX operations to LAX before 9/11? if you read non-aviation business news, you'll know that Whol
52 OA412 : And ConcordeBoy clearly stated that ATL is #4 in overall O/D for a single airport making it fairly obvious that there are 3 airports above ATL, LAS b
53 Post contains images Alitalia744 : Officially its 6 frames. Unofficially it's probably more [Edited 2007-07-30 01:51:20]
54 ConcordeBoy : Wrong. Chicago generates more O&D than Atlanta, but ORD does not handle more O&D than ATL. Domestic O&D yes, total O&D, no. No, I said it was (the ye
55 Post contains images OA412 : Yeah you did so that's my mistake. I guess I should learn to read more closely.
56 Atmx2000 : Let's not call the South East the most "densely" populated region. The South is the most populous region if you divide the US into West, South, Midwe
57 Post contains images MCOAviationFan : Here are my thoughts on this. If you are running upwards of 90% load factors on a route, you're probably booked full or overbooked most days and the
58 Post contains images Alitalia744 : What vest? I work in t-shirts and jeans!
59 Post contains links FLYGUY767 : I am more than sure and it was with the L1011... via Anchorage, or Portland.. Totally disagree... I would refer you to the demographics of the Northe
60 Atlantaflyboy : And again - ALL of these metro areas are served by multiple airports - ATL has just 1 that serves over 5 million people. The next closest alternative
61 MCOAviationFan : Boy, do I wish I could work in t-shirts and jeans! That is unless you count the "honey do" list. I always wear my grungiest clothes for that! You're
62 WorldTraveler : The most likely reason DL will have to order 773ERs is to replace the 744s that NW operates and which DL will acquire in the merger that NW's stockhol
63 Centrair : Though it might be great to see the 773ER in DL colors, I think it is a long shot. It sounds like DL wants to build up the LAX hub again with flights
64 Post contains links OA412 : Good Lord I'm really batting 1000 on this thread! Anyway, you are, of course, correct that the South is in fact the most populous region not the most
65 RwSEA : Well, yeah ... ... but that data paints with a pretty broad stroke. I doubt many people in Maryland consider themselves Southerners. Most would consi
66 Fewsolarge : Have you ever been to Virginia, besides the DC area? It's definitely Southern culturally. Maryland, these days, since it's dominated by Baltimore and
67 Post contains images Jetlanta : I guess I don't have Alitalia744's credibility! I'm devastated!
68 FLYGUY767 : You are changing your stories.. You said... Then you backtracked when you were proven wrong.. You said... Back to the topic... The 777-300 may be use
69 Post contains images Alitalia744 : C'mon now Jetlanta Hey at least you got to spill the beans! Hows things?
70 EI321 : If delta wanted a plane this big they would order it. They will stick with the 777-200LR and then order the 787.
71 OA412 : Huh? Did you even visit the link I provided? 1/3 of the US's population lives in the Southeast. If you don't want to believe facts compiled by the US
72 FLYGUY767 : The South.... not the Southeast!!! ...The topic at hand... What If Delta Orders The 777-300ER? I would draw attention to the population in the region
73 Post contains images Jetlanta : Its no fun if no one believes you! Things are interesting for sure. I don't know if DL will pick up any 777-300ER's, but they won't stop at 8 LR's. T
74 Post contains images MCOAviationFan : You've got to admit Alitalia744 is a pretty credible source. I'm pretty new to posting here, so I haven't read a whole lot of your posts, but it seem
75 Jetlanta : He is. I'm not terribly prolific on here, but if I say something flat out, you can count on it. Yes, you won't see a big order for 777LR's, they will
76 Thering : They would surely put the 773ER on the JFK-BOM service, to face Air India's new 772LR product. This, not considering that they may put their 772LR bef
77 Evan767 : Actually, if I interperet what Alitalia744 says correctly, he simply studies the webcasts, press releases, etc. Jetlanta seems like he may have some
78 CV880 : Airlines like CX and SQ are virtually taking over the US-Asian markets with their 744's, A346's, and 777 varieties. To be competitive, DL will not onl
79 Jetlanta : Yet, people millions of people make that choice every year. Schedule convenience, corporate contracts, frequent flier loyalty, etc... There are lots
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