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AF/KLM To Place 1B Order For 70-100 Seaters  
User currently offlineLowecur From United States of America, joined Jan 2005, 585 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11455 times:

Interesting to see if Bombardier could pull a coup and beat ERJ out of this nice order. Did ERJ ever get that $2B order from Paramount?

http://www.forbes.com/business/feeds/afx/2007/08/02/afx3979841.html

71 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineFoxXray From France, joined May 2005, 398 posts, RR: 0
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11335 times:

Official announcement will be on August 5 !
Big chance to see an Embraer order...


User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11301 times:

I'm very curious into what it will turn out..

I'm guessing these will all be used by Air France, as KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape and they are not too happy about either Embraer or Bombardier designs..


User currently offlineCRJ900X From Canada, joined Dec 2006, 197 posts, RR: 0
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11206 times:

Hey all,

As much as I would like to see some KLM aircraft livery painted on the CRJ900 and CRJ1000, I think this is an order that has already been captured by Embraer. KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

Source: CH Aviation

http://www.ch-aviation.ch/news.php News Section for 29/07/2007

Cheers,

CRJ900X


User currently offlineCTRL_ALT_DEL From Ireland, joined Feb 2001, 71 posts, RR: 0
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days 1 hour ago) and read 11206 times:

Rekkof lurking somewhere?

User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11194 times:

Quoting Lowecur (Thread starter):
Interesting to see if Bombardier could pull a coup and beat ERJ out of this nice order. Did ERJ ever get that $2B order from Paramount?

To be honest, I think BBD has the edge, because they can offer props as well as jets, thus be able to offer a nice package deal. KLM previously stated that they would consider replacing the F70 with a turboprop, and given the speed of the Q400 it would be the perfect replacement of the F70 IMHO. And to add to that some CRJ1000's to replace the F100's and their set. I wonder if they are considering the ATR72 though...

OTOH, a KLM spokesman has denied that any such order is imminent.

http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?ID=21398 (Dutch only, sorry)



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11157 times:

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 2):
KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape and they are not too happy about either Embraer or Bombardier designs..

So that's why the dispatch reliability of the Fokker fleet is abysmal and KLM invited Embraer over to AMS to show the capabilities of the E190?
The Fokker fleet will have to be replaced, and I know word is this will not be done until "a proper" replacement is available, it would make a lot of sense if AF and KL jointly go for the E-jets.

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

That would be awesome news!


User currently offlinePHKLM From Northern Mariana Islands, joined Dec 2005, 1198 posts, RR: 2
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11121 times:

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1):
Official announcement will be on August 5 !
Big chance to see an Embraer order...

On a sunday? August 9th would be a logical choice, as the company presents its Q1 results for the bookyear 2007-2008.


User currently offlineKappel From Suriname, joined Jul 2005, 3533 posts, RR: 17
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11113 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
KLM Cityhopper is apparently taking delivery of three EMB-190's that were originally ordered by Regional (France).

Is it possible that this is temporary? Of course, a mix of E-jets and Q400's would be nice too.



L1011,733,734,73G,738,743,744,752,763,772,77W,DC855,DC863,DC930,DC950,MD11,MD88,306,319,320,321,343,346,ARJ85,CR7,E195
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11096 times:

Quoting CRJ900X (Reply 3):
I think this is an order that has already been captured by Embraer.

Agree 100%. A KLM team even visited Embraer's HQ in São José dos Campos, Brazil a few months ago.

It is high time for KLM do replace its old Fokker fleet.

Rgs,


User currently offlineFlySSC From United States of America, joined Aug 2003, 7428 posts, RR: 57
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 11039 times:

See :
http://www.airliners.net/discussions...general_aviation/read.main/3424279

May 2007, I was writing :

Following the outstanding order of B777 & A32X announced by AF-KLM CEO Jean-Cyril Spinetta, Air France should announce soon another order.

Just read it yesterday :

After the ERJ190 to replace the F100, Air France is now searching a replacement for the F70, as the retirement of the F70 will leave a gap in the seat capacity offered by its regional subsidiary Regional Airline, between the 50 seats of the EMB145 and the 100 seats of the ERJ190.

It is said in the article that AF is evaluating the ERJ170 and the Bombardier Dash Q-400 for a 70 seater.
The ERJ170 has the advantage to offer commonality with the rest of the fleet and particularly the ER190, while the Dash 8 Q-400, as a turboprop, is cheaper to operate.
The answer will be given soon ....

Personally, I think they will go for the ERJ170.

That could be a good indication for KLM future regional fleet renewal plan, as part of the rationalization of AF and KL fleet.


[Edited 2007-08-02 16:22:02]

User currently offlineOHLHD From Finland, joined Dec 2004, 3962 posts, RR: 25
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 6 days ago) and read 10974 times:

Having criticised the CRJ's recently I have to admit that the CRJ900 is a real great and comfortable aircraft. However I do believe that they will go for the EMB's.  Smile


How many frames are we talking about?


User currently offlineGreggarious From United States of America, joined Jul 2007, 361 posts, RR: 0
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 23 hours ago) and read 10883 times:

Quoting OHLHD (Reply 11):
How many frames are we talking about?

According to the Forbes article, at least 20 frames, +20 or so options. Exciting news!


User currently offlineHaggis79 From Germany, joined Jun 2006, 1096 posts, RR: 1
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 19 hours ago) and read 10473 times:

well, for AFs side if those planes are for Régional I guess the E-Jets are the most logical choice.... wouldn't make much sense to operate the CR7 and CR9 side-by-side with ER4s and E90s....


300 310 319/20/21 332/3 343 AT4/7 143 B19 732/3/4/5/G/8/9 742/4 752/3 763/4 77E/W CR2/7/9 D95 E45/70 F50 F70 100 M11 M90
User currently offlineAirbuster From Netherlands, joined Mar 2007, 454 posts, RR: 1
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 8 hours ago) and read 9556 times:

As mentioned before...the klm fokker replacemant is only applicable to the F100's...the F70 and 50 will remain in the fleet for at least 3 more years and KLC is receiving 5 ex Regional F70 in the near future.

The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity.

Also it is not yet sure if this will immediatly replace aircraft or just expand the exisiting fleet. Furthermore Regional already flys with the E-190 so my opinion is that they contacted Bombardier to get the Embrear deal at a better price.

rgds

AB



FLY FOKKER JET LINE!
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 9016 times:

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 14):
The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity.

It makes sense. As I said in my previous email, a KLM team visited Embraer HQ in Brazil recently. It is almost 100% finfished deal that it will be the E-190.

Rgs


User currently offlineColumba From Germany, joined Dec 2004, 7091 posts, RR: 4
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8923 times:

Quoting Kappel (Reply 5):
KLM previously stated that they would consider replacing the F70 with a turboprop, and given the speed of the Q400 it would be the perfect replacement of the F70 IMHO.

That would be awesome. The Q400 in KLM colors would look fantastic and it would be different from all theEjet, A32x and 737 type aircraft that you see nowadays on our airports.



It will forever be a McDonnell Douglas MD 80 , Boeing MD 80 sounds so wrong
User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8905 times:

Quoting Hardiwv (Reply 15):
It makes sense. As I said in my previous email, a KLM team visited Embraer HQ in Brazil recently. It is almost 100% finfished deal that it will be the E-190.

I think this is the most obvious, as Air France already operates Embraers and Bombardiers are basically inferior aircraft, nailed together 1950's style..

Allthough, aren't the embraers a lot noisier than the Fokkers? This is ofcourse a big issue for Schiphol..

Quoting Airbuster (Reply 14):
The word within the company is out that it will be the E-190 as the CRJ lacks cargo capacity

Which again underlines, there are no proper subtitutes for the Fokker-100 and Fokker-70 at the moment..


User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 8841 times:

Quoting FoxXray (Reply 1):
as KLM's and Fokkers are still in good shape

I don't know why this insistance about Fokkers supposedly in good shape....the last time I flew a KL Fokker 100 from AMS to TLS the armrest of my seat was hold with rubber tape!!! and I am NOT exagerating
also environment wise they are very noisy and the old generation RR engines drinks and pollutes more
not to mention dispatch problems: a friend of mine comutes between AMS and North of England and there are always problems
would be such a relief to see some Embraer



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
User currently offlineHardiwv From Brazil, joined Oct 2004, 8780 posts, RR: 49
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8806 times:

Quoting Varig md-11 (Reply 18):
I don't know why this insistance about Fokkers supposedly in good shape....the last time I flew a KL Fokker 100 from AMS to TLS the armrest of my seat was hold with rubber tape!!! and I am NOT exagerating
also environment wise they are very noisy and the old generation RR engines drinks and pollutes more
not to mention dispatch problems: a friend of mine comutes between AMS and North of England and there are always problems
would be such a relief to see some Embraer

Agree 100%...

Rgs,


User currently offlineLifelinerOne From Netherlands, joined Nov 2003, 1940 posts, RR: 8
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8646 times:

Quoting CTRL_ALT_DEL (Reply 4):
Rekkof lurking somewhere?

Negative. That case is closed.

Cheers!  wave 



Only Those Who Sleep Don't Make Mistakes
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 8464 times:

Actually KLM didn't planned to replace the F-100's so early, but due to lots op complaint, and some maintenance issues, they decided to go for the EMB-190, instead of waiting for a plane wich probably will never be build (rekkof). Not so long ago KLM say'd that they wanted to replace the F-50 first with either the Q-400 or ATR-72, but now they have given the F-100 the priority to be replaced first.

The KLC fleet will be either EMB-190's/Q-400's or EMB-190's/EMB-170's, as KLM already stated that they wanted to go to 2 types instead of 3 in the future

[Edited 2007-08-03 11:30:15]

User currently offlineBuyantUkhaa From Mongolia, joined May 2004, 2915 posts, RR: 3
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8405 times:

Today's Telegraaf says that the order will be for 40 E190s



(Dutch only) http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/6...t_40_nieuwe_cityhoppers.html?p=2,1



I scratch my head, therefore I am.
User currently offlineMauriceB From Netherlands, joined Aug 2004, 2491 posts, RR: 25
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8367 times:

Quote:
Today's Telegraaf says that the order will be for 40 E190s

that's what i sayd lol

[Edited 2007-08-03 11:39:50]

User currently offlineVarig md-11 From France, joined Jul 2000, 1605 posts, RR: 7
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 3 weeks 5 days 4 hours ago) and read 8270 times:

the order would allow KL to, quote de Telegraaf, "einde maken aan vertragingen en annuleringen van vluchten met ondermeer de Fokker 100"
meaning "put an end to all delayed and cancelled flights done with Fokker 100"

so indeed this is not just out of my mind that the Fokkers are worn out!

otherwise, I find it great that the AF/KL regional fleet is going to be common: again a new source of savings and of solid future for the group



AF TW AA NW DL UA CO BA U2 TP UX LH SK AZ MP KL SN VY HV LS SS TK SQ PC RG IW SE
25 Hardiwv : Better late than never... The E190s are an urgent addition to KLM fleet. Fantastic news! Rgs,
26 Cricket : Expected in mid-August!
27 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Hello! I have been asking around in the last few hours and got some information. The Fokker 100's are to be replaced first with the EMB-190. Maurice w
28 Clydenairways : How about the new Sukoi Jet, much newer technology than the EMB 190???
29 Lowecur : It's taken Embraer 3+ years to finally get the 170-190 avionic bugs somewhat ironed out. I think the dispatch rate is now starting to become viable.
30 HECA : When will we see these new EMB-190s arriving for KLC?
31 Post contains links Heavierthanair : G'day http://www.luchtvaartnieuws.nl/news/?id=21415 Per this site 20 Embraer jets were ordered, 10 each for AF Régional and for KLM Citypopper with o
32 Post contains links Heavierthanair : G'day, More details here: http://www.reuters.com/article/marke...sNews/idUKL0384340320070803?rpc=44 Quote: The order consists of six 75-seat E170 jets
33 LarSPL : first one august 2008, 10 will be phased in by 2010
34 Columba : Yay, I am hoping for the DHC 8, it is a great aircraft.
35 EA772LR : That looks great!
36 KL577 : Luchtvaartnieuws.nl is reporting that KLM Cityhopper (I guess citypopper was a typo?) will replace the 15 oldest F100s, with 10 E-190s and 5 F70s. So
37 Jwenting : And they've also stated that they want an all-jet fleet and do away with all turboprops. yah. The E190 is really a bit too big, especially to replace
38 Beaucaire : So that's the official end of all potential Rekkof revival rumours then....
39 Petertenthije : Air France Regional PH-... F70 11540 F-GLIS PH-... F70 11541 F-GLIT PH-... F70 11543 F-GLIU PH-... F70 11556 F-GLIV PH-... F70 11558 F-GLIX
40 Paneuropean : According to luchtvaartnieuws, KLC is also receiving 10 E 190's from AF regional. Either this is a mistake, or are they receiving those ten aircraft
41 Paneuropean : Sorry, I misread the sentence in the article. It's in Dutch, however it was confusing. It only considers the Fokkers
42 F27Friendship : I guess that finally puts that topic to rest..
43 Post contains images CRJ900 : AF regional carrier Brit Air is a big CRJ operator, including 15 x CRJ700. Brit Air is also one of the launch customers for the CRJ1000, with 8 on fi
44 Post contains links Hardiwv : Now is official: http://www.embraer.com.br/institucio...Com-VPC-Airfrance_klm_190-I-07.pdf 100% correct. I always treated it more as a "dream" than an
45 Post contains images LifelinerOne : Yeah, they said that at first. But, as I said they are seriously looking at the DHC-8-400. The DHC-8-400 will be able to operate on routes previously
46 F27Friendship : I talked to Rekkof's chief-engineer Rudi den Hartog (who also works for Fokker Services next to his Rekkof affiliation) some months ago and I believe
47 Post contains images Planemaker : I just want to let those Rekkof/Fokker fans who heaped abuse on me over the years for suggesting that the Rekkof project would never see the light of
48 Post contains links and images Keesje : I think this reflects the current situation. KLM and Lufthansa and many others looked at 100-120 seaters, looked at Doniers 728, Bomabardiers C-series
49 Planemaker : Just FYI, the Brazilian government did not fund any of the $1-billion E-jet development. It was all internal and private sector funds.
50 Hardiwv : SAME HERE! I was even called a "rural peasant" for stating some months ago that Rekkof/Fokker had NO chance of taking off again. 100% again, and ther
51 Keesje : Before 1994 Embraer was a state company. Originally Embraer was 51% controlled by the Brazilian government, the remainder held by private investors. W
52 Varig767 : There rises a question: The 15 F100's are replaced by 10 E-190's and 5 F70's from Regional. How can KLM replace 5 100-seaters by 5 70-seaters? Were lo
53 Hardiwv : Embraer is Brazil's no. 3 exporter with a share of only 2.4% of Brazil's total exports. Brazil's top exporters are no. 1 Petrobras (oil) with 8.1% of
54 Post contains images Varig md-11 : if you go that way, AF is replacing all its 744 by 773ER with a "loss" of 80 seats in the process yield management has wonders unknown to us
55 Kappel : Possibly, but don't forget that KL also has 9 options for the E190. If they pick those up, they will have replaced 15 F100's with 19 E190's. Of cours
56 Keesje : & on the upper side they have decided to order their first 737-700s.. so next year : F50, F70, Emb 190, F100, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, 767-300, A33
57 Dakota : Little correction: the last 767-300 left KLM earlier this year, so it wil be: F50, F70, Emb 190, F100, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900, A330-200, B777-200E
58 Post contains images Hardiwv : A taste of the future of KLM cityhopper: Rgs,
59 KL577 : I believe there will still be a considerable fleet of 733 and 734 next year, so: F50, F70, Emb 190, F100, 737-300, 737-400, 737-700, 737-800, 737-900
60 Keesje : & the 747-400ERF's they are in the same crew / maintenance / cargo planning. Then there is a cabin reconfiguration going on the 737, 747 and MD11 air
61 LarSPL : no.. KLC has a few spare F100's to coop with there reliability. Which will be reduntant when the EMB190's are phased in. the F70s have generally less
62 Mrocktor : Here is the final order and option breakdown: Air France Régional: 6 E170 + 4 E190 firm; 3 E170 + 6 E190 options. KLM Cityhopper: 10 E190 firm; 9 E19
63 Hardiwv : Great news and thanks for the information. Rgs
64 Post contains images Planemaker : Yes, unfortunately that is what happens when delusional fanatics are unable to face reality!
65 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Hope is one thing, but there's never any need to get so nasty about it! Incidentally, KLM has already operated Embraer series aircraft; they flew 6 o
66 Post contains images Planemaker : Nasty... I'm not being nast at all!!! You should read the Rekkof threads where I and others (Hardiwv, Mrocktor, et al) were repeatedly insulted just
67 Post contains images Wolbo : So your posts in this thread and the other KLM order thread are meant as some sort of payback for this? I have to say they do come across as rather n
68 Viscount724 : I believe KL577 is referring to the 10 737-700s recently ordered by KL (3 last December and 7 in June this year).
69 Post contains images PlymSpotter : Little misunderstanding Planemaker - I was not meaning you were being nasty - I was agreeing with you, that there is no reason to get nasty about the
70 Post contains images Planemaker : Sorry, but the people that were calling me names did not work for Rekkof and my post is just an acknowledgement that I was correct that Rekkof would
71 Post contains images Hardiwv : Planemaker, we were correct?!! Rgs,
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