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Longest 77W Route  
User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12364 times:

What is the longest 77W route? How many nm is the route?? and who is currently flying this route?? Are there any future plans of utilizing the 77W on say a 7500nm flight or longer??? Thanks


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
50 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFLYGUY767 From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 3 days ago) and read 12274 times:

Top 5 777W Routes

#1
YYZ-HKG ala AC
7810 Miles

#2
JFK-DXB ala EK
6849 Miles

#3
LAX-TPE ala SQ, BR
6799 Miles

#4
SIN-CDG ala SQ
6667 Miles

#5
SIN-MXP ala SQ
6409 Miles

-JD


User currently offlineCHRISBA777ER From UK - England, joined Mar 2001, 5964 posts, RR: 62
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12247 times:

Some long ones via LHR:

LHR - BKK = 5958 mi (BR)
LHR - NRT = 5974 mi (JL/NH)



What do you mean you dont have any bourbon? Do you know how far it is to Houston? What kind of airline is this???
User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12099 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
#1
YYZ-HKG ala AC
7810 Miles

I could be wrong, but I believe this route is being flown by the 77L, not the 77W. YVR-SYD could be a long one for the 77W, it flies the route early in the new year for a month or so, last I checked.

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5217 posts, RR: 5
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 23 hours ago) and read 12054 times:

Why not work in nm or km the two standards that are in general use.

When CX start using the type on the JFK-HKG route the ESAD Eastbound will be 7244nm and westbound, 7415nm.

The YYZ-HKG route will be about 7000 and 7166nm, respectively.

The SIN-CDG route is 5721 and 6257nm respectively.

Values except for YYZ-HKG Fair Use quotation from Aircraft Commerce magazine.

[Edited 2007-07-30 19:54:44]

[Edited 2007-07-30 19:57:24]

User currently offlineEA772LR From United States of America, joined Mar 2007, 2836 posts, RR: 10
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11917 times:

Thanks a.netters for the info. One question tho, while airline manufacturers claim a max range of x amount of miles, in this case Boeing claims 7880 nm for the 77W (which is close to 9,000 miles), what is the max range realistically and economically the 77W can fly while still making a profit??


We often judge others by their actions, but ourselves by our intentions.
User currently offlineYULYMX From Canada, joined May 2006, 977 posts, RR: 1
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11874 times:

YVR-SYD will be flown on a B773 before hte B772LR

User currently offlineBaron95 From United States of America, joined May 2006, 1335 posts, RR: 8
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 22 hours ago) and read 11778 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 4):
When CX start using the type on the JFK-HKG route the ESAD Eastbound will be 7244nm and westbound, 7415nm.

Can the 77W really fly these year round non-stop with a decent load? I didn't think the 77W had such long legs.



Killer Fleet: E190, 737-900ER, 777-300ER
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5217 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 11548 times:

Quoting Baron95 (Reply 7):
Can the 77W really fly these year round non-stop with a decent load? I didn't think the 77W had such long legs.

It is a affected by the passenger ready weight which can vary between 378K lb and 389K lb and the MTOW version that the carrier goes with.
Take a look at www.airliners.net/discussions/general_aviation/read.main/3392581/ and particularly reply 20 that helps cast some light on the subject.

From one of Widebodyphotogs tables it appears that the type assuming the highest MTOW available, can haul a max passenger load of 368 passengers , 7940 nm.


User currently offlineViscount724 From Switzerland, joined Oct 2006, 25989 posts, RR: 22
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11440 times:

Quoting SunriseValley (Reply 4):
Why not work in nm or km the two standards that are in general use.

The YYZ-HKG route will be about 7000.

YYZ-HKG is 6787 naut. mi (great circle). Actual routings may of course often be further due ATC, weather, winds etc. YVR-SYD nonstop is just slightly shorter, 6741 naut. mi., when AC begins nonstop service on that route later this year.

Quoting Cgagn (Reply 3):
Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
#1
YYZ-HKG AC

I could be wrong, but I believe this route is being flown by the 77L, not the 77W.

AC is still using their 2 A340-500s on the YYZ-HKG-YYZ route.


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11421 times:

Quoting FLYGUY767 (Reply 1):
Top 5 777W Routes

#1
YYZ-HKG ala AC
7810 Miles

#2
JFK-DXB ala EK
6849 Miles

#3
LAX-TPE ala SQ, BR
6799 Miles

#4
SIN-CDG ala SQ
6667 Miles

#5
SIN-MXP ala SQ
6409 Miles

-JD

I thought YYZ-HKG was still an A340-500 operated by AC...

But you omitted

IAD-NRT
6753 Miles (5868 nm GC 6022nm by airways)

JFK-NRT

6745 Miles (5861 nm GC 6015nm by airways)

Both operated by NH

On all segments available commercial payload is substantially above 45t all year round in both directions. To my recollection the only operator yet using the 775,000 lb MTOW option is AC. AC's ships also have the newest and best performing GE90-115BL2 engines as well. All other operators are using 769,000 lbs and some 759,600 lb MTOW. CX and AC are the only 777-300ER operators so far who have specified the GE90-115BL2's...


Another note, the 100th 777-300ER goes into service in September with AI, I think...

Quoting EA772LR (Reply 5):
Thanks a.netters for the info. One question tho, while airline manufacturers claim a max range of x amount of miles, in this case Boeing claims 7880 nm for the 77W (which is close to 9,000 miles), what is the max range realistically and economically the 77W can fly while still making a profit??

Actually the current public spec is 7,930, but in any case that figure from Boeing is on a lower spec weight aircraft... Please do not ask me why they do that. In service for international routes, a sustainable commercial payload for the 777-300ER is about 85,000 lbs (38.6t) depending on the route, cabin arrangement etc. For a 769Klb airplane this is an effective air distance of 6,700nm, and for a 775Klb airplane about 6,800nm. However it all really depends on cabin and hold yields.



widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11398 times:

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 10):
I thought YYZ-HKG was still an A340-500 operated by AC...

AC is waiting until they get their 2nd 77L, which should be shortly, then YYZ-HKG will move to the 77L and the 345s will move to the YYZ-PVG route for now. The 77W will never fly the YYZ-HKG route for AC.

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently onlineAcey From Canada, joined Jun 2007, 1051 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 11385 times:

Quoting Cgagn (Reply 11):
The 77W will never fly the YYZ-HKG route for AC.

It could at some point, due to an equipment change or something. They'll have more 77W's than 77L so if necessary I'm sure they'd sub it in.



If a man hasn't discovered something that he will die for, he isn't fit to live. -- Martin Luther King, Jr.
User currently offlineCgagn From Canada, joined Sep 2003, 345 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 11303 times:

Quoting Acey (Reply 12):
It could at some point, due to an equipment change or something. They'll have more 77W's than 77L so if necessary I'm sure they'd sub it in.

Good point. I meant it's not likely to be scheduled to fly YYZ-HKG, but it could end up flying the route a few times if need be.

C-GAGN



Widebodies flown on: A330-300,A340-300,A380-800,747-400,767-200ER,767-300ER,777-200A,777-200ER,777-200LR,777-300ER
User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11125 times:

Quoting Cgagn (Reply 11):
AC is waiting until they get their 2nd 77L, which should be shortly, then YYZ-HKG will move to the 77L and the 345s will move to the YYZ-PVG route for now. The 77W will never fly the YYZ-HKG route for AC.

C-GAGN

That was my understanding

-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineRayChuang From United States of America, joined Jun 2000, 8034 posts, RR: 5
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 14 hours ago) and read 11102 times:

I believe that the 777-300ER could easily fly the same long routes now flown by the 747-400. But very longer routes would be better-suited for the 777-200LR.

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10737 times:

Quoting Cgagn (Reply 11):
The 77W will never fly the YYZ-HKG route for AC.

Sorry to disappoint you, but see this:

1 AC 015 J9 C9 Y9 M9 U9 B9 H9 /YYZ 1 HKG 1010 1335+1E0/77W 15:25
V9 Q9 L9 A9 I0

( 05.Aug)


Never say never!  Smile


User currently offlineQF175 From Portugal, joined Mar 2007, 701 posts, RR: 2
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 11 hours ago) and read 10633 times:

It was reported that EK is looking at introducing a new daily nonstop DXB-BNE-DXB service with the 77W. Below are the distances in nautical miles and miles:

BNE-DXB
6467 nm or
7442 mi



Rgds


User currently offlineMax Q From United States of America, joined May 2001, 4779 posts, RR: 19
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 10 hours ago) and read 10152 times:

It's Nautical and statute miles for the sake of clarification.

Just saying 'miles' is meaningless !

As an earlier poster mentioned, the only worthwhile standard is Nautical miles.



The best contribution to safety is a competent Pilot.
User currently offlineHaan From South Africa, joined Aug 2004, 289 posts, RR: 1
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 8 hours ago) and read 9517 times:

Ek will start to operate the new B777-200LR on DXB-GRU as of 1st October 2007 and it will be more or less 7592 mi.
Then in December 2007 EK will start to operate to DXB-IAH aslo with the new B777-200LR and will be 8168 mi.


User currently offlineGEnxPower From United States of America, joined Apr 2005, 121 posts, RR: 0
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8277 times:

Quoting Max Q (Reply 18):
Just saying 'miles' is meaningless !

I disagree. Unless you say specifically say nm or nautical miles, just saying 'miles' imply your statute miles. I know this is an assumption, but it's usually a good assumption in this industry. It's just like saying I'm flying Mach 0.83, you don't really have to say it's airspeed and not ground speed. The assumption is often valid.


User currently offlineFLYACYYZ From Canada, joined Jan 2004, 1914 posts, RR: 11
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 4 hours ago) and read 8107 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 16):
Sorry to disappoint you, but see this:

1 AC 015 J9 C9 Y9 M9 U9 B9 H9 /YYZ 1 HKG 1010 1335+1E0/77W 15:25
V9 Q9 L9 A9 I0

( 05.Aug)


Never say never!

The 77L was planned to take over daily operations on August 4th. I would suspect delivery of the 2nd aircraft has been delayed, and thus the change.

As it stands....

Last A345 flight will be August 3rd.

First B77L flight will be August 4th.

Mix of 77W & 77L August 5th - 13th

Daily deployment of the 77L on August 14th.

(subject to change)

Didn't think the 77W had the range for YYZ-HKG. Any payload restrictions, or necessary tech-stop in YVR??



Above and Beyond
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5217 posts, RR: 5
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days 1 hour ago) and read 6986 times:

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 10):
a sustainable commercial payload for the 777-300ER is about 85,000 lbs (38.6t) depending on the route, cabin arrangement etc. For a 769Klb airplane this is an effective air distance of 6,700nm, and for a 775Klb airplane about 6,800nm

Plotting this data on the Load/Range chart for the 77W and assuming a middle of the range passenger ready weight of 383K lb. would suggest a payload of about 75K lb YYZ- HKG assuming a ESAD of about 7200nm and a little less, YVR-SYD assuming a ESAD of about 7300nm.
Full passenger load for AC would be in the range of 72K.lb based on their seating arrangement of 349.
see reply 4 for the source of the ESAD data.
Useful to note that Virgin-Australia will be operating their 77W's , westbound LAX-SYD , just beyond the upper end of the effective air distance provided by Widebodyphotog above.


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 2 days ago) and read 6564 times:

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
Mix of 77W & 77L August 5th - 13th

Interesting...

Quoting FLYACYYZ (Reply 21):
Didn't think the 77W had the range for YYZ-HKG. Any payload restrictions, or necessary tech-stop in YVR??

Range is there and there is enough excess payload to deal with most any weather/ETOPS planning contingency. At full passenger load there would only be payload for about 5-6t of cargo though, but at 349 seats there is a lot of revenue on board for such a long flight. The best ETOPS track distance for YYZ-HKG is 6,905nm and an effective air distance of about 7,200nm. I believe this would be the second longest route operated by a 777, CO's EWR-HKG being the longest albeit with more than 60 fewer seats...

However in the Fall/Winter season available payload on the 777-300ER may fall below what would be practical to sustain regular operations. In Spring and Summer the airplane should be able to reliably pull off the route without restricting passenger loads.



-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineSunriseValley From Canada, joined Jul 2004, 5217 posts, RR: 5
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 1 day 22 hours ago) and read 6424 times:

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 10):
In service for international routes, a sustainable commercial payload for the 777-300ER is about 85,000 lbs (38.6t) depending on the route, cabin arrangement etc. For a 769Klb airplane this is an effective air distance of 6,700nm, and for a 775Klb airplane about 6,800nm.

Do you have a similar "rule of thumb" for the 747-400?


25 Viscount724 : However, when "miles" are referred to in various other airline-related connotations they mean "statute miles", e.g. miles earned in frequent flyer pr
26 Widebodyphotog : Very hard to do for the 747 for real airplanes because there are something like 20 different engine/weight variants each with their own incremental c
27 SunriseValley : YVR-SYD might be better; they will operate it daily with the -300ER from about Dec. 15th. to Jan 26th. The schedule is showing a westbound flight tim
28 Acey : YYZ-HKG is actually a few dozen nautical miles longer as the crow flies, but winds on the westbound YVR-SYD would certainly be of more consequence th
29 Post contains images DEVILFISH : In 2009, PR will be flying the 7305 mi (Great Circle Mapper) MNL-LAX route using the 77W. But with all the boxes, the westbound return flight would be
30 Widebodyphotog : Actually that time of the year it will not be so bad regularly. The headwind component is small even if the prevailing wind velocity is relatively hi
31 Post contains images Ikramerica : And poor Dixon is now scrambling to justify QF ignoring the plane as "not suitable" for their operations. Other carriers are profiting from this plan
32 Sebring : Isn't CX planning to fly the 77W on YYZ-HKG after it gets enough fins? If so, they will have to hope that it is practical for regular operations beca
33 Widebodyphotog : I would think that based on their long haul seating arrangements that the 777-300ERs operated by CX would have substantially lower cabin density than
34 Post contains images Norcal773 : If you're gonna fly on one, SQ's is a good choice and check out the wing-flex on takeoff. AWESOME!
35 Sebring : AC's second 77L arrives next week, by the way. The fifth 77W was doing training yesterday and then went out last night full to LHR, and will be turned
36 Acey : It was supposed to arrive a minute ago as AC 851, but is showing late and will get in close to 3 local time. I'm here in YYC waiting to see it! I gue
37 Viscount724 : According to current schedules, CX stops in ANC in both directions on the HKG-YYZ-HKG route. Perhaps they skip the eastbound stop occasionally when l
38 Post contains links SunriseValley : From CX To Start 3rd Daily JFK / +1 Weekly PER (by YLWbased Jul 30 2007 in Civil Aviation) the seating will apparently be F6, C57,Y238
39 Jupiter2 : Being in SYD, I am first looking forward to the AC 777's and secondly the take off runs the 77W's especially will have. While we have a nearly 14000 f
40 Widebodyphotog : A 48 seat difference so about 10,000lbs of people and their stuff plus the difference in cabin fitting weight. A good buffer against poor conditions.
41 EA772LR : Maybe, but keep in mind the 77W has a much better thrust-to-weight ratio than the 744.
42 Widebodyphotog : Yes it does but due to the higher wing loading takeoff performance is about the same as the 747-400 up to about 32deg C. After that field length requ
43 Zkojh : lets see where NZ deploy there 77w on then the likes of AKL to JFK,YYZ ,ORD are on the radar. would go for a re-start of chc-lax but push it for a chc
44 Sebring : YYZ? Not nonstop they won't/can't. Can' even do AKL-YYZ with a 77L unless one goes for the optional tanks and even then it is a stretch.
45 SunriseValley : Are there load balance considerations on the 77W that might affect payload when the MTOW is close to max. ?
46 Post contains links SunriseValley : I have a question on the possible payloads that NZ can achieve with the 77W as compared to the 747-400 and I want to refer to Reply 57 by Widebodypho
47 Widebodyphotog : That really only applies to situations where there are both high payloads and high takeoff weights. High payload conditions really won't apply to the
48 Raggi : Has NZ ordered 77Ws? When? How many? raggi
49 SunriseValley : Lets put this in context.... look for " New Zealand Aviation Thread #8" and posting 135. This is from NZ insider, I believe that it is authorative. T
50 Post contains links SunriseValley : According to http://www.nzx.com/market/market_announcements/by_company?id=151681 NZ is to buy 4 -77W for delivery concurrent with 787 deliveries , and
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