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Msnbc Reporting On 787 Delays  
User currently offlineDAL1044 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 14202 times:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/20002136/

"Boeing postponed the first flight of its new 787 Dreamliner, pushing the test to the end of September from the end of August, and has boosted research-and-development funds to ensure the fuel-efficient jetliner will overcome last-minute snarls and still enter service on time. "

46 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14119 times:

Very interesting.... Delayed out of the starting gate....

Wonder how this will play out in the long run?


-JD


User currently offlineCruiser From Canada, joined Apr 2005, 1001 posts, RR: 7
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14102 times:

This was a result of the 787 update last week by Boeing execs. They are still confident that it will EIS on time.

I was looking for the thread, but it seems to be MIA. Perhaps it got deleted...

James



Leahy on Per Seat Costs: "Have you seen the B-2 fly-by at almost US$1bn a copy? It has only 2 seats!"
User currently offlineThebry From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 375 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 14021 times:
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Just an update on what has been expected (and hinted at by Boeing all along). Boeing have always maintained that the Dreamliner will not fly until they're confident it's ready to do so. They've been saying they're "targeting" late August or early September for first flight, but that the timeframe wasn't set in stone.

As long as they remain confident it will EIS by May 2008, the program isn't "late".


User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 10 hours ago) and read 13774 times:

Quoting DAL1044 (Thread starter):
"Boeing postponed the first flight of its new 787 Dreamliner, pushing the test to the end of September from the end of August

September is within the original window, so it hasn't been postponed.


User currently offlineAA737-823 From United States of America, joined Mar 2000, 5913 posts, RR: 11
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13453 times:

Quoting Thebry (Reply 3):
Just an update on what has been expected (and hinted at by Boeing all along).



Quoting Khobar (Reply 4):
September is within the original window, so it hasn't been postponed.

I disagree. We all know how big a Boeing fan I am (just check out how badly my fair statements on the 777-2LR versus A345 got shot down in the 'no long range routes for -2LR thread). But you guys are drinking the Boeing koolaid, methinks. Boeing has said late August EARLY September for the longest time, so to say that a delay is not a delay is... wishful thinking.
Fear not, Boeing will be okay, and since we haven't heard anything about wiring not coming together, or "Oops, this plane is one metre longer than the French software thinks it is," I don't look for this to be a big deal.

We knew something was up when they announced last week that all flight test aircraft would be sold as revenue units, rather than remain test aircraft.


User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13434 times:

First flight is about 2 weeks later than the window. But this is not news. Why does it deserve a new thread? Because MSNBC is late in reporting it? There has been plenty of discussion on this over the past few weeks.


Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineBoogyJay From France, joined May 2005, 490 posts, RR: 4
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13364 times:

Quoting Cruiser (Reply 2):
This was a result of the 787 update last week by Boeing execs. They are still confident that it will EIS on time.

I was looking for the thread, but it seems to be MIA. Perhaps it got deleted...

I too wonder why the other thread got deleted...  Confused

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
We all know how big a Boeing fan I am (just check out how badly my fair statements on the 777-2LR versus A345 got shot down in the 'no long range routes for -2LR thread)

Yes you are and I agree, you got shot down I witnessed that  Big grin

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
But you guys are drinking the Boeing koolaid, methinks.

Me thinks too. But hey this is Boeing we're talking about, it has to be called something else than 'delay'.

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Fear not, Boeing will be okay,

 checkmark  Even if they screw the thing up, they cannot do worse than Airbus. For once, it looks like they acknowledge the delay and immediately put money on the table. This is far far more clever than what Airbus did : deny the problem up to the explosion of the problem.
They will spend more money than planned but it's better to use it now than bleed the $$$ later to the customers (ala Airbus).


User currently offlineWolbo From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 493 posts, RR: 1
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 7 hours ago) and read 13287 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 6):
First flight is about 2 weeks later than the window. But this is not news. Why does it deserve a new thread? Because MSNBC is late in reporting it? There has been plenty of discussion on this over the past few weeks.

Well, it seems that threads with Boeing problems sometimes disappear into the night as did the previous one on this topic, so maybe if you cross your fingers this one will share the same fate.  Wink

Mind you if all that happens with the B787 program is a two or three week delay on a intermediairy project milestone they will have done a fantastic job.


User currently offlineComeAndGo From United States of America, joined Mar 2005, 1041 posts, RR: 0
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13110 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
"Oops, this plane is one metre longer than the French software thinks it is,"

Funny, funny.

by the way it's the same french software that Boeing uses.


User currently offline777fan From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 2520 posts, RR: 2
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 13088 times:

Quoting BoogyJay (Reply 7):
They will spend more money than planned but it's better to use it now than bleed the $$$ later to the customers (ala Airbus).

Something tells me that with the influx of gajillions of greenbacks in order deposits, Boeing will be able to pocket the extra R&D.

Anyone have any info on the status of the "oven" in Japan? Do they have it up and running to the point where fuselage sections are cranking out on a regular basis?


777fan



DC-8 61/63/71 DC-9-30/50 MD-80/82/83 DC-10-10/30 MD-11 717 721/2 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 741/2/4 752 762/3 777 A306/319/20/33 AT
User currently offlineIlikeflight From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 366 posts, RR: 1
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 12734 times:

Boeing has announced this awhile ago but they still say it will enter service in May '08


Think Different
User currently offlineDAL1044 From United States of America, joined Jan 2006, 110 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12519 times:

A couple weeks or even a couple months delay to me isn't much considering this is a brand new state of the art Airliner. It is at the forefront of technology. I simply created this thread because it is "Front Page News" where those who are not aviation fans are now reading more about the 787.

User currently offlinePygmalion From United States of America, joined Jun 2006, 968 posts, RR: 38
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12375 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
We knew something was up when they announced last week that all flight test aircraft would be sold as revenue units, rather than remain test aircraft

um... Boeing ALWAYS sells the test units. This should not be a surprise. Airbus does the same thing. The first delivery for the A380 is MSN003 for SQ... a prior flight test unit.

Why would any company keep 500 million dollars worth of airplanes when they could sell them?


User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 5 hours ago) and read 12291 times:

Quoting 777fan (Reply 10):
Anyone have any info on the status of the "oven" in Japan? Do they have it up and running to the point where fuselage sections are cranking out on a regular basis?

Japan is already ramping up. The big snag for Boeing was in Italy but that has been resolved by all accounts. But is ramping a little slower. One of the Japanese companies is actually expanding its facility to meet the demand. The LCF has been over here pretty regularly picking up wings and sections.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineKhobar From United States of America, joined Mar 2006, 2379 posts, RR: 4
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11908 times:

Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Boeing has said late August EARLY September for the longest time, so to say that a delay is not a delay is... wishful thinking.

You say we are drinking koolaid and then acknowledge September has been included for the longest time. Therefore, by your own admission the article is WRONG to say the first flight has been postponed from August to September.


User currently offlineWingedMigrator From United States of America, joined Oct 2005, 2243 posts, RR: 56
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11822 times:

Quoting Centrair (Reply 14):
The big snag for Boeing was in Italy but that has been resolved by all accounts.

An LCF flew to Italy and back to PAE via JFK from 22 July - 25 July. Evergreen flights 5106, 5162, 5127 and 5161. Presumably the horizontal stab for #2.


User currently offlineRB211TriStar From United States of America, joined May 2007, 185 posts, RR: 0
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11801 times:

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 8):
Mind you if all that happens with the B787 program is a two or three week delay on a intermediairy project milestone they will have done a fantastic job



Quoting DAL1044 (Reply 12):
A couple weeks or even a couple months delay to me isn't much considering this is a brand new state of the art Airliner. It is at the forefront of technology. I simply created this thread because it is "Front Page News" where those who are not aviation fans are now reading more about the 787.

100% correct. It drives me up a wall when so many people on these forums make such a big deal about schedule slips. People like myself who work in this industry know exactly how success oriented a lot of these schedules are and how many thousands of dependencies there are in meeting milestones.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 9):
Funny, funny.

by the way it's the same french software that Boeing uses

Beat me to it!

Quoting 777fan (Reply 10):
Something tells me that with the influx of gajillions of greenbacks in order deposits, Boeing will be able to pocket the extra R&D.

While the "gajillions" of dollars are helping Boeing's cash flow, R&D money comes right off the bottom line of the company... and with all that unplanned NRE/IRAD going on before full rate production, its still going to take away from their earnings (albeit, probably not much based on the amount). Hopefully that comes out of their MR.

Either way, with the high demand for the 787, I would assume Boeing is seeing some pretty nice margin on some of these orders... which Wall Street likes a lot.
 Smile


User currently offlineTsaord From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 4 hours ago) and read 11691 times:

OK so it won't take off right away and they now plan it just a couple of weeks later. Big deal. International attention is just waiting for a MAJOR flaw/delay in Boeings 787 program. If the EIS changes then maybe someone will have a cause.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21562 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 3 hours ago) and read 11127 times:

Quoting Wolbo (Reply 8):
Mind you if all that happens with the B787 program is a two or three week delay on a intermediairy project milestone they will have done a fantastic job

Internally, it's probably more like a month. 2 weeks past the end of the window, but the target date was likely the middle of the window.

That's why I think they will be 2 weeks late in delivery, minimum.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offline707lvr From United States of America, joined Jun 2004, 585 posts, RR: 2
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 2 hours ago) and read 10553 times:

As long as Boeing doesn't have one of the usual billion-dollar flubs in the fourth quarter which wipes out the annual profit, I don't care if they spend fairly lavishly on the 787 to make it right the first time.

User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3313 posts, RR: 40
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 18 hours ago) and read 8139 times:

Quoting Khobar (Reply 15):
You say we are drinking koolaid and then acknowledge September has been included for the longest time. Therefore, by your own admission the article is WRONG to say the first flight has been postponed from August to September.

There's a bit of difference between early September and late September. Boeing's aims were to have the 787 in the air late August or early September. They are now saying it may be late September. To me that is a small delay, and like it or not, it's a delay none the less.

As many have mentioned, this is old news. Many have expected the odd small delay considering what Boeing is taking on. The fact that they are so close to their original timetable is a great testament to Boeing.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineAminobwana From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7579 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 19):
Internally, it's probably more like a month. 2 weeks past the end of the window, but the target date was likely the middle of the window.

That's why I think they will be 2 weeks late in delivery, minimum

I am surprised that this is discussed as if the time parameters and tombstones of such an task over a
near 4 years period were a precision game. Even if the delay of EIS reaches 1 month, this would be only
about 2% time-wise.

By the way: is the first flight delay a consequence of a accumulation of small causes, or is there a main
issue ???

aminobwana


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 17 hours ago) and read 7448 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
Very interesting.... Delayed out of the starting gate....



Quoting AA737-823 (Reply 5):
Boeing has said late August EARLY September for the longest time, so to say that a delay is not a delay is... wishful thinking.



Quoting Legoguy (Reply 21):
Boeing's aims were to have the 787 in the air late August or early September. They are now saying it may be late September. To me that is a small delay, and like it or not, it's a delay none the less.

It is a delay, in the sense that something is happening later than they expected it to. However, it's a delay that doesn't mean anything without other information. The day of first flight is just a day that has to happen between now and delivery. It isn't a hard milestone, it isn't contractually committed to anything, and it has relatively little bearing on the date that anything else happens in the program.

The only real dates that matter are certification and delivery and Boeing hasn't moved an inch on either of those.

Quoting ComeAndGo (Reply 9):
by the way it's the same french software that Boeing uses.

Not really...the 787 is entirely on CATIA V5. The A380 was a mix of V4 and V5. The two versions are very different.

Tom.


User currently offline787EWR From United States of America, joined Apr 2007, 204 posts, RR: 0
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 15 hours ago) and read 6058 times:

Quoting Thebry (Reply 3):
As long as they remain confident it will EIS by May 2008, the program isn't "late".

Agreed. Boeing is better off announcing a delay in the first flight and getting it right. This plane is going to be under so much scrutiny and I have to be believe that the competition from Europe is sitting waiting to exploit any issue. Now if Boeing had to delay it by two years........

Quoting Centrair (Reply 14):
Japan is already ramping up. The big snag for Boeing was in Italy but that has been resolved by all accounts. But is ramping a little slower. One of the Japanese companies is actually expanding its facility to meet the demand. The LCF has been over here pretty regularly picking up wings and sections.

While I can appreciate the ingenuity of Boeing to farm this work out to other countries, I wonder if this international outsourcing will bite them in the stabilizer. Let's say Italy has some type of strike and that line shuts down. The whole project will be shot to hell based upon one countries issues. I assume Boeing and their team have some form of contingency, but I would really question if they are running a heavy risk.


25 Post contains images Khobar : Oh, I understand what you're saying, but my point is that the article that started this thread is wrong. The other day there was a thread proclaiming
26 WYG737LVR : Better a delay of a few months than one of a few years. I still can't believe that the A380 has still not been delviered, what's the hangup? The plane
27 Tdscanuck : Completely true, but Boeing runs the same risk with their own unions every 3 years and that paralyzes *all* their production lines if they go on stri
28 Aminobwana : Even if you are right that by outsourcing oversea problems of such countries can become thei own, this must be seen between other within the followin
29 Ikramerica : it has to be precision to fly at all. and they are now outside their window, so the plane will be delayed unless there is some plan in place to speed
30 Chuchoteur : Incorrect MSN0003 is straight off the line, never was instrumented or participated in the Flight Test Program. MSN0002 will be the first "refurbished
31 Danny : They said "remains possible" which doesn't sound that confident.
32 AndesSMF : Boeing has sworn by CATIA since the 777. I doubt they would change the program. A month delay is still 'normal' in a new aircraft introduction.
33 AirTran717 : That's kind of my thinking on this... Why do people have to make more out of something than there really is? Someone please tell us when Boeing has q
34 AirTran717 : Very true. AirTran took delivery of #703 before 701 or 702. The first two were finishing up testing and touring while we were flying the first one. A
35 707lvr : Union leaders in countries which have major portions of this work have to know that in addition to the usual likely consquences of a strike/slowdown/a
36 SSTsomeday : Calm down, everybody. This thread is a great example of a rumormill based primarily on conjector and flights of fancy. What we do know is: - that the
37 Rverginia : I think many of you are taking this announcement WAY out there! We are not talking about a small consumer product like a toaster here, or an X-Box 360
38 Thebry : It'd be foolish to believe Boeing doesn't have a "disaster recovery" program at the ready. I'm betting deploying such a program would have been a req
39 CaptainX : Ignore everything Boeing says. They are saying what they have to say. Last year at this time they said the LCF would be certified by the end of 2006.
40 Zeke : Common sense to me says not to think that way until something is officially announced by Boeing.
41 Tdscanuck : Why would these tests consume two aircraft? They can all be done at the coupon and component level. Tom.
42 CaptainX : I'm pretty sure the FAA would not agree at all with that statement.
43 Tdscanuck : Why not? There is nothing that the FAA is asking about that is load dependant and you don't need a full wing to assess burn through on individual sec
44 Post contains images Antdenatale : This is going to be great, I think I will just sit here for the next few hours and watch the fireworks in the replies to this post
45 BoogyJay : I must say my experience with FAA has been quite worrying. If they want to put a halt to your program, they will simply do it. Recently, on a very big
46 Flighty : That must be frustrating at times, but ys. The FAA does have the power to ground aircraft. FAA is known around the world for being very safety consci
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