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AA Shrinking Not Growing?  
User currently offlineCactusOne From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 10 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 15 hours ago) and read 6938 times:

How come AA doesn't utilize their strong code-sharing agreement that they have with AS to fly these routes like NW does. The SEA market will never seem to have enough flights to Asia or Hawaii. I know AA bought the rights to fly SEA-NRT from CO and used to fly it with an MD11 then the 777-200. A 757-200 would work going to HNL or even OGG... seems logical, or even start new routes, to KIX, HKG, CAN, MNL, PVG, PEK, GUM, ICN, KHH, NGO or even Macau? It just seems AA is going to miss their opportunity to grow like CO & DL...Disgustingly they've pulled out of so many of the routes they used to have to have like SYD, LYS, MRS, HAM, MUC, MXP, ARN, TXL, BHX, GLA... others are beefing up, what's the deal? Lack of pilots or Fuel Cost? Certainly AA could do JFK-DOH, DXB, BLR, HYD... They used to be industry leaders and now they seem like they're permanently taking the wait-and-see approach to everything. Any word if AA is going to truly begin to grow again instead of keep the status pro-quo? They can't continue to keep all their eggs in one basket with Mexico, Central and South America & Caribbean, especially with low cost entrants like JetBlue, Spirit and AirTran... Can anyone shine some light on this subject? Speaking as an Executive Platnium member, it's becoming more and more frustrating to be purchasing an "AA" plane ticket, only to be told the service is being flown by someone else. CO, DL & even US are expanding with their 757's to smaller markets in Europe and using the big boys to Africa and renewed service to Asia n/s out of ATL.

72 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineTAN FLYR From United States of America, joined Aug 2000, 1919 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6886 times:

In a simple term..profitability.

If a route does not make a profit, or if the aircraft can fly another route with GREATER profit potential, then that is what they do.

I do believe that when the new terminal at JFK is complete, you will see AA fly some of the routes they used to from either ORD or JFK. They also have a long list of dormant TWA international authorities that they can fly when they determine a route has profit potential.

Two other items..they need continued profitability to order new aircraft soon (read 787) to do any considerable expansion. Also your comment about latin America...the Caribbean basin, Central America, northern and southern South America are all very profitable. That is why more flights to EZE for example. AA dominates Latin America..like PAN AM did 30-40 years ago.


User currently offlineFlyby519 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 1220 posts, RR: 0
Reply 2, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6877 times:

I dont think AA currently has enough aircraft to expand to the above destinations. Before they can order new a/c they need to resolve labor contract issues with the pilots/flight attendants


These postings or comments are not a company-sponsored source of communication.
User currently offlineOB1504 From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 3433 posts, RR: 6
Reply 3, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6846 times:

There are many reasons for AA's apparent "lack of growth":

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
The SEA market will never seem to have enough flights to Asia or Hawaii. I know AA bought the rights to fly SEA-NRT from CO and used to fly it with an MD11 then the 777-200. A 757-200 would work going to HNL or even OGG... seems logical, or even start new routes, to KIX, HKG, CAN, MNL, PVG, PEK, GUM, ICN, KHH, NGO or even Macau?

They're pretty much maxed out on aircraft for the time being (which is better than having a bunch of unused aircraft sitting in the desert, I suppose). The 737s that they are currently taking delivery of will be used to replace some of the older MD-80s until the 737's successor is launched.

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
Disgustingly they've pulled out of so many of the routes they used to have to have like SYD, LYS, MRS, HAM, MUC, MXP, ARN, TXL, BHX, GLA... others are beefing up, what's the deal? Lack of pilots or Fuel Cost?

If they've pulled out of any routes, it's either because they weren't performing well, or they could better utilize the assets elsewhere: on the routes they're "beefing up". Lack of pilots could be a contributing factor, since they're recalling more and more each year.

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
They used to be industry leaders and now they seem like they're permanently taking the wait-and-see approach to everything.

The wait-and-see approach has helped them. It may not be as effective as it once was, but to this day, they're the only American "legacy" carrier that has never had to declare bankruptcy.

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
They can't continue to keep all their eggs in one basket with Mexico, Central and South America & Caribbean, especially with low cost entrants like JetBlue, Spirit and AirTran...

IMHO, NK is really the only carrier capable of making a serious dent in AA's Latin American network. They've embarked on a massive expansion out of FLL, only 20 miles away from AA's fortress hub at MIA, and they're pushing the Airbus A319 to its limits. Even then, NK is a completely different animal, being a ULCC. NK isn't as interested as AA is in offering First or Business class or in codesharing, which is why AA should be capable of holding its own.

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
Speaking as an Executive Platnium member, it's becoming more and more frustrating to be purchasing an "AA" plane ticket, only to be told the service is being flown by someone else.

Most of AA's oneworld partners (AY, CX, LA, etc) have service levels that are leaps and bounds ahead of AA's. You're getting this service while still earning AAdvantage miles, so you win and AA wins by giving its frequent fliers more routes and destinations.

[Edited 2007-07-30 01:13:55]

User currently offlineSevenair From United Kingdom, joined Feb 2001, 1728 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 14 hours ago) and read 6826 times:

They're a business. And business is not just about expanding. It's about making more money out of what you already have. If you need to trim around the edges, then so be it. I must commend AA - they have not been in Chapter 11. They are a responsible business, who do not squander the tax payers money unlike some of the bankrupts airlines. So kudos, as they say over there.

User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 5, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6642 times:

This same topic was discussed last week. Two points of speculation;

1) AA is waiting until the TWA flight attendants roll off the recall list to expand (July 2008)

2) AA is holding back until pilot negotiations are in full force, and using the allure of ordering 787s and future 737RS as a carrot to secure a decent contract (we need the money to expand which brings the pilot more money, etc).



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineCentrair From Japan, joined Jan 2005, 3598 posts, RR: 20
Reply 6, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 12 hours ago) and read 6583 times:

AA has entered and pulled out of markets before they even matured. ORD-NGO was operated for I think 4 months with good loads in C and Y plus cargo but they pulled out in favor of using the plane to India I believe. At NGO they had access to JL's plentiful domestic routes and other oneworld partners. It lined up good enough to connect ORD-NGO-HKG, ORD-NGO-TPE (CX), ORD-NGO-PUS (JL) and to about 12 destinations in Japan. It did also have the ability to connect to Qantas's Cairns flight but why would anyone fly ORD-NGO-OZ?

The problem for AA is aircraft, staying in the black and getting pilots to agree to fly just a little longer. It seems that AA wants to build up DFW more to Europe and Asia but can't due to the flying rules that the pilots currently work on. This is why AA tacked on ORD for their application for DFW-ORD-PVG (or was it PEK) last year. The extra 1.5 hours or so put the pilots into working more than their contract allows.

I hope they expand and come back to NGO. I don't fly them but it is nice to have options.



Yes...I am not a KIX fan. Let's Japanese Aviation!
User currently offlineNA747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 7, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6570 times:

Read the previous threads AA Won't Expand? (which is now locked) and AA Won't Expand-Part Two which were posted last week.
Many interesting points mentioned there.
As for your suggestion that AA could serve DOH/DXB, etc. and excercising unused TWA routes, it is true. They could. But AA doesn' t really want an aircraft anywhere in the Middle East with the word "American" splattered on the side of the plane for obvious reasons. However, if there is a place I think AA could fly with out having its security compromised or operating very safely it would be Tel Aviv. TLV is one the safest airports considering it is located in a volatile area.
Dubai is another spot where there is money to be made. Out of JFK? Well, maybe (Emirates already has 2 nonstops and a 1-stop service on the route). Chicago-Dubai could be a very good option. India? Absolutely (besides the current Delhi service already operated).

Other factors, as stated above by Tan FLYR is that if they can find a route that will make MORE money with what they have, they will make that move. That said, because of aircraft availibilty restraints, they are missing out on *many* oportunities still left out there as mentioned in the previous threads.

AA is also waiting to see what happens/what the outcome is with their union contracts coming up for renewal next year. My prediction is that it will get ugly. Also, the ex-TWA Flt. Attdts. issue may also be playing a role in the decision to remain idle.

Pilot shortage? Possibly...they are recalling some.

My hope is that, at the least, AA is aware of what is going on around them and make a move as soon as it is feasibly possible. I don't wish to see AA licking its own wounds over its "lack of growth" later on. They have been sitting idle for a while now.


User currently offlineLaxintl From United States of America, joined May 2000, 26020 posts, RR: 50
Reply 8, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6548 times:

Same exact topic was discussed last week.
AA Wont Expand? (by NA747 Jul 23 2007 in Civil Aviation)



From the desert to the sea, to all of Southern California
User currently offlineWorldTraveler From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 9, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6522 times:

Quoting TAN FLYR (Reply 1):
They also have a long list of dormant TWA international authorities that they can fly when they determine a route has profit potential.

Dormant authorities are no longer AA's for the taking if someone else has stepped in and begun to operate the route. The US DOT allows routes to remain dormant for a very short period of time before they consider a carrier as no longer interested in serving the route. Also, treaties do change and many countries now have very liberal agreements that allow other carriers to begin service. Given all of DL's expansion in Africa, the Middle East, and Southern Europe - a few areas where TW used to be strong, there aren't a whole lot of markets where AA is going to walk in without having to fight against an incumbent.

Also, AA left a bad taste with the Israeli government because they failed to operate the JFK-TLV route they acquired. I'm betting they will be LY's codeshare partner after DL and LY go their separate ways later this year.

Quoting OB1504 (Reply 3):
IMHO, NK is really the only carrier capable of making a serious dent in AA's Latin American network.

There is no doubt that NK is hurting AA; you are seeing fare sales for the off-peak periods to Latin America that are lower than alot of domestic routes because AA is having to match NK levels. While AA has the loyalty from business passengers and also holds its own during peak periods and to deep South America, NK is becoming more than just an irritant to AA. It is a serious threat.


User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 10, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6508 times:

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
A 757-200 would work going to HNL or even OGG... seems logical, or even start new routes, to KIX, HKG, CAN, MNL, PVG, PEK, GUM, ICN, KHH, NGO or even Macau?

To start with American Airlines has never considered Seattle as a base. The West Coast base if you will for American Airlines is LAX. In the past we have seen attempt after attempt with the San Jose Focus City but nothing ever seemed to work between American Airlines and the San Jose market. American Airlines is in a very situation with its LAX operation and holds a number of key prizes including its de-facto strength as the number one airline from the Los Angeles market to New York, Miami, and Dallas. All are prime business markets. In addition American Airlines has a large amount of flights to Chicago which is rather commendable as well. American Airlines also has a prized association with Qantas, China Eastern, Japan Air Lines, Mexicana, Cathay Pacific, and LAN all of which have a very distinct market they serve from the Los Angeles market. As can be seen American Airlines does more than well on its LAX-LHR, and LAX-NRT services as well

Routes such as HNL, OGG are extremely low yielding and not a priority for American Airlines. Routes such as GUM, KHH, MFM, MNL, and CAN will probably never happen with American Airlines metal. I cannot see American Airlines re-entering the KIX, TPE, or NGO markets anytime soon. HKG as mentioned above is more than well served in American Airlines One World relationship with Cathay Pacific. ICN and PEK may happen later down the road. American Airlines is best leaving the PVG service from the ORD market from a profit standpoint, and as can be seen they have an intention to servce PEK-ORD within the next few years..

In closing unless American Airlines and Alaska Airlines merge and become one, dont look for American Airlines re-entering the Seattle to Asia market anytime soon..

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
It just seems AA is going to miss their opportunity to grow like CO & DL...Disgustingly they've pulled out of so many of the routes they used to have to have like SYD, LYS, MRS, HAM, MUC, MXP, ARN, TXL, BHX, GLA... others are beefing up, what's the deal?

Those routes are best served with code-share partners British Airways, and Qantas..

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
Certainly AA could do JFK-DOH, DXB, BLR, HYD... They used to be industry leaders and now they seem like they're permanently taking the wait-and-see approach to everything.

None of those routes are going to happen if at all from JFK. JFK is serving as an O/D market for American Airlines with very little connecting feed to support the TATL, Asian, and South American routes from that gateway. If you see DXB it will be via MIA, or DFW. I doubt that AA will ever add BLR, or HYD. You are more likely to see a flight added to BOM before anything else listed above..

Quoting CactusOne (Thread starter):
They can't continue to keep all their eggs in one basket with Mexico, Central and South
America & Caribbean, especially with low cost entrants like JetBlue, Spirit and AirTran...

Those eggs have been in the Latin/South American basket for years and are the shining gem in American Airlines route network. The name recognition of American Airlines in those markets is without a doubt the strongest. True that UA, DL, and CO serve those markets. Yet American Airlines is the leader. When it comes to the highest profit South American markets of SCL, GRU, and EZE American Airlines is the number one in town. They are not afraid of the likes of Jet Blue and Spirit in the low yielding Caribbean markets. Nor are they afraid of Spirit and their recent entry into the South American market. The will match ticket prices when and if need be. For the meantime American Airlines has the name and the leverage in the market.

-JD


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33185 posts, RR: 71
Reply 11, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 day 11 hours ago) and read 6475 times:

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
Given all of DL's expansion in Africa, the Middle East, and Southern Europe - a few areas where TW used to be strong, there aren't a whole lot of markets where AA is going to walk in without having to fight against an incumbent.

Fortunately, they are still young and developing markets. While I am disappointed that AA is not taking advantage of entering them now, they are young enough that AA can enter them 5 years down the road and still make a solid footing in the market.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):

Also, AA left a bad taste with the Israeli government because they failed to operate the JFK-TLV route they acquired. I'm betting they will be LY's codeshare partner after DL and LY go their separate ways later this year

The bad taste isn't because they left, it is because they still owe ex-TWA employees money (pension, IIRC). There are already rumblings that AA/LY will be announcing a code share deal to start with the summer 2008 timetable. They already are AAdvantage partners.

Quoting WorldTraveler (Reply 9):
While AA has the loyalty from business passengers and also holds its own during peak periods and to deep South America, NK is becoming more than just an irritant to AA. It is a serious threat.

The idea that Spirit is a "serious threat" is really stretching it, especially when many of their flights to Latin America are operating on red eye schedules that have absolutely no appeal to business travelers. They are definitely not to be taken lightly, and AA isn't taking it lightly, but until they expand more south and are offering premium services (or at least free baggage), they aren't a "serious threat". Delta needs to be more worried than AA. They have already gotten a great start in San Pedro Sula and Managua, thin markets that Delta has yet to make work, and where Spirit will steal market share more easily from un-established airlines in the market than from AA and CO.



a.
User currently offlineFXramper From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 7320 posts, RR: 85
Reply 12, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 21 hours ago) and read 5905 times:
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AA Wont Expand? (by NA747 Jul 23 2007 in Civil Aviation)

User currently offlineRlorenzo24 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 13, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5302 times:

AA has one of the worst management/labor relations in the industry. Both the pilots and flight attendants unions have or are getting ready to enter negotiations soon and as in the past it will get ugly, no doubt about it. They have several new gates at terminal 9 just sitting there. They can't expand when they don't have the crews to man the flights. They have too many planes parked in the dessert. They're firing flight attendants left and right all the while planes are going full with bare minimum crews. An airline can't expand when it has bad mgmt/labor relations. The recent pocketing of hundreds of millions of dollars by mgmt is a prime example of why they can't expand with this consistent "us vs them" attitude.

User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 20 hours ago) and read 5190 times:

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
AA has one of the worst management/labor relations in the industry.

They are in the company of United Airlines and Northwest Airlines when it comes to management/labor relations..

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
Both the pilots and flight attendants unions have or are getting ready to enter negotiations soon and as in the past it will get ugly, no doubt about it.

That makes their situation different from Northwest Airlines how?

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
They have several new gates at terminal 9 just sitting there. They can't expand when they don't have the crews to man the flights.

Regarding the Flight Attendant Crews they have to wait until the window for TWA recall rights have passed..

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
They're firing flight attendants left and right all the while planes are going full with bare minimum crews.

Regarding firing Flight Attendants, they are being fired with good cause. The Unions will not allow Flight Attendants to be fired without just cause.

Regarding Minimum Crews, have you flown on a United Airlines, US Airways, Northwest Airlines, or Delta Air Lines flight lately?

American Airlines is no different from any other US airline when it comes to onboard staffing, in fact I would argue that their Trans-Con and International flights have a higher ratio than most other US airlines in those markets..

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
An airline can't expand when it has bad mgmt/labor relations.

Then explain how United Airlines has expanded..

Quoting Rlorenzo24 (Reply 13):
The recent pocketing of hundreds of millions of dollars by mgmt is a prime example of why they can't expand with this consistent "us vs them" attitude.

This is different from United Airlines in what way?

Doing a bit of research would show that American Airlines has indeed expanded and in recent years has added new routes such as ORD-DEL, and ORD-PVG. In addition to that American Airlines has reinforced its Miami hub, and trimmed its O'Hare and DFW routes to a profitable margin. It smartly dropped San Jose and is focusing West Coast growth from its LAX operation. JFK has taken a hit, although at the same time it remains a profitable station with the immense wealth of the 3-class Trans Con, Narita, South America, and Heathrow flights. It would also be wise to point out that American Airlines did not use the crutch of bankruptcy to make it through the post 9-11 US aviation industry. Instead it made decisions that were hard, yet had to be done.

To fault American Airlines for remaining a profitable airline with an extremely solid audience and one of the strongest route networks in the World, all the while being the Worlds largest airline would be sadly misgiven..

-JD


User currently offlineAAJFKSJUBKLYN From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 912 posts, RR: 1
Reply 15, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 19 hours ago) and read 5112 times:

I second that AA is holding off and focusing on profit making rather then a glut of European/Foreign routes is because of their labor issues. They recently brought back a large group (apprx. 200) of flight attendents from TWA, the average age is 62...what do you think these flight att. will do?? Retire..without a doubt as many did nearly immediately. I think once you see these time constraints float away, certain things will move..orders for planes, more routes naturally. Dribs and drabs is the order of the day. Make the older planes new inside, give more back..rather then expand. Quite frankly it's a great business plan...but one that requires great patience for sure.

User currently offlineAJMIA From United States of America, joined Dec 2005, 734 posts, RR: 15
Reply 16, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 11 hours ago) and read 3888 times:

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 15):
They recently brought back a large group (apprx. 200) of flight attendents from TWA, the average age is 62...what do you think these flight att. will do?? Retire..without a doubt as many did nearly immediately.

How many of the 200 FAs took the recall?

How many have since retired?

AJMIA



Lady it's a jet... not a kite.
User currently offlineMoMan From United States of America, joined Aug 2004, 1054 posts, RR: 4
Reply 17, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3815 times:

Quoting AJMIA (Reply 16):
How many of the 200 FAs took the recall?

How many have since retired?

103 recalled, 82 accepted. of the 82, a vast majority expected to retire (last stats I heard)



AA Platinum Member - American Airlines Forever
User currently offlineRwSEA From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 3118 posts, RR: 2
Reply 18, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3813 times:

AA is very conservative in their growth strategy, always have been. Like NW and UA, they prefer to let DL/CO/US duke it out between the US and Europe. That might be a good strategy considering that DL/CO have a lock on JFK, UA and foreign carriers are strong from ORD, and DFW isn't the best European hub.

With respect to Asia, AA has a very poor track record. The only place they've had any real success is NRT. Other recently attempted destinations (NGO, KIX, TPE) have done very poorly. India is probably better suited to AA's network given their strengths. AA does have a decent case for ORD-PEK and I'm pretty sure they'll get it. That said, AA succeeds in China more because of the limited competition rather than name recognition or overall standing in the market.

With respect to considering other destinations in the USA (in your example, SEA-Asia), you're right that AA could be successful if they tried it (more successful than their failed DFW-KIX and ORD-NGO ventures, IMO). However, the legacy carriers these days seem extremely averse to trying any long-haul flights from places other than their hubs. I can understand that from an aircraft utilization and employee-base standpoint, but it's kind of short-sighted. Asian and European carriers are acquiring new aircraft and will beat the legacies in many of these markets.

And of course, AA needs to get their labor issues sorted out.


User currently onlineMAH4546 From Sweden, joined Jan 2001, 33185 posts, RR: 71
Reply 19, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3793 times:

Quoting RwSEA (Reply 18):
UA and foreign carriers are strong from ORD,

AA is stronger between O'Hare and Europe than UA. Always has been.



a.
User currently offlineCkfred From United States of America, joined Apr 2001, 5293 posts, RR: 1
Reply 20, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 9 hours ago) and read 3772 times:

There are two other issues that have caused AA to hold back on expansion. First, AA is operating at ORD under flight caps imposed by the FAA to reduce delays. If AA wants to add service to an existing route or start service to a new city from ORD, it has drop a flight elsewhere out of ORD .

This situation won't change until the 3rd east-west runway and the 2nd control tower become operational in '08, probably in the second half. My understanding is that the FAA will increase the arrival rate then, but AA probably will wind up with 50 or so additional arrival slots. Obviously that is nothing to sneeze at, but it still limits AA's growth potential at ORD. There probably won't be significant growth until the 4th east-west runway opens, and there is no timetable for that.

Second, AA is returning the ex-TW 757s to their lessors, as the leases expire. Those planes have P&W engines, as well as a host of other differences, and AA is trying to keep the number of fleet types and sub-types to a minimum. The downside is that it will keep the number of available seats very tight, but that allows AA to gain some pricing power and profitability.

The main problem for AA this instant is the contract with the pilots. They want an immediate 30% increase, plus a signing bonus and additional increases over the life of the contract. Considering that the prior leadership at the APA said that the 30% increase wasn't negotiable, that tells me that they want a strike. So, I doubt that AA is going to commit to any new planes beyond the current order for 737s until an agreement is in place. How long that takes will depend on how soon the federal mediator joins negotiations then declares an impasse.


User currently offlineNA747 From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 120 posts, RR: 1
Reply 21, posted (7 years 3 months 4 weeks 1 hour ago) and read 3634 times:

Quoting Ckfred (Reply 20):
There are two other issues that have caused AA to hold back on expansion

I forgot about the slot issue in ORD. For some reason I thought it only pertained to domestic routes...or didn't it used to be that way?
Good read, Ckfred.


User currently offlineToTheStars From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 264 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3573 times:

Quoting AAJFKSJUBKLYN (Reply 15):
They recently brought back a large group (apprx. 200) of flight attendents from twa, the average age is 62...what do you think these flight att. will do?? Retire..without a doubt as many did nearly immediately.


200 is hardly a large amount when there are still thousands awaiting recall. Those brought back where former TWA and where furloughed as AA flight attendants. And where do you get your facts as far as retirements? As far as I've heard no one has retired yet...they just started flying this month..They could have retired at anytime during the last 4 years on furlough and if they do retire it's thier choice, they earned it. Maybe they are just dedicated proffessionals who just want to fly again.

[Edited 2007-07-31 15:43:49]


TWA-Airline To the Stars
User currently offlineBOAC911 From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 454 posts, RR: 0
Reply 23, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3560 times:
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shrinking? good..their service sucks..

User currently offlineNYCAAer From United States of America, joined Jul 2004, 693 posts, RR: 3
Reply 24, posted (7 years 3 months 3 weeks 6 days 23 hours ago) and read 3523 times:

I think one of AA's biggest problems with new routes is that they don't always give them a chance to develop if they don't make a ton of cash right away. I think we served Stuttgart, Germany for 4 months back in 1989-1990. Crazy.

And now I've been hearing in the company rumor mill that management may reneg on its decision not to use 757s on thin routes to Europe out of JFK once the new terminal is completed. We're supposedly going to see a plethora of new destinations from JFK. I'll believe it when I'm actually on the plane en route.

I've also been hearing that ORD-DEL is now suffering due to fuel costs, and may be discontinued. They'd be crazy to give it up- wasn't the US-India Open Skies amended to exclude DEL and BOM for future expansion? Couldn't they hold off and fly it with a 777 until they got a 787-9 a few years later, and give it a chance?


25 MAH4546 : ORD-DEL is a strong performer and isn't going anywhere.
26 Dallasnewark : Hey Mark, I heard that it's not doing too well either, they're losing money on ORD-DEL-ORD.
27 FLYGUY767 : This rumor has becoming more and more loud over recent months. American Airlines is looking at a number of routes from JFK both to Europe and elsewhe
28 NYCAAer : That's what I thought, too, but a colleague of mine just came back from Purser training at Master Base in DFW and they were told ORD-DEL may get the
29 Aanyc : AA managers not knowing what they are talking about surprises you? European expansion rumors have been spinning around for years and we have yet to s
30 NYCAAer : Call me a skeptic, but I give that route 6 months, in typical AA fashion. I think it's just to compete with Eos and maxjet akin to the discontinued J
31 FLYGUY767 : From what I have heard there are a few options being looked at: #1 ORD-DEL would instead operate as DFW-ORD-DEL. In essence similar to the way that D
32 Ckfred : Back when ORD had slots that could be bought and sold, international carriers could circumvent the cap by applying for new service to ORD, IIRC. Now,
33 Humberside : Jet Airways have started, or will shortly start Mumbai-BRU-EWR. Delhi will follow latter. Plus AA's partner SN Brussels is codesharing on these fligh
34 MAH4546 : About two years ago there was a plan to begin one or two daily Brussels-India flights that would be feed by the JFK and ORD flights, as well as new M
35 ElmoTheHobo : American's relationship with SN hasn't gone anywhere the past two years. American ought to jump in start cooperating with Jet Airways, if only for th
36 MAH4546 : AA's Indian codeshare partner is Sahara. Jet has partnered with United. Off topic, but I really would like to see AA/SN's relationship become stronge
37 ElmoTheHobo : Did Jet not try to aquire Air Sahara? Agreed, both carriers need each other. SN is the last unaligned national carrier in Europe, and American (and O
38 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ...while load factors certainly doesn't lead to profitability, load factors have increased this year from 2006, so that's a good sign.... Whenever I'
39 Fleet Service : JFK sits in the backyard, literally of one of the if not the largest Indian expatriate communities in the US.
40 SLVRBLT : And, if they do, it will be an immediate entrance into bankruptcy. As an employee, a big part of me woud really be sad to see that - but another part
41 Boeing743 : I also wonder why STL not growing on AA. I heard that STL is well profitablity than ORD and DFW. But STL not even expand the routes and many of region
42 Aanyc : Why is it that the unions are always to blame. All unions on the property attempted to work with the management of AA. Remember all those pay and ben
43 SLVRBLT : You are, of course entitled to your point of view. Mine is that unions need to join the 21st century, read about global economies and stop using the
44 Aanyc : I guess some people are still drinking the kool-aid. Upper management does have every right to earn more money than we do, that is not the issue. The
45 SLVRBLT : Again, you are entitled to your point of view, and, I guess, your particular flavor of kool-aid Yes, but we're not talking about them, we're talking
46 Aanyc : I I guess you are right, AA's problems are a direct result of it's rank and file employees and it's unions. I guess that is why we have not expanded
47 Rlorenzo24 : Spoken like a true republican. As far as "we're" concerned unions are not going anywhere soon. May they remain at their posts forever and ever. Poor
48 FLYGUY767 : Somehow this thread has strayed away from the topic and turned into an American Airlines employees bashing management thread.. -JD
49 Aanyc : Maybe a little but not really. AA is not growing or at least growing in the right direction due to decisions by managment. AA can't grow without prop
50 DCA-ROCguy : Sounds like the pots and kettles (take your pick for which one represents management, and which one unions) at AA are both pretty black. An essential
51 FLYGUY767 : AANYC, I fully understand where you are coming from. Your frustration can be felt as well. I was in my past a Flight Attendant with American Airlines
52 FLYGUY767 : American Airlines is focused on money making routes. Hence you are seeing stations that do not offer a decent return either dropped or drawn down suc
53 MAH4546 : I wouldn't hold my breathe. It's already too late to properly market and sell tickets on that flight in time for peak winter travel.
54 FLYGUY767 : Did you hear something negative about the route? I heard that if it was moving forward.. I also heard that ORD-GRU was being looked at. -JD
55 Rlorenzo24 : ...gee, I wonder why?
56 FLYGUY767 : Again the thread is about American Airlines and people questioning whether they are shrinking or growing.. It was not and is not about Employee Relat
57 MAH4546 : Nothing negative, they just don't have the aircraft for it. ORD-GRU isn't possible right now, and won't be for a long time. There are no free USA-Bra
58 FLYGUY767 : In any case it is very disappointing. I thought for sure the route was still a go for the Winter season until I reconfirmed the shelving of the route
59 Fleet Service : Everyone seems to automatically assume the pilots are getting a thirty percent raise simply because they went public with that demand. A thirty percen
60 FLYGUY767 : What I heard was 12% at best, then incremental over the next few years to total 19% by the 5th year.. -JD
61 Ckfred : A friend of mine is an AA pilot. I haven't asked him how he voted in the election of officers, but he expressed some misgivings about the new officer
62 DeltaGuy : Maybe once Gerald Arpey quits taking nice bonuses for himself and his crew, maybe some money can be spent on worthy expendatures like new aircraft to
63 Post contains images Jacobin777 : ..maybe once you understand the context of his bonus you will stop posting such comments...
64 DeltaGuy : Okay, so enlighten me...what is the context of a milti-million dollar bonus? While many of your employees are out on furlough, or are operating under
65 Aanyc : I know that this thread is regarding AA not expanding. However, as an AA employee I do get tired of people supporting these ridiculous bonuses that u
66 Jacobin777 : ...as previously mentioned....AA unions (particularly the pilots union) had an opportunity to partake in the stock move, yet chose the more "conserva
67 LMP737 : One of them was no loss and he did not last long at UAL.
68 Post contains images FLYGUY767 : If the Flight Attendants are so unhappy at American Airlines why dont they just resign, and move on? The Unions, the same exact Unions that the Ameri
69 Fleet Service : Poorly performing employees? Are you serious? Try not enough employees,at LGA we're doing the same volume of work we were five years ago with a hundr
70 FLYGUY767 : Seems to me that at airlines like Jet Blue and Southwest Airlines the employees take a pro-active approach. I have seen B6 Flight Attendants use hand
71 Aanyc : Amen to that....This is what the guys at the top get paid for, coming up with these programs. They never address what needs to be fixed. Dirty/smelly
72 FLYGUY767 : Sorry to say that is the way it is in Corporate America since 9-11. American Airlines is and has been run less like an airline and more like a factor
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