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JQ - Charge You $15.00 To Apply For A Job!  
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7287 times:

My dislike for JQ is not popular on this forum and the beauty is we can all have our opinions however, JQ charge 15.00 to apply for a job. Can any JQ employees confirm this is the same for all positions? I am sure even if you like JQ that you will agree this has gone too far!!

Is anyone else OUTRAGED about this utter arrogance and stupidity!?!?


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
40 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7270 times:

Well, its not as bad as some airlines! One LCC I know of charges 200GBP to apply to be a pilot - and 20,000GBP extra IF you are successful!

User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7270 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Thread starter):
Is anyone else OUTRAGED about this utter arrogance and stupidity!?!?

Outraged? Not really. But it is "outrageous" enough to spread! Universities have been charging application fees for as long as I can remember, so why not employers?



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7247 times:

Well, it is outrageous in my opinion and downright typical of JQ and QF arrogance.........not even TR charge nor do DJ........geezus what is the world coming to!


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineVHVXB From Australia, joined Apr 2006, 5525 posts, RR: 18
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7200 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Thread starter):
My dislike for JQ is not popular on this forum and the beauty is we can all have our opinions however, JQ charge 15.00 to apply for a job

Were you planning to apply for a position?  

[Edited 2007-07-29 14:18:08]

User currently offlineVHECA From Australia, joined May 2007, 262 posts, RR: 0
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 6 hours ago) and read 7187 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 3):
Well, it is outrageous in my opinion and downright typical of JQ and QF arrogance.........not even TR charge nor do DJ........geezus what is the world coming to!

One of Low Cost Carriers, perhaps? It would not suprise me to see some airlines try to cover costs we they have sacrificed them on airfares.

It could be worse, I guess, as stated above by Sevenair. Some business call it "Application Processing Fees".



Types Flown on - 312,320,722,732,733,73H,73W,742,743,74C,752,762,AB4,D1C,D28,DHT,F27,L11
User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 2 hours ago) and read 6963 times:

It does cost airlines quite a bit of money to hire employees. They've got to pay for a criminal/employment background check, drug testing, physicals (Some airlines actually make employees take a pre-employment physical, most for CYA reasons. When I went to work for EV, they did ergonomics tests, hearing tests, vision tests, and some of the usual stuff a physical entails.), and that's even before you get sent to training. And if the person isn't going to be based out of the city where the training center is, they have to fly them to that city and put them up in a hotel for the duration of training. That's hundreds of dollars (or even thousands of dollars) invested before the person even is officially hired. And what if after all that, the person washes out of training or quits during training? Or say several days into the training, something like a positive drug test or something in their background check they didn't disclose immediately disqualifies them from the job? Or they get through training, get out there in the field and decide they made a bad decision and quit? That's money the company has essentially wasted. So you can't blame a company for charging to submit an application, as it helps offset the costs they incur with screening potential employees.


Hypothetical and overly simplified situation:

Let's say it costs XYZ Airlines on average, $500 to hire a single ramper. Over the course of the year, they process 5,000 applications of which 1000 applicants get asked to go to training and go through all of the pre-employment processes. And of those 1000, 500 of them bail out of the process at some point or are disqualified for employment. Of the remaining 500, 150 don't even last a few months in the job. So barely a third of the folks they brought in to join the company over the course of a year even remain with the company. In some cases this may barely keep up with turnover. Cost break down:

$500,000 spent to process 1000 potential employees.
$250,000 the amount of money spent on those who did not finish the hiring process for whatever reason(s).
$75,000 the amount of money spent to process employees who worked for the airline a very short time.

So essentially, $325,000 got wasted a year.

Now let's say they charged $25 to apply for a job and despite the charge, they still managed to attract 5000 applicants a year. That generates $125,000 a year, which helps cut the amount of "wasted" money by well over a third.

It also probably helps them get better candidates for the job as well (as people willing to spend money in order to apply for the job are more than likely serious applicants), and potentially over time, the amount of money spent on applicants that don't pan out or stay with the company very briefly after hiring gets less and less. This in turn could eventually mean that the application fees pay for the processing of provisional employees and in the long run saves the company money.


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 3
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6883 times:

Quoting Srbmod (Reply 6):
It does cost airlines quite a bit of money to hire employees. They've got to pay for a criminal/employment background check, drug testing, physicals (Some airlines actually make employees take a pre-employment physical, most for CYA reasons. When I went to work for EV, they did ergonomics tests, hearing tests, vision tests, and some of the usual stuff a physical entails.), and that's even before you get sent to training. And if the person isn't going to be based out of the city where the training center is, they have to fly them to that city and put them up in a hotel for the duration of training. That's hundreds of dollars (or even thousands of dollars) invested before the person even is officially hired. And what if after all that, the person washes out of training or quits during training? Or say several days into the training, something like a positive drug test or something in their background check they didn't disclose immediately disqualifies them from the job? Or they get through training, get out there in the field and decide they made a bad decision and quit? That's money the company has essentially wasted. So you can't blame a company for charging to submit an application, as it helps offset the costs they incur with screening potential employees.

The company is in the business to make money. It costs money to make money. The company is investing time and money in the tools it needs to make that money, and the tools include employees.

The employee doesn't choose where they are to be based, so if the airline has to fly them and put them up in a hotel, etc. that's the airline's fault, not the employee's. If the person washes out or quits, that's life and the company tries to recoup losses as tax write-offs.

If several days into the training, something like a positive drug test result disqualifies them from the job, then the airline's drug testing lab has the responsibility to perform the drug tests earlier to prevent a repeat. The candidate should also be informed of the result - drug tests are not perfect.

If someone does get the job and then decides they made a bad decision and quit, that's life. The company is no more committed to the employee than the employee to the company. Companies don't spend money on training, etc. for the benefit of the employee - they spend it for the benefit of the company.

So, yes, since the company is in business solely to make money, and it uses employees to achieve that goal, and the company has sole choice over who they hire and who they don't, I can blame them for charging a fee.

Now if they were forced to hire anyone who handed in an application, that would be entirely different.


User currently offlineSmcmac32msn From United States of America, joined May 2004, 2211 posts, RR: 4
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6872 times:

I thought it was a bad idea for them to charge when I first read this thread, but its actually a good idea. $15 isn't a lot and it makes the future employee think about what their doing before they apply. It costs the airline money to send the new hire to training in the hub city and if they don't end up staying very long, they atleast get to recover $15 of that $$$$$ to the employee (who didn't last's training). It makes you wonder and weeds out who really doesn't want to apply/work for that company.


Hey Obama, keep the change! I want my dollar back.
User currently offlinePilottim747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2001, 1607 posts, RR: 5
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6824 times:

This all sound great except that they'll be missing out on talent that won't apply because of this application fee.

I am in the midst of a job search. I've applied to about 40 different jobs so far at many different companies. It's obvious to me that the majority of my job applications will not turn into an offer for a position. If a company tried to charge me $15 to submit an application I'd just move on...lots of companies out there who don't charge.



Aviation Photographers & Enthusiasts--Coordinate your life.
User currently offlinePoitin From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 6793 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 7):
The company is in the business to make money. It costs money to make money. The company is investing time and money in the tools it needs to make that money, and the tools include employees.

Absolutely correct. It is a cost of business to find good people.

Maybe they should have to hire a headhunter to find them applicants, like we do in the high tech world. If they are charging money for people to apply, then they should not be surprised that the don't get the better people who are turned off by the arrogance and in time wonder why they are so short of qualified personal. If this is true of JQ, then it is very, very shortsighted.


User currently offlineSrbmod From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 6749 times:

Quoting Pilottim747 (Reply 9):
This all sound great except that they'll be missing out on talent that won't apply because of this application fee.

Those who are willing to pay are more than likely serious about wanting the job. Sure some potentially good applicants may be missed because they aren't willing to pay to apply, but it also separates the wheat from the chaff as it were.

Having gotten hired at two airlines via open houses, the vast majority of those who attended those job fairs didn't even get invited to go to training. When I was hired at FL, the open house I went to had probably close to 100 people and of that number, barely 20 of them were invited to training. Of that 20-odd people, 12 actually completed training. When I was hired at EV, there was about 25 folks who showed up for that one, and only 7 got asked to continue the process. Recruiting employees in this manner can be very time consuming as on occasion, it takes time to get enough bodies to even be able to hold training classes. I used to know a guy @ FL that went into recruiting department and he told me that at times it would take several open houses or booths at job fairs to even get enough folks to hold a training class. It was not uncommon to have folks wait several weeks to be told when to report to the training center.


Quoting Khobar (Reply 7):
The employee doesn't choose where they are to be based, so if the airline has to fly them and put them up in a hotel, etc. that's the airline's fault, not the employee's.

While that may be true for pilots, F/As, and mechanics, it's not necessarily true when it comes to ramp agents, ticket agents, or gate agents. When I went through training @ EV back in 2000, the first three days of classroom training included folks who were going to be working at an outstation and were hired in that local area. Someone who was going to work as an agent in PFN wasn't going to be hired out of ATL nor would someone from another city be hired to work at ATL unless they had already made plans to move up here anyway (I knew some guys when I worked at FL that pretty much moved here in order to get hired because they weren't hiring at their home airport and were hoping to transfer there eventually.).


User currently offlineJhooper From United States of America, joined Dec 2001, 6204 posts, RR: 12
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 3 weeks ago) and read 6668 times:

Soon you're going to be paying "application fees" to the FAA to get your certificates, so be ready for it. BTW, $15 isn't unreasonable and helps keeps frivolous and unqualified people from applying wasting everyone's time and resources. If you really want to work for JQ, it's should be a no-brainer for you. If I recall, when AA was hiring in the late 90s, didn't they charge a $100 application fee?


Last year 1,944 New Yorkers saw something and said something.
User currently offlineGemuser From Australia, joined Nov 2003, 5659 posts, RR: 6
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6521 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 3):
Well, it is outrageous in my opinion and downright typical of JQ and QF arrogance.........not even TR charge nor do DJ........geezus what is the world coming to!

Even if your are right about TR now (I have doubts) don't expect it to last much beyond the actual start of operations. This practise AFAIK originated with FR in the airline world so it will be no big surprise to see it happen at TR.

In Oz it is starting to become standard practise in some industries and is estimated to be common within 2-3 years. Once again it's not just JQ and not just the airlines.

gemuser



DC23468910;B72172273373G73873H74374475275376377L77W;A319 320321332333343;BAe146;C402;DHC6;F27;L188;MD80MD85
User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6489 times:

I am floored by the apathy..........where does the responsibility of the employee lay when it comes to paying for good people?


Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 20 hours ago) and read 6473 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Thread starter):
My dislike for JQ is not popular on this forum and the beauty is we can all have our opinions however, JQ charge 15.00 to apply for a job.

Northwest Airlines charged a $25.00 fee payable by check in 1995 or 1996 to apply for a Flight Attendant position..

It is not a new pratice, and it makes sense. Doing the research to hire a candidate can take a lot of money. It would make sense that they charge for an applicant to apply. In addition it weeds out the applicants who really want the job.

-JD


User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 19 hours ago) and read 6191 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 16):
Northwest Airlines charged a $25.00 fee payable by check in 1995 or 1996 to apply for a Flight Attendant position..

It is not a new pratice, and it makes sense. Doing the research to hire a candidate can take a lot of money. It would make sense that they charge for an applicant to apply. In addition it weeds out the applicants who really want the job.

-JD

Well, I guess I totally and utterly disagree. It is a new practice in Australia I guess more and more we are going down the "free marketeer" track like our friends across the pacific. I might start charging my employer each time I tidy my office or fix a small issue with my computer.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineGreggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6133 times:

I could think of worse possibilities. I payed about $500 a couple of years ago to apply to seven universities (around $70 per school). Last year I decided to transfer, so I wound up doing it twice. Like I said, it could be worse. The costs surrounding applying (and attending, but that's another story) to American universities are far more outrageous, in my honest opinion. Considering all the work that goes into reviewing applicants, I'd say that 15 dollars is actually somewhat reasonable.

User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 6041 times:

Quoting Greggarious (Reply 17):
I could think of worse possibilities. I payed about $500 a couple of years ago to apply to seven universities (around $70 per school). Last year I decided to transfer, so I wound up doing it twice. Like I said, it could be worse. The costs surrounding applying (and attending, but that's another story) to American universities are far more outrageous, in my honest opinion. Considering all the work that goes into reviewing applicants, I'd say that 15 dollars is actually somewhat reasonable.

Fortunately our Universities in Australia are not as corporatized as in the U.S and yes there is an application fee however I am puzzled why Universities are even being mentioned in this thread. Universities are not corporations and never should be.

The argument of it weeding out frivolous applicants is irrelevant in my humble opinion because applying for a job is not a slap-dash microsoft word job, it takes time. Anyone knows if you are to be taken seriously you need to put a hell of a lot of work into an application. If people apply who are time wasters the weeding out process is simple, take one glance and put the application to one side. I feel the arguments are flimsy, this is money making venture for JQ and before you ask if I know what it is like to hire people, yes I do, I hire people in my current position from beginning to end.



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineHalophila From United States of America, joined Aug 2005, 646 posts, RR: 4
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5980 times:

This may prevent 'doll diary' spurious applications for positions for which doll recipients are hopelessly underqualified. I haven't lived in Australia for several years now, but when I was young it was common practice for doll recipients to apply for doctor's positions, just to satisfy their number of applications for that week.


Flown on 707, 717, 727, 732 733 734 735 73G 738 739 741 742 743 744 74SP 757 753 762 763 772 773 77W D10 DC9 M11 M80 M87
User currently offlineIndustrybuff From United Arab Emirates, joined Dec 2003, 347 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5967 times:

Hello All

JQ charges new applicants an admin fee, QF charges all new applicants for the ASIC and
police history checks, and all MAM casual FA's also pay fees both to QF and to MAM before
commencing employment. As for DJ im waiting confirmation on that.

Anyway its a small sum of money .... and the way of the world.

* Id like to know if Sparklehorse has been interviewed for a role with JQ, didnt get it and therefore
lost his money * ?????

Cheers
Ibuff


User currently offlineSparklehorse12 From Australia, joined Feb 2007, 908 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

* Id like to know if Sparklehorse has been interviewed for a role with JQ, didnt get it and therefore
lost his money * ?????

Cheers
Ibuff[/quote]

Hello Industrybuff,

No , I did not apply for a job with JQ, have never and never will for the simple reason that I personally don't want to work for a company that behaves like JQ does and dumbs down the standards of business in this country(purely my opinion)

Quoting Industrybuff (Reply 20):
Anyway its a small sum of money .... and the way of the world.

What world are you living in? It's news to me and many other people.....look up seek or career one, I don't see any application fee's on there when you apply for positions. QF charge the applicant for the relevant checks after they are verbally offered the position subject to the checks, so your assertion is incorrect. Have fun in your world.
 wave 

* I wonder if Industrybuff knows DJ don't charge for applying*



Airlines Flown : QF,NW,AA, CX, AC, MH, SQ, DJ, NZ, TG, PG,US, FJ, J8, AN, DD, JQ
User currently offlineGreggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 18 hours ago) and read 5818 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 18):
Universities are not corporations and never should be.

Welcome to America! Unfortunately, my college experience thus far has indicated that American universities tend to be administered as such. It's a shame, but education is a business these days.

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 18):
Anyone knows if you are to be taken seriously you need to put a hell of a lot of work into an application.

By the same token, reviewing applications can also be a painstaking process, as I'm sure you know (judging by the rest of your post). While it's possible that they might be attempting to earn some extra money on the side (as you and VHECA [reply #5] suggest), I don't find it particularly unreasonable.

Quoting Khobar (Reply 7):
So, yes, since the company is in business solely to make money, and it uses employees to achieve that goal, and the company has sole choice over who they hire and who they don't, I can blame them for charging a fee.

That's the rub, in a nutshell.

Edit: Grammar

[Edited 2007-07-30 02:28:49]

User currently offlineRIHNOSAUR From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 362 posts, RR: 1
Reply 23, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 17 hours ago) and read 5557 times:

Quoting Sparklehorse12 (Reply 18):
The argument of it weeding out frivolous applicants is irrelevant in my humble opinion because applying for a job is not a slap-dash microsoft word job, it takes time. Anyone knows if you are to be taken seriously you need to put a hell of a lot of work into an application. If people apply who are time wasters the weeding out process is simple, take one glance and put the application to one side. I feel the arguments are flimsy, this is money making venture for JQ and before you ask if I know what it is like to hire people, yes I do, I hire people in my current position from beginning to end.

 checkmark   checkmark   checkmark 

very well said...with all honesty, I am very surprised to hear some people's opinion on this issue, granted I respect every one's opinion here but I just do not understand all those of you who are out there to defend the righteousness of a company to charge applications fees ..(are they paying you to think this way or what????). IMO that is just outrageous and out hand.

the company is indeed out there to make money but where do you draw the line?????..I work for a company and I completely understand that the bottom line is to make money....but I also help them make money as an employee and I can surely tell you that I spend so much of my personal time "which benefits the company" do I feel that I am entitled to charge extra for all the instances here and there when i sacrifice my personal time....

as mentioned before....when my computer breaks down ..when there are problems in transportation...when a business trip is delayed........when I have to spend a weekend out of home....should I "charge the company for every singe aspect that affects my personal life...

NO

I know one must charge for services provided.....but there is this other thing called common sense, and my common sense tells me that charging for your demonstrated interest in the company is too much. Any how it seems to me that a well managed company will budget the cost it takes to hire its employees and use its revenues accordingly to sustain a free application policy...

ohhh that is right that might mean the ceo's can get that much of raise next year.......(but that is a separate discussion)

By the way universities, that is an different story, although some people here have mentioned that in some countries this doesn't happen (demonstrating that through good management it can be done), you could argue that they are not out to make money thus they need the help....

cheers..



particles and waves are the same thing, but who knows what that thing is...
User currently offlineKubus From Poland, joined Dec 2005, 183 posts, RR: 2
Reply 24, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 6 days 14 hours ago) and read 4738 times:

Sorry but if I had to pay just to apply for a job, I wouldn't want to work there in a first place. It just tells me that the company is too cheap, and apparently doesn't see that an employee is an investment.

25 HPAEAA : Just to point out... while I agree by and large with your statement and it's a little off track, but here in the US we have University of Phoenix Onl
26 ANstar : There a loads of wannabees in the airline industry and this just helps weed out the ones that are not passionate about it. $15 well spent
27 Eoinnz : Anyone can appear one way during an interview process and different when they get the job and start working - no interview process can fully reveal t
28 VHVXB : Not to mention you are eligible for tax deduction once you are employed by JQ
29 Post contains images Skidmarks : If you are out of work and looking for a job then having to pay for applications could be crippling. You dont just apply for one job, you spread your
30 57AZ : Welcome to the real world. $15.00 isn't worth complaining about when you see what other companies require just to get an interview. Here in the state
31 Gemuser : A good description of 80-85% of ALL companies doing business in Australia! Gemuser
32 PER744 : I personally wouldn't have a problem with it. Whilst I've not applied for any airline jobs, I know Air Services Australia charge a fee if you make it
33 ADXMatt : back in the late 1980's early 1990's when getting a job with an airline paid well and was a career TWA used to charge for your flight attendant traini
34 HKGKaiTak : I'm pretty meh about it myself - unfortunately that's the case of wanting a job in a profession that has more demand than supply. $15 is really nothi
35 HZ747300 : $15 to apply is not unreasonable and it serves several purposes. If you think JQ is laughing all the way to the bank with $15 per applicant, you are w
36 Hugosel : JQ, I am sure, will charge this fee as long as the marginal benefit (more efficient screening yielding lower cost per hire, + fee revenue) outweighs t
37 Simes : It's a stupid idea, yes it costs to hire and train people, however the business is able to claim these costs to minimise their tax exposure, basically
38 Sparklehorse12 : I actually go to University part-time so that blows your assertion out of the water. Education is not a commodity so sadly I think you might be misgu
39 Itsnotfinals : You're about 6 years late with that comment. With websites like Dice.com and others, no self-respecting tech company pays a 20 or 30K or higher fee a
40 Post contains images Gemuser : I teach at the tertiary level, believe me "officially" it IS a commodity! Under the GATTS (The general Agreement on Trade & Tariffs in Services) it i
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