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Will These Reporters Ever Learn? A380 V B787 Story  
User currently offlineAvianca707359B From Colombia, joined Oct 2005, 206 posts, RR: 0
Posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5208 times:

Take a look at this piece of brilliant writing:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/ma...07/08/03/et-a380-vs-dreamliner.xml

Fair use excepts:

"...the next generation of so-called superjumbos......both the European Airbus A380 and the American Boeing 787 Dreamliner..."
Since when is the 787 a Superjumbo?

"Airbus A380 - Total on order 178"
"Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"
WTF???? He compares the A380's total orders since launch to the B787's orders for 2007 only!

"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

"Main Innovations: Airbus A380 - very quiet on takeoff and landing"
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

Laughable. Simply laughable.


In Memory of HK-1402 "Sucre" & HK-1410 "Bolivar"
30 replies: All unread, showing first 25:
 
User currently offlineLumberton From United States of America, joined Jul 2005, 4708 posts, RR: 20
Reply 1, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5159 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"

I saw this earlier. It is absolutely pathetic what passes for journalism and "facts".



"When all is said and done, more will be said than done".
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 2, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5147 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380. It's bigger, but no cutting edge except for the amazing quietness for it's size (inside and out).

474 seats is laughable if you compare it to 210-250 seats for the 788. With the 474 seat product put into the 788, it would seat 180 pax max.

But I guess if Oprah calls the 767 a jumbo, then the slightly larger 788 is a super jumbo...  Wink



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineLegoguy From United Kingdom, joined Jun 2006, 3314 posts, RR: 39
Reply 3, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 7 hours ago) and read 5081 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
both the European Airbus A380 and the American Boeing 787 Dreamliner..."



Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Airbus A380 - Total on order 178"
"Boeing 787 Dreamliner - Total on order 235"

Perhap's he ment the 747-8 but ended up writing down and researching the wrong aircraft.



Can you say 'Beer Can' without sounding like a Jamaican saying 'Bacon'?
User currently offlineZvezda From Lithuania, joined Aug 2004, 10511 posts, RR: 64
Reply 4, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 5053 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
Since when is the 787 a Superjumbo?

Since when is anything other than a 747 a Jumbo?

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
He compares the A380's total orders since launch to the B787's orders for 2007 only!

No excuse for that error. That's just carelessness.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

This one is a little easier to forgive. It represents a lack of thoroughness, rather than abject carelessness.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):
"Main Innovations: Airbus A380 - very quiet on takeoff and landing"
And then what, very noisy during flight? This is what he considers the "Main Innovation" about the A380?

I would agree that reduced noise -- inflight as well as during takeoff and landing -- is the main advance of the WhaleJet. It's the feature I'm looking forward to. It will also be the lowest CASM aircraft for a few years -- beating the 777-300ER by about 15%.


User currently offlineZeke From Hong Kong, joined Dec 2006, 9229 posts, RR: 76
Reply 5, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4992 times:

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
Since when is anything other than a 747 a Jumbo?

Dictionary : "Jumbo jet - a very large jet plane", I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

Quoting Zvezda (Reply 4):
It will also be the lowest CASM aircraft for a few years -- beating the 777-300ER by about 15%.

Your friends at EK say 18-22%, would you settle for "about 20%" ?



We are addicted to our thoughts. We cannot change anything if we cannot change our thinking – Santosh Kalwar
User currently offlineGbfra From Germany, joined Sep 2006, 448 posts, RR: 0
Reply 6, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4972 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
Dictionary : "Jumbo jet - a very large jet plane", I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

No, not just about everyone. For most of us it is just the A380.



The fundamental things apply as time goes by
User currently offlineSailorOrion From Germany, joined Feb 2001, 2058 posts, RR: 6
Reply 7, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4959 times:

Quoting Gbfra (Reply 6):
For most of us it is just the A380.

Yes, and it's a "she" for me. Even in German.  Smile

SailorOrion


User currently offlineF27Friendship From Netherlands, joined Jul 2007, 1125 posts, RR: 5
Reply 8, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4911 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380.

an all composite wing-box (ofcourse boeing has taken it a lot further with a fully composite aircraft Big grin) , the use of fibre-laminate/metal hybrids (GLARE), the leading edgdes of the wing ( J-Nose )


User currently onlineScorpio From Belgium, joined Oct 2001, 5052 posts, RR: 44
Reply 9, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4901 times:

Quoting Zeke (Reply 5):
I guess just about everyone in the press calls a A380 THE Superjumbo...

...much to the obvious chagrin of the sole lonely soul who stubbornly keeps on trying, to no avail, to push for another nickname, and who stubbornly refuses to call it anything other than that nickname  Wink


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 10, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 6 hours ago) and read 4863 times:

Quoting Ikramerica (Reply 2):
Actually, I can't think of any other true innovation for the A380.

GLARE, electrohydraulic actuators, having T/R's on only half the engines.

Tom.


User currently offlineTexL1649 From United States of America, joined Aug 2007, 299 posts, RR: 0
Reply 11, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4811 times:

Not surprising work for the Telegraph.

User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 12, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4765 times:

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

yes, thats clearly an advancemet....

or a safety defect

or alot of other opinions on that little "fact"


User currently offlineSEPilot From United States of America, joined Dec 2006, 7109 posts, RR: 46
Reply 13, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 5 hours ago) and read 4719 times:

Some online articles include a link to contact the writer, but not the telegraph. I wanted to send a nastygram asking if the writer had ever been on an airliner, or even seen one up close. But they had no such link.


The problem with making things foolproof is that fools are so doggone ingenious...Dan Keebler
User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 14, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4518 times:

Quoting F27Friendship (Reply 8):
the use of fibre-laminate/metal hybrids (GLARE)

So advanced, that nobody is following suit. It's a cool concept, yes. But I was thinking more of things that will permanently impact the industry. Lower noise is one of those things.

From now on, no new model will be louder than an A380 (at least on the outside). But I also doubt any new model will be made with GLARE...  Wink

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

ROFL. So now a compromise to fit an oversized aircraft on current airfields is an innovation? That's such good spin, you might consider working in our 2008 election cycle for your favorite candidate!



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineDAYflyer From United States of America, joined Sep 2004, 3807 posts, RR: 3
Reply 15, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days 2 hours ago) and read 4513 times:

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):

Absolutely pathetic. Dont they check facts before they print this crap anymore?  devil 



One Nation Under God
User currently offlineIADCA From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 1367 posts, RR: 8
Reply 16, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 5 days ago) and read 4414 times:

I think the best part is that he does cite ANA as the launch customer for the 787, fails to include them in the customer list, and doesn't realize this or think why it might have happened that way. Then his editors fail to notice. I can excuse most of the other stuff as just being written by someone with little knowledge of aviation or the industry, but something as glaring as that error is hard to reconcile.

Quoting Avianca707359B (Thread starter):

"Number of passengers: Airbus A380 - up to 474 in test cabin. Boeing 787 Dreamliner - 210-250"
I guess the 787-3 or 787-9 don't count!

I don't think it's unreasonable to use 787-8 stats for the plane, as it's the only version that's actually been built right now. If he had cited seat counts from the proposed A380-900, all the Boeing homers would have flipped out about that plane not existing; I don't see the problem with his decision there.

Quoting Legoguy (Reply 3):
Perhap's he ment the 747-8 but ended up writing down and researching the wrong aircraft.

This is, sadly, the most likely explanation for this article.


User currently offlineTdscanuck From Canada, joined Jan 2006, 12709 posts, RR: 80
Reply 17, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 23 hours ago) and read 4334 times:

Quoting SEPilot (Reply 13):
Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines

ROFL. So now a compromise to fit an oversized aircraft on current airfields is an innovation?

The original design was no T/R's. It wasn't a compromise due to airfield size, it was an eminently sensible design choice. The regulators killed it. Very sad. T/R's are among the worst systems on any commercial aircraft.

Tom.


User currently offlineSocalfive From , joined Dec 1969, posts, RR:
Reply 18, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4204 times:

Well everybody has to keep something else in mind, this is but one example of how much the press cares about accuracy. How many other things get reported on that we all buy at first glance that we aren't as knowledgeable on? The press is a joke, especially the corporately controlled American Press.

User currently offlineIkramerica From United States of America, joined May 2005, 21580 posts, RR: 59
Reply 19, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 20 hours ago) and read 4177 times:

Quoting Socalfive (Reply 18):
The press is a joke, especially the corporately controlled American Press.

Why take a dig at the USA? Foreign press is often worse. The BBC is awful, and their own internal audit came to that conclusion, including their anti-US bias. Many other nations flat out censor their news and plant stories, far more than the USA administration is ever accused of.

The press is one of the most corrupt industries in the world, free or otherwise.



Of all the things to worry about... the Wookie has no pants.
User currently offlineStarlionblue From Greenland, joined Feb 2004, 17172 posts, RR: 66
Reply 20, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 19 hours ago) and read 4125 times:

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 10):
having T/R's on only half the engines.

Hardly an innovation. Wasn't this also the case on the VC-10?



"There are no stupid questions, but there are a lot of inquisitive idiots."
User currently offlineCobra27 From Slovenia, joined May 2001, 1033 posts, RR: 0
Reply 21, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4023 times:

Some reporters are pathetic. They are only happy when they have something to write. Last time I read our nuclear powerplant produced around 600 mW, not enough for a single lighbulb. And whole world energy consumption in a year was 40 MJ (around 1 liter of diesel). For aviation only well known magazine can be raliable

User currently offlineBringiton From United States of America, joined Sep 2006, 866 posts, RR: 0
Reply 22, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 16 hours ago) and read 4007 times:

Quoting IADCA (Reply 16):
don't think it's unreasonable to use 787-8 stats for the plane, as it's the only version that's actually been built right now. If he had cited seat counts from the proposed A380-900, all the Boeing homers would have flipped out about that plane not existing; I don't see the problem with his decision there.

Both the 787-9 and 787-3 are for sale and are being activly marketed and guarantees are being given to the customers , the designs have been frozen for the -9 (IIRC) therefore it cannot be compared to the A380-900 which hasnt EVEN BEEN LAUNCHED , DEFINED and is not being activly marketed .


User currently offlineXT6Wagon From United States of America, joined Feb 2007, 3432 posts, RR: 4
Reply 23, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3658 times:

Quoting Tdscanuck (Reply 17):
T/R's are among the worst systems on any commercial aircraft.

yes, safety devices suck.


User currently offlinePlaneHunter From Germany, joined Mar 2006, 6937 posts, RR: 77
Reply 24, posted (7 years 4 months 2 weeks 4 days 14 hours ago) and read 3579 times:

Sometimes I'm wondering how many guys slamming "the press" actually have a clue about what "the press" or "the media" means? Bashing "the press" after a bad article by one writer is as accurate as bashing the while aviation biz after one bad flight with one bad F/A. Also, I can only laugh about comments on "foreign press" by people who don't even have the language skills to read and rate "foreign press" articles. Get real.  Yeah sure


PH



Nothing's worse than flying the same reg twice!
25 Tdscanuck : The T/R isn't a safety system. You're not allowed to fly any aircraft with inoperative safety systems. T/R's are heavy, hard to build, incredibly exp
26 Post contains images Astuteman : Real-time in-flight diagnostic signalling? CFRP centre wing box? Complete CFRP tailcone structure, larger than a 787 section? 22% composite by weight
27 Bh4007 : Actually it is. Compared to 90% of British newspapers (think: tabloids!) the Telegraph is very well respected and trusted. It is fair to say their co
28 Flyabunch : Would it be a good idea to invite the members of the press who write aviation articles to join us here on A.net? Maybe a little exposure to all of us
29 Socalfive : I take a dig at the USA because I'm an American and very familiar with the American Press. Foreign press as bad or worse? Perhaps, I wouldn't argue t
30 Tdscanuck : RR has had counter-rotating spools for a long time. Tom.
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