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Why JAL Do Not Order 747-8I  
User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3613 posts, RR: 2
Posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6145 times:

By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters, So why they do not order 747-8I. With 747-8I JAL could still give there passenger 747 service, with the good things of a modern jet.

19 replies: All unread, jump to last
 
User currently offlineFlyTUITravel From United Kingdom, joined May 2007, 723 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 21 hours ago) and read 6101 times:

Maybe they are going the same way as NH and using the 77W?

User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30974 posts, RR: 86
Reply 2, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 6002 times:
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JL just may no longer need a 744 for the routes and payloads they fly, and the 77W is more efficient in such cases.

User currently offlineBritJap From Japan, joined Aug 2006, 280 posts, RR: 2
Reply 3, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5948 times:

In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions. Which is especially important for JAL which is still downsizing and restructuring. JAL president himself has mentioned that by 2010, implementing improvements in their 777, 787 and 737 operations they aim to achieve savings of in excess of £350m (GBP).
JAL are still focusing heavily on cost cutting and returning their business to a healthy situation. I dont think that they will place any VLA orders for a while yet. Maybe not until after the the aircraft in question have entered service for other airlines.


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 4, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5935 times:

JAL has no money and are facing a very serious financial crisis in the coming months. They have no money and their credit has been downgraded so they basically can not borrow money either. Don't expect much of anything in the way of orders from them soon. They will have a tough enough time keeping themselves out of default come September so new big airplanes are probably off the radar screen for a while at least.



-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineEgmcman From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2005, 898 posts, RR: 8
Reply 5, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 20 hours ago) and read 5902 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters, So why they do not order 747-8I. With 747-8I JAL could still give there passenger 747 service, with the good things of a modern jet.

The 777 can fly to JL routes and save money due it being more efficient and it's lower weight as this is operators at Japanese airports are are charged.


User currently offlineStitch From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 30974 posts, RR: 86
Reply 6, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 19 hours ago) and read 5747 times:
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Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 4):
JAL has no money and...will have a tough enough time keeping themselves out of default come September so new big airplanes are probably off the radar screen for a while at least.

Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?


User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 7, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5648 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters

All of the 774 ?? beginning 2010, ending when ??

The B767, B777 amd B787 ordered are for substitution of the 747 classic and the A300. they are
nor enough for the B774, which are not so old

As for the N787 payment, I understand the the financing is assured, can you confirm this ??

TKV


User currently offlineAirbuseric From Netherlands, joined Jan 2005, 4268 posts, RR: 51
Reply 8, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 18 hours ago) and read 5639 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Thread starter):
By 2010 JAL will retire all there 747 classic and turn there 744 into freighters,

Nope. Not all 744 will become freighters. Only 6 frames are planned to be converted, of which 3 are already flying as such. A couple of 742F's are being replaced by 763F's (first is already in service) to operate the Asian cargoservices.
A whole bunch of 744's will go to EG (full charter-company of JL) to replace their 743's, which are still in service.

Quoting BritJap (Reply 3):
In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions.

NRT-FCO, NRT-MXP, and about half of the NRT-AMS flights are still served by 744's.
Additionally some CDG flights are operated by 744 througout the year as well.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

On schedule, to downgrade some inner-Asian flights as soon as possible to this fuel-efficient aircraft, and save money there.

Most probably, some Japan-Europe flights will also see the B787-8 in the near future. Candidates for this type are:

NGO-CDG
NRT-AMS
NRT-SVO

This will free up some 772's which can be used elsewhere replacing the 744.



"The whole world steps aside for the man who knows where he is going"
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 9, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 17 hours ago) and read 5566 times:

If JL was financially healthy, a 748 order would be likely, but they aren't, and there is no turnaround in sight yet.
Their focus now is to get the 738 to replace the MD80s and the 773ER/788 to replace the 747-classics and older 767s.
Any 748i order would occur beyond 2009.

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

No, they need them to replace the 747-classics and older 767s.


User currently offlineWidebodyphotog From United States of America, joined Jun 1999, 917 posts, RR: 67
Reply 10, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5515 times:

Quoting Stitch (Reply 6):
Do you think they will take delivery of their 787's on schedule, or defer them?

To be honest it's a small question mark at this point. Their fuel hedges are running out with no cash to renew them and they are getting murdered on jet fuel prices operating 747's internationally and old generation airplanes on regional routes. Their medium term plan calls for keeping some 744's around through 2010 and even keeping A300-600's! JAL needs cash and or credit available to meet their commitments and both are dwindling at this point. JAL will however pull out all the stops to make sure they can complete the 787 integration

JAL has four times the number of employees as NH and getting rid of vast numbers of them will be much harder than anyone can forsee at this point. It's going to take a massive concerted effort to turn things around at JAL but they still have a "number one" mentality so brighter days may be still ahead.



-widebodyphotog



If you know what's really going on then you'll know what to do
User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 11, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 16 hours ago) and read 5460 times:

Quoting Widebodyphotog (Reply 10):
will however pull out all the stops to make sure they can complete the 787 integration

JAL has four times the number of employees as NH and getting rid of vast numbers of them will be much harder than anyone can forsee at this point. It's going to take a massive concerted effort to turn things around at JAL but they still have a "number one" mentality so brighter days may be still ahead.

 checkmark 

And let's not forget the nationalistic aspect, meaning tthat the goverment and the Keiratsu partners will not allow the aviation symbol of Japan to fail or continue to limp along !! Knowing how this works, they will get the needed funding, possibly beyond the financing or guarantees for the B787, possibly (but not probably) .even short term for some BB748i!

I agree that personnel reduction in Japan, given the paternalistic laboral relations, is a difficuly task, but at least easier now as some years ago!!

TKV


User currently offlineBALandorLivery From UK - England, joined Jan 2005, 360 posts, RR: 1
Reply 12, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 2 days 3 hours ago) and read 5165 times:

Think there was some talk of frequency rather that capacity....

User currently offlineGeorgeJetson From Bulgaria, joined Jun 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 13, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3271 times:

Quoting TKV (Reply 7):
All of the 774 ?? beginning 2010, ending when ??

The B767, B777 amd B787 ordered are for substitution of the 747 classic and the A300. they are
nor enough for the B774, which are not so old

What's a 774??? I didn’t know Boeing already came out with the 777-400. I guess it can’t possibly be that old if it just came out and I didn’t even know it existed. It’s so difficult to keep up with all these advances in technology nowadays. So will the 777-400 compete with the A350-1000?



Meet George Jetson
User currently offlineTKV From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 14, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3224 times:

Quoting GeorgeJetson (Reply 13):
What's a 774??? I didn’t know Boeing already came out with the 777-400. I guess it can’t possibly be that old if it just came out and I didn’t even know it existed. It’s so difficult to keep up with all these advances in technology nowadays. So will the 777-400 compete with the A350-1000?

I am sorry; it is B744 (B747-400) , not B774 !!

TKV


User currently offline747400sp From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 3613 posts, RR: 2
Reply 15, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Quoting BritJap (Reply 3):
In 2006 JAL changed from 747 to 777 on their European routes, and were able to achieve ten percent cost reductions. Which is especially important for JAL which is still downsizing and restructuring. JAL president himself has mentioned that by 2010, implementing improvements in their 777, 787 and 737 operations they aim to achieve savings of in excess of £350m (GBP).
JAL are still focusing heavily on cost cutting and returning their business to a healthy situation. I dont think that they will place any VLA orders for a while yet. Maybe not until after the the aircraft in question have entered service for other airlines.

Wow I did not know JAL was having money troubles, to bad. Well let's look on the brite side, at least passenger JAL 747 will be around till 2010.


User currently offlineGeorgeJetson From Bulgaria, joined Jun 2007, 169 posts, RR: 0
Reply 16, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 21 hours ago) and read 3120 times:

Quoting TKV (Reply 14):
I am sorry; it is B744 (B747-400) , not B774 !!

And now, I am so dissapointed that I could not find any photos of a super-duper-ultra-stretched Boeing 777-446ERX LOL! Or maybe they'll call it the 777-4 when it does come out, assuming Boeing uses their new model-naming convention as with the 747-8 and the various versions of their 787. If it does come out, they might even skip a few numbers and call it a 777-8 or 777-9. Does anybody know what happened to the 747-5, 747-6 and 747-7???

For many years, I have been fascinated (if not completely obsessed!) by all the different flavors a particular aircraft can have. The Boeing 737 had quite a few: 737-100, -200, -200 Advanced, -200C, -300, -400, -500, -600, -700, -700(ER), -800, -900, -900(ER) and I might have even missed a few others like the BBJ variations. I can't wait for the 737-1000X to come out!!! But unlike with the 747-8, Boeing did not skip numbers with the 737 models.



Meet George Jetson
User currently offlineCarpethead From Japan, joined Aug 2004, 2954 posts, RR: 3
Reply 17, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2822 times:

Quoting 747400sp (Reply 15):
Wow I did not know JAL was having money troubles, to bad. Well let's look on the brite side, at least passenger JAL 747 will be around till 2010.

Unless JL goes belly up, the 744 will be flying deep into the 2010s. Its the 747-classics that will be gone by 2010.


User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 18, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 1 day 6 hours ago) and read 2763 times:

JL are transitioning from JumboJets to 777s to 787s in order to raise RASM. It's a good strategy for them. I don't foresee JL placing any more orders for next few years.

User currently offlineUnited Airline From Hong Kong, joined Jan 2001, 9169 posts, RR: 15
Reply 19, posted (7 years 1 month 2 weeks 22 hours ago) and read 2608 times:

JAL will be fine. But why are they not doing very well?

JAL's B 747-400s will be around for a long time to come. They will not be replaced anytime soon.

When they are in a better shape I guess they will order the B 747-8


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